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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
[Linked Image]

Both of these are .45s. The Mod 2 holds 10 rounds and still weighs less than a Commander.

The Mod 2 is a bit thicker than a Commander but not much.


Either of these fits the LWT 45ACP EDC slot. The nod, on weight alone, goes to the 45 Shield, but with a good IWB holster, either is an easy all day carry.

[Linked Image]

The pic has the 6 round mag in the Shield for when maximum concealability is the goal. The 7 round +1 chambered equals the OM 1911s or the original GM capacity.

Last edited by Wildcatter264; 01/09/17.

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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


Can you explain how the difference between arrest or not has any bearing on firearms choices for carry?


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


I'll bet you are no fun at parties.


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I don't believe for a moment, that a 230 grain .45 HP sucks for defense purposes (or for offence either)
End of discussion.


Sam......

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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


I did not ask if you intend to place anyone under arrest. There is actually no difference in the need as I see it.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.

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If Jeff Cooper could come back he would kick the Yankee Marshall in the balls for saying anything bad about the 45 ACP


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I've watched exactly "1" of that guy's vids before and turned it off before he was done. It's not difficult to tell he's someone who probably becomes more eloquent with each beer.


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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I watched a few of TYM's youtube videos and even subscribed briefly. He isn't someone I have interest in listening to.


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There are some great choices of ammo for the .45. Corbon has a 165 gr. 1250fps @ 575ft lbs. energy, Liberty has a 78gr. 1900fps @ 600 ft. lbs. I'll take these over a 9mm any day but that too is just my opinion.









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Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.

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1911/45 is obsolete but I guess nobody this guy.

https://youtu.be/K2bXNg7ooAI


Last edited by SargeMO; 01/10/17.

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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by jimmyp
a 124 HST at 1200 out penetrates a 230HST at 950 in "wood, metal, etc.??
Yes it typically has greater penetration, but not by much. Not enough that I would ever feel like I was gaining some significant edge.


A little research on the internet of 9mm 124 & 147 gr. HST vs .45 230 gr. HST in ballistic gel yields the following avg. results:

9mm 124 gr. HST 15" penetration, .55" final expanded diameter
9mm 147 gr. HST 13" penetration, .63" final expanded diameter
.45 230 gr. HST 13" penetration, .88" final expanded diameter

All rounds meet the 12" to 18" penetration criteria set by the FBI for defensive use. So all rounds in the vitals = dead, dead & dead. Though 13" @ .88" diameter is a pretty big hole that is long enough to get to where it needs to go. Suck??? Hardly.


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Originally Posted by BamBam
Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.


Did any of the shots hit him in the pumpkin?

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that sure was a smokey round. I cannot recollect the 230 grain HST smokin like that but have not fired them in front of a camera to record the smoke. That one and the 230 grain Gold dot I like, but again I am all about equal opportunity so the 147 grain HST I carry a lot as well.


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Originally Posted by viking
Originally Posted by BamBam
Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.


Did any of the shots hit him in the pumpkin?


My brother, who spoke with the owner, shooter, asked him how many shots he fired he said five. He didn't ask him where he hit the guy. Three at the first guy, hit him twice two at the second guy. It looks like one shot possibly hit in the abdomen area? You can see him bend over slightly. , Second shot looks like chest, maybe face? If someone could Zoom in and slow the video down I'm sure it would give you a better perspective on where he got hit.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
that sure was a smokey round. I cannot recollect the 230 grain HST smokin like that but have not fired them in front of a camera to record the smoke. That one and the 230 grain Gold dot I like, but again I am all about equal opportunity so the 147 grain HST I carry a lot as well.


If you're talking about the video Sarge posted, I noticed that too, although maybe it's dust from bullets hitting that column? Sure looks like gun smoke though; I wondered if the guy was using cast target bullet handloads or something. Not that it matters, just seems odd to have that much smoke, unless it's dust.

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I thought maybe a fluorescent light got busted during the melee. Those things make a cloud that looks similar to what's seen in the vid.

I have been in a few small spaces where multiple shots were fired and I never saw anything quite like the 'smoke' depicted late in the video.


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That makes sense Sarge, I didn't think of a fluorescent light.

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