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Campfire Regular
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Interesting to see another version of this add ![[Linked Image]](http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s174/take-down1899/1895%20Add%203_zps0tqtceei.jpg)
One in the hand is better than two in the bush
Graham
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Neat, that one is even signed by the artist.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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My plans for a future book include this sort of thing. David
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 985 |
They are both signed
But they are different signatures
The first add is to the left of the powder tin under the Indian
The second bottom left of the page
One in the hand is better than two in the bush
Graham
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The signature on Fug's color ad is "Gibbs & Wagstaff, N.Y.".
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Got "The Gun Report" of March, 1968 in with the article "New York Militia Rifle Trials of 1896" by Gilbert E. Newton. It's very impressive, actually. Joe, those quotes of yours are coming from this article. He credits Mrs. Arthur J. Savage and Mr. Ralph Merkner for their assistance, and gives several references including Roe S. Clark, Jr. - Asst. Service Manager of Savage Arms. I'm not sure who Ralph Merkner is (son in law?), but the other names are familiar. The biggest flaw with the article is that he shows pages from the testing requirements of the US Army trials in NY, apparently not knowing they were from the 1892 US trials and not the 1896 NY Guard trials. The testing requirements he quotes in the article appear to match what I've read in the articles though. But reading through the article fairly quickly, everything seems to agree with the newspaper articles more than one would expect. As to the provenance of the gun used, he says: The trials rifle had a government Krag barrel cut to 28 inches, and a specially made long receiver designed to handle the new .30-40 government cartridge. At that time, before the Savage plant was built at Utica, Model 1895 .303 Savage sporters were being made at the Marlin factory. Old Marlin records suggest that the trials rifle was also made by Marlin; however, contemporary accounts reported that the extra-long receiver was custom-made by Pratt & Whitney. A Savage carbine was offered for inspection toward the end of the trials. For those who like Savage info, keep an eye open for this magazine on eBay. It's worth picking up. I'll post more info from it soon.
Last edited by Calhoun; 12/15/16.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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Got "The Gun Report" of March, 1968 in with the article "New York Militia Rifle Trials of 1896" by Gilbert E. Newton. It's very impressive, actually. Joe, those quotes of yours are coming from this article. He credits Mrs. Arthur J. Savage and Mr. Ralph Merkner for their assistance, and gives several references including Roe S. Clark, Jr. - Asst. Service Manager of Savage Arms. I'm not sure who Ralph Merkner is (son in law?), but the other names are familiar. The biggest flaw with the article is that he shows pages from the testing requirements of the US Army trials in NY, apparently not knowing they were from the 1892 US trials and not the 1896 NY Guard trials. The testing requirements he quotes in the article appear to match what I've read in the articles though. But reading through the article fairly quickly, everything seems to agree with the newspaper articles more than one would expect. As to the provenance of the gun used, he says: The trials rifle had a government Krag barrel cut to 28 inches, and a specially made long receiver designed to handle the new .30-40 government cartridge. At that time, before the Savage plant was built at Utica, Model 1895 .303 Savage sporters were being made at the Marlin factory. Old Marlin records suggest that the trials rifle was also made by Marlin; however, contemporary accounts reported that the extra-long receiver was custom-made by Pratt & Whitney. A Savage carbine was offered for inspection toward the end of the trials. For those who like Savage info, keep an eye open for this magazine on eBay. It's worth picking up. I'll post more info from it soon. Very interesting! Thanks for posting.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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This "carbine" statement keeps popping up. Have we seen anything identifying if this was a .30-40 version or just a standard 1895?
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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This "carbine" statement keeps popping up. Have we seen anything identifying if this was a .30-40 version or just a standard 1895? The newspaper articles didn't say, but this article makes it sound like the standard 1895 carbine.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Oh, the trials led to massive controversy and accusations of collusion. Winchester and a couple other losers didn't take it well at all.
So the Governor cancelled the whole thing.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I think of Carbines as our SRC's, it's to bad none of our SRC's have lettered as a trial rifle........yet.
My trials rifle was restocked and the barrel was shortened, I'm thinking thats what the R special meant in my letter from JC.
Unless it was just restocked and that was what they meant by carbine and mine was an original barrel length at the trials? Always a mystery. Can't see it though being as the other trial rifles lettered had long barrels.
24 hour sarcastic S.O.B.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Joe, I'm sure they meant a saddle ring carbine since I remember them referring to the carbines as being for the cavalry.
But since the SRC was never turned over to the commission, but appears to simply have been carried down and displayed, I'm not sure it would letter.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Winchester's reaction to the selection of the Savage rifle reminds me of the way the Democrats are reacting to Trump's election.
Gov. Morton said he thought the U.S. Government would issue repeaters to the National Guard if they got called up for a national emergency. The U.S. Gov. did call up the N. Y. National guard and sent them to Cuba with their single shot black powder Springfields during the Spanish-American War. The New Yorkers suffered greatly at the hands of the Spanish who were armed with smokeless powder Mauser repeaters but the N.Y. state gov. saved $300,000 and Winchester did Savage some damage.
But that wasn't enough. Winchester created a consortium of U.S. ammo makers who refused to produce 303 Savage ammo. This resulted in Savage starting to make their own ammo in the early 1900's. David
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Actually, Savage started their ammunition production in 1897 or 1898 - I think 1898. Ran across a reference to them saying that they were creating an ammunition assembly area in their new factory they were building in Utica.
So I'm not sure if that "consortium" to not produce Savage ammo is correct or not. I've heard it mentioned before, but Savage was all set to produce their own as soon as they re-incorporated and built a factory. Would love to see a period source that commented on it.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I thought it was that the "consortium" would not sell them components for the manufacture of Savage ammo.
Savage...never say "never".
Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Rick, I said that off the top of my head. I'll have to look back in to my sources that I used for the book. According to page 22 of my book UMC made Savage ammo until 1900. Savage had to start producing their own ammo then because the Ammunition Manufacturers Association consisting of UMC, Winchester Repeating Arms Co., and the U.S. Cartridge Co.-refused to sell to Savage. This would be a quick rundown on what my reference said. But as we all know there is a lot of misinformation out there. David
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,737
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
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I thought it was that the "consortium" would not sell them components for the manufacture of Savage ammo. We know they were getting their powder the entire time from Europe.. so maybe the consortium wouldn't sell them brass or primers?
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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In reviewing this post for the changes to my book I think what I described as the "Savage factory pre-1899 military test rifle" (this is what the factory label called it) in Figs. 1-16 and 1-17 on page 13 of my book must definitely be the New York National Guard trials rifle. Considering all the information above in support of this fact is the further question if this is not the trials rifle what is it? Other information like Arthur Savage's letters concerning the Perris Special is that a prototype like this was extremely expensive. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that this rifle was produced for anything else as concrete as a trial for a military rifle. I don't think Savage spent thousands of dollars without a substantial goal for producing the rifle. As for the bolt Savage may have already been experimenting with the cocking indicator that was developed for the 1899. David
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
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