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#11725204 - 01/09/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: whelennut]  
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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


Can you explain how the difference between arrest or not has any bearing on firearms choices for carry?


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
CMG 300 BP

#11725276 - 01/09/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: whelennut]  
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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


I'll bet you are no fun at parties.


'What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak minded'

Retargument
N. 1. An argument characterized by excessive retardation.
2. A augment between two retards.
Internet Discussion Forums are a hotbed of Retargument.
#11725418 - 01/09/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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I don't believe for a moment, that a 230 grain .45 HP sucks for defense purposes (or for offence either)
End of discussion.


Sam......

#11725697 - 01/09/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: whelennut]  
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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by whelennut
Law enforcement has different needs than a Civilian with a carry permit.
We are taught that using a firearm is a last resort.
I can't imagine being in a situation where flat trajectory
is an advantage.
What I want is a way for me to protect myself from a guy with a knife or getting knocked down and kicked in the head.


Please explain the difference in need.

I have no interest in placing anyone under arrest.


I did not ask if you intend to place anyone under arrest. There is actually no difference in the need as I see it.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#11725765 - 01/09/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


Glocks remind me of an old German farm wife, kinda thick but will work night and day.
Alpha

#11726047 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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If Jeff Cooper could come back he would kick the Yankee Marshall in the balls for saying anything bad about the 45 ACP


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
#11726065 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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I've watched exactly "1" of that guy's vids before and turned it off before he was done. It's not difficult to tell he's someone who probably becomes more eloquent with each beer.


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
#11726207 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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I watched a few of TYM's youtube videos and even subscribed briefly. He isn't someone I have interest in listening to.

#11727404 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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There are some great choices of ammo for the .45. Corbon has a 165 gr. 1250fps @ 575ft lbs. energy, Liberty has a 78gr. 1900fps @ 600 ft. lbs. I'll take these over a 9mm any day but that too is just my opinion.









#11727442 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: viking]  
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Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.

Bravo

#11727505 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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1911/45 is obsolete but I guess nobody this guy.

https://youtu.be/K2bXNg7ooAI


Last edited by SargeMO; 01/10/17.

'What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak minded'

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2. A augment between two retards.
Internet Discussion Forums are a hotbed of Retargument.
#11727515 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by jimmyp
a 124 HST at 1200 out penetrates a 230HST at 950 in "wood, metal, etc.??
Yes it typically has greater penetration, but not by much. Not enough that I would ever feel like I was gaining some significant edge.


A little research on the internet of 9mm 124 & 147 gr. HST vs .45 230 gr. HST in ballistic gel yields the following avg. results:

9mm 124 gr. HST 15" penetration, .55" final expanded diameter
9mm 147 gr. HST 13" penetration, .63" final expanded diameter
.45 230 gr. HST 13" penetration, .88" final expanded diameter

All rounds meet the 12" to 18" penetration criteria set by the FBI for defensive use. So all rounds in the vitals = dead, dead & dead. Though 13" @ .88" diameter is a pretty big hole that is long enough to get to where it needs to go. Suck??? Hardly.



The more freedom - the better.
#11727866 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: BamBam]  
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Originally Posted by BamBam
Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.


Did any of the shots hit him in the pumpkin?


Glocks remind me of an old German farm wife, kinda thick but will work night and day.
#11727995 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: viking]  
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that sure was a smokey round. I cannot recollect the 230 grain HST smokin like that but have not fired them in front of a camera to record the smoke. That one and the 230 grain Gold dot I like, but again I am all about equal opportunity so the 147 grain HST I carry a lot as well.


#11728001 - 01/10/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: viking]  
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Originally Posted by viking
Originally Posted by BamBam
Originally Posted by viking
It would be really interesting to learn what load and where it hit, in that shooting video that Bristoe posted yesterday.


.45 Federal 230 grain HST, Colt lightweight commander, he was hit twice.


Did any of the shots hit him in the pumpkin?


My brother, who spoke with the owner, shooter, asked him how many shots he fired he said five. He didn't ask him where he hit the guy. Three at the first guy, hit him twice two at the second guy. It looks like one shot possibly hit in the abdomen area? You can see him bend over slightly. , Second shot looks like chest, maybe face? If someone could Zoom in and slow the video down I'm sure it would give you a better perspective on where he got hit.

#11728878 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
that sure was a smokey round. I cannot recollect the 230 grain HST smokin like that but have not fired them in front of a camera to record the smoke. That one and the 230 grain Gold dot I like, but again I am all about equal opportunity so the 147 grain HST I carry a lot as well.


If you're talking about the video Sarge posted, I noticed that too, although maybe it's dust from bullets hitting that column? Sure looks like gun smoke though; I wondered if the guy was using cast target bullet handloads or something. Not that it matters, just seems odd to have that much smoke, unless it's dust.

#11729006 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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I thought maybe a fluorescent light got busted during the melee. Those things make a cloud that looks similar to what's seen in the vid.

I have been in a few small spaces where multiple shots were fired and I never saw anything quite like the 'smoke' depicted late in the video.


'What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak minded'

Retargument
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2. A augment between two retards.
Internet Discussion Forums are a hotbed of Retargument.
#11729134 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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That makes sense Sarge, I didn't think of a fluorescent light.

#11729203 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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I sat in on a 'community college' academy firearms class with a couple of my recruits a few years ago. I did this because the dufus instructor kept 'adjusting' the sights on my deputies guns.

Got that fixed PDQ, but the high point of the day was when Instructor Assclown (who had never been anywhere but Hootervile) was trying to demonstrate 'skip-fire' with buckshot and failed to note an uneven seam in the concrete floor. It must have sheared 4-5 pellets because the fragments took out a big four-tube overhead light fixture about 10' in front of him. This big cloud of glowing pixie dust appeared with the sound of falling glass, and just sorta enveloped him. The sight of this combined with his coughing and trying to evade the cloud is forever burned in my memory.

I can't think about it, even today, without laughing a little.


'What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak minded'

Retargument
N. 1. An argument characterized by excessive retardation.
2. A augment between two retards.
Internet Discussion Forums are a hotbed of Retargument.
#11729307 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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Dust from the concussions. Not smoke.


"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
#11729458 - 01/11/17 Re: Why the .45 ACP "sucks" for self defense [Re: GunGeek]  
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Barrel length and placement matters, but this might help. Also, there may be some difference in how soon one stops with xyz, but it's hard to quantify, and one will never know, unless they have an event.........

I do feel ammo matters - a good bit.....as well as placement.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=4593

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