Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Stock fit.

I hear quite a bit about how a stock that "fits" will reduce felt recoil(among other things). Could someone explain how this happens and how I go about figuring out what kind of stock "fits" me the best. Thanks.

Nebraska I hope some of the stock makers on this board will chime in and tell you because they can do a lot better job than I can but here goes.
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<br>A stock that fits you depends on what "you" are built like. You want a stock that is as close to straight behind the line of recoil as possible. If it isn't then when the rifle recoils it will rise and whack you in the cheek. You want a stock with as wide a butt as possible so the recoil is spread over as wide an area as possible, within reason of course. Length of course depends on how long your arms are and what type of clothes you are wearing. A rifle that fits in the summer may be too long when your wearing three sets of long johns and a parka. You want the stock long enough so that you don't have to pull your head back to use the sights and long enough so you don't have to strech your neck. A stock used strictly for open sights will be set up different than one for scope use.
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<br>There is lots more but maybe the boys that are good at the business will chime in.
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<br>BCR

Nebraska. There are three important measurements. Lenght of pull. Which is measured from the trigger to the center of the butt plate, Drop, which is the measurement from the centerlne of your sight to the top of the butt plate. I say from the centerline of the sight becasue it depends if you are using iron sights or scope. With scope you usually have a drop at the comb also, so that your check is in correct alignment with the scope, and varies by how high your scope is mounted, but must be low enough for the bolt to be pulled back. And pitch. Pitch is the angle that the butt plate is with the centerline of the barrel. It effects pointability . ie, how your rifle comes up on target.
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<br>The taller the person is, usually the more drop he needs and the longer the pull.
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<br>A lot of good gun shops have people that can measure you.
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<br>I do most of my guns myself, and pattern my rifles pitch after my shotguns, as you point a shotgun rather than sight it and if it is correct, your shotgun will shoot dead on.
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<br>Another thing that most rifle makers do not add is the cast on and cast off, which is determined if you are right or left handed. This is how much the stock bends to the right or left. On a right handed shooter, a stock is bent over to the right, looking from the back of the rifle. This puts the butt plate more in line with your shoulder and your eye more in line with the sights. I make mine so that the bottom of the butt plate is towed out a little more as your shoulder socket is not a straight vertical line. Some think this adds to the recoil not being pushed away from your face, but I don't find that to be true with me.
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<br>The comb should not be rising as it procedes back as it will lift into your face during recoil.
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<br>On a shotgun, you can set target up at 16 yds. and put a 1 " dot on it, fire three shots with just mounting the shotgun and shoot as soon as you have the dot acquired. Just point and shoot. You wil find that the three shots, if done correctly will all have the approximate same center of the pattern.
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<br>Since the butt plate on a shotgun is essentially your rear sight, you move the butt plate in the direction you want the center of the pattern to go. At 16 yds, it has been found that you move it 1/16th of an inch for every inch you want the pattern to move.
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<br>With thse guide lines, I have been able to make my rifle stocks much more pointable. ie When I bring it up, the scope is very close to the point of aim I want.
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<br>I trade this off vs the felt recoil which is more, as Boggy says,due to the stock being not as much in line with the recoil .
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<br>Length of pull is a personal decision as to what fits you best. A few of my rifles vary depending on where the scope is set . If it has a comb, your thumb is usually in front of the comb, but back fom the tang and inch or so, Without a comb, you want your thumb about 2-3 inches in front of your cheek.
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<br>Best bet is to buy a book on stock making, usually ther is a chapter on stock fit, and rule of thumb for basic stock dimensions and design, like thickenss of neck, placement of pistol grip and it's curve, , corect pitch etc.
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<br>I'm no professional but have made quite a few rifle and shotgun stcoks for myself and friends. Perhaps others can add to this or pont out some mistakes that I make.
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<br>Ther was a similar discussion here a few months ago. You might check past threads.
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Nebraska
<br>While I might not be able to get one to fit perfectly for another, the playing I have done with stocks for myself has given me a fair understanding of what makes a stock work. Boggy is mostly right, but perpetuates the most common misconception about stock length, which says it is a function of arm length... it isn't.
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<br>The stock comes up against the shoulder and the eye is supposed to naturally align itself with the sights... so where would arm length fit into the geometry of this triangle (sorry Boggy, no offense intended) My brother is 2 1/2" shorter than I, but his arms are unbelievably long at over 7' tip-to-tip. He uses a shorter stock than most because he is afflicted with the family's narrow shoulders. (He once was the AK state RF champ)
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<br>A big component of length-needed MUST be to eliminate the POSSIBILITY of taking a scope in the forehead during recoil, from any shooting position. Generally, the only way to truly get the fit right is with an adjustable stock. Adding to and cutting off an unused stock until you get the fit right is also easy enough to do.
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<br>Anything changed from the original set-up changes the geometry of the whole thing when you are looking for the perfect fit.
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<br>With scoped rifles the comb height is going to be just as high as it can be and still clear the bolt, so higher scope mounts will require the shooter to lift his head more, which moves it back, meaning the perfect stock would need to be shorter, for example.
<br>art
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Saddlesore
<br>I have actually been considering your thoughts from that earlier post about the difference in where we put the toe.
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<br>A stock-maker friend suggested that you try to assume a shooting position around a fixed corner, like a cabinet corner and see if you still believe your shoulder pocket is toed-out at the bottom. I gotta admit I have not shot a stock with a little extra cast-off at the bottom, and if I did, I likely would find differential cast makes a whole lot less difference than I thought. ;-)
<br>art

7 foot arms, how many toes does he have?
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<br>Just kidding, but I think it is one more shred of evidence that some of us are closer to our ancestors than others........

IIFID
<br>If we could get him to come down out of that tree we might be able to count toes, but so far, no luck! The amazing part is that he is just 6' 1 1/2" and has those arms. My arms are ridiculously long too, but no where near his... my knuckles miss the ground by at least an inch ;-P~~~
<br>art

The true feel of length of pull is affected by the pistol grip also if there is one. A stock may be a certain number from the trigger but the distance from the pistol grip is far more important. Our finger can adjust for quite a bit but our forearms can't stretch!
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<br>In general it's better for a stock to be shorter rather than longer in particular for a big game rifle. A long stock is slow to mount and clumsy to aim from anything other than easy positions.
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<br>Personal preference and shooting style matter a lot also along with your physical size.

Don makes a good point.
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<br>I'd like to use a try-stock,that incorporated an adjustable length betwixt the grip and the trigger,on top of the adjustment from buttpad to pistol grip.
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<br>David Tubb did a nice job of relaying his thoughts on the matter and the preferences which suited him,upon one of his videos. He had McMillan inlet the stocks about 3/8" of an inch forward,of their "usual" place(if I correctly recall the dimension he offered). That was to properly align his finger,from the grip to the trigger face. It made perfect sense and one could visualize the adjustment.
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<br>Stock fit has always been difficult for me to describe.
<br>It's sorta like trying to explain why the hell you prefer a certain pair of shoes,over everything else in the closet,to someone else who has different size feet. The subtle differences that aren't revealed readily to the eye,make hug differences. So goes stocks.
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<br>Grab hold of as many patterns as you can,choose the one that suits you best and try to hit your LOP on the head.....................

Don
<br>You lost me, Man! How does the forearm come into play when talking about how tight the grip is to the trigger?
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<br>The upper arm and forearm are two sides of an infinately adjustable triangle, hanging out in space.
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<br>I disagree 100% on the shorter vs. longer argument because of the VERY real possibility of taking an ocular in the ocular! LOP is also the easiest dimension to get correct, or at least close, to help compensate for all other dimension shortcomings.
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<br>A too-short stock will also deliver more felt recoil, IMO, than a too-long stock, not to mention dinging your face on your thumb.
<br>art

Sitka, I'l have to try that, But I don't shoot many elk frm around a cabinet. As you say, it probably doesn't make much difference. And I'm only talking about 1/8"here.
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<br>If I feel my shoulder socket in a natural position it is off vertical. If I bring my arm up to a mounted rifle position the muscle fills the gap more, but I can't feel if it is more vertical
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art, no offense taken and I think I understand what you are saying. You may be right. But I still say that if you got arms like a ape or little bitty stubby flapers it is going to have some effect on how long or short a stock you can hold comfortable. Unless you got an extra joint in there we don't know about.
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<br>BCR

Boggy
<br>The elbow is hanging out in space, bent at any angle needed to make the hand reach the grip. If you have longer than average arms your elbow simply hangs farther out. On the other hand, if you have "little stubby flappers" it is possible, I guess, that pulling your arm in to reach that trigger might affect the shoulder pocket, therefor the needed length... but it would be a really short-armed shooter. I'm not seeing where an extra joint would come in handy... on second thought, maybe I can think of one, but it doesn't involve shooting a long gun... ;-)
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<br>Muscle mass on the shoulder is far more important, IMO, as far as impacting the LOP goes.
<br>best to you
<br>art

Nebraska,
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<br>Thanks for posting this question. And thanks to the riflemen who responded to your question.
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Sitka,
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<br>I am not going to try to convince you but reread what Big Stick and I said.
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<br>I always figured it was just the LOP from the trigger and I have shortened many of my woods rifles about 1/2" so they suit me.
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<br>Then I happened to be looking at my old Sauer drilling. This gun has always fit me so well. I figured that the LOP was short as it was from another era. I measured it from the front trigger, which is the rifle trigger also, and it is standard! So I started looking closer by holding other rifles over the Sauer to compare them. It's the pistol grip thats shorter to the butt! It's made that way of course due to a compromise for the rear trigger.
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Don
<br>There is no disagreement that the grip shape and placement are important to stock fit. Your reference to the length of the forearm entering into the equation is what I was questioning. The grip is supposed to put your trigger finger in the right place and if your finger is too straight, trying to reach the trigger, or cramped, there are options for correcting the stock...
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<br>Knowing the Sauer drillings a bit, I'm guessing the drop on that stock is excessive for a scoped rifle stock and you find it fits. All drillings are a compromise due to the very nature of being both a shotgun and a rifle (though, I have seen drillings with 3 rifle barrels) and seldom are stocked to best advantage as a rifle stock. The swept back grip compromise is but one of many in the whole package. But as you say, it fits, so either you have a shape and size quite outside the normal range, or it really doesn't fit, but you accomodate nicely to it.
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<br>When you suggest you like a stock shorter, rather than longer, the natural assumption has to be that that is what fits you better and is therefore not "long", but just right???
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<br>I will grant that mounting a gun is not the same as shooting a gun and the shorter stock, made for mounting ease, might not be ideal for shooting. I am not afraid to take short-range running shots on big game, but if the nano-seconds difference between mounting a longer stock makes a difference, I'll likely pass on the shot anyway...
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<br>The issue of scope dings is just too scary to me to consider shortening a stock for anything but true short stock needs; mounting ease be damned. I also have more leeway because I use Leupolds almost exclusively... ;-)
<br>art
<br>no offense intended nor taken
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