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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
The attitudes of hunters and game managers in the 60's was quite a bit different than it is today. Put his view in that context.

I found the book enjoyable as I could place it in historical context.


Probably so. Just rubbed me wrong, as noted much more like a preservationist, rather than conservationist.

Not like he enjoyed hunting at all, just seemed like survival to him.

Maybe your note will force me back to the book... But no rush, I think we probably have 15 more AK books here that I"ve not had time to read yet....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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One thing to remember is that he had no refrigeration of any kind except for the small little hole in the permafrost he used in the summer. A entire animal was just too much meat for him to keep. Unless you know it's going to stay cold enough, everything needs to get canned which is a colossal pain in the ass. He was able to scavenge enough from what was left behind to supplement himself that he didn't do much hunting.

Rost, to be fair, there's still plenty of wanton waste that goes on here. That big set of horns is awfully sudductive to many. I've smelled plenty of boats loaded with spoiled meat that are proudly displaying their trophies. You know that meat isn't going to make it back to their house. I sure wouldn't eat it. Another common occurrence, is the individual that harvests a smaller animal, then two days later, decides to take that bigger one that just stepped out. Since he's already got the meat from the first, he chucks the smaller rack in the brush and takes the bigger set leaving the meat behind. I assume they are betting F&G isn't going to compare the size of the quarters with the size of the antlers. When you live "out" the entire area is sort of like you're house. You only really share it about one month a year. Because of this, you do get a little possessive of it, and when you see it disrespected it ticks you off a little. I'd imagine that's why he's a bit critical of the hunters that come through.

Others may disagree, but I see it as our responsibility as hunters to call others out when they are doing things they shouldn't. In the long run its only going to hurt us if government and public (read liberal) pressure forces further restrictions.

The book of journal entries is an interesting read. I've been through it several times. Their were many assumptions made by Sam Kieth that Dick wasn't happy with. It made for a better story (to some) but it wasn't accurate. We have a family friend that knew Dick quite well and said he was a bit miffed about some of the things Sam wrote. Especially assumptions as to what his thoughts were. That's one reason Mr. Keith only did the one book. Dick wouldnt let him put words in his mouth again.

Just some food for thought. I apologize for being long winded.

Last edited by ykrvak; 01/27/17.

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I like the insight...but, 30 secs before reading this I ordered Sam Keith's book. Under five bucks, shipped, so no biggie.

In the first book that I just read Proenneke did notate that he finished the last portion of the ram he shot...9 months earlier.


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Good post.
No need for apology.


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It's still a good story. Just keep in mind, like with anything else, the author is going to put their slant on it. I'm not going to claim I know what his thoughts were, but I know he was annoyed by the amount of "artistic license" that was employed.

Enjoy it for what it is. As I said before, the journals were pretty much left unaltered, so it's straight from the horses mouth so to speak.


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Thanks for the added comments, it always helps to put it in perspective for sure.

I have not seen wanton waste very often, actually possibly never.

I don't get filling your tag, then shooting a bigger and wasting.

Its very true then, if all he saw were slobs that I"ve never seen, then I can get part of the attitude for sure. Guess I'll force myself to finish.
Carolyn did not come away the same as I did from the book but then women read differently than men do also.

Guess I'll find out in the coming years how much more of this that I witness up there.

I have seen one case where a bull was shot in the shoulders and the shoulder was left as bloodshot. Heck even my dog gets to eat too... we really try not to waste much. Hell I don't shoot shoulders just to avoid the meat loss, minimal as it would be anyway...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by ykrvak
One thing to remember is that he had no refrigeration of any kind except for the small little hole in the permafrost he used in the summer. A entire animal was just too much meat for him to keep. Unless you know it's going to stay cold enough, everything needs to get canned which is a colossal pain in the ass. He was able to scavenge enough from what was left behind to supplement himself that he didn't do much hunting.

Rost, to be fair, there's still plenty of wanton waste that goes on here. That big set of horns is awfully sudductive to many. I've smelled plenty of boats loaded with spoiled meat that are proudly displaying their trophies. You know that meat isn't going to make it back to their house. I sure wouldn't eat it. Another common occurrence, is the individual that harvests a smaller animal, then two days later, decides to take that bigger one that just stepped out. Since he's already got the meat from the first, he chucks the smaller rack in the brush and takes the bigger set leaving the meat behind. I assume they are betting F&G isn't going to compare the size of the quarters with the size of the antlers. When you live "out" the entire area is sort of like you're house. You only really share it about one month a year. Because of this, you do get a little possessive of it, and when you see it disrespected it ticks you off a little. I'd imagine that's why he's a bit critical of the hunters that come through.

Others may disagree, but I see it as our responsibility as hunters to call others out when they are doing things they shouldn't. In the long run its only going to hurt us if government and public (read liberal) pressure forces further restrictions.

The book of journal entries is an interesting read. I've been through it several times. Their were many assumptions made by Sam Kieth that Dick wasn't happy with. It made for a better story (to some) but it wasn't accurate. We have a family friend that knew Dick quite well and said he was a bit miffed about some of the things Sam wrote. Especially assumptions as to what his thoughts were. That's one reason Mr. Keith only did the one book. Dick wouldnt let him put words in his mouth again.

Just some food for thought. I apologize for being long winded.


Would like to see you post more often. Good insight.


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I think some of the others made a good point as well, that it was a different time and the resource wasn't looked at the same as it is now. I would imagine waste is much less common now than it was then.

I don't get shoulder shooters either. I've heard the arguments, but I'm still not convinced it's necessary as often as is claimed. I'm glad you're getting to make the move up here. We need more people of your mindset around.

Forgive me as I'm sure you've posted this elsewhere, what part of the state are you moving to?


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Thank you Old Toot, I try to contribute when I can, but I'm generally pretty recluse and don't join in. Typing on this iPad is a little like trying to pick up dimes with boxing gloves on which doesn't help either. 😀


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Originally Posted by rost495


...I have not seen wanton waste very often, actually possibly never....


Happens all of the time here in Texas with feral pigs. The only consolation is that other animals make quick work of any carcass left behind, and they actually need the meal more than the people pulling the trigger and leaving the meat behind. The worst is hearing "hunters" talk about intentionally gut shooting pigs. That type of thinking is for sociopaths, not hunters. They make me sick.

Also, lots of "hunters" bring home deer meat and never eat it. They end up feeding the freezer burned meat to dogs or just pitching it.

Deer meat is by far my favorite. A good tenderized venison cutlet is far preferable to a beef steak.

Thanks to the OP for posting this topic. I was not familiar with the works, but just ordered a couple. Looking forward to reading them.


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On the video, my wife was very impressed that he could carve a wooden spoon that looked so good!

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I think Dick thought of the animals as friends.
He had this saying on his wall.

Is it proper that wilderness
and it's creatures
should suffer, because we came.

I don't know if he penned this or It was just something
he believed in that he read.

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Spent 3 weeks floating and hunting the wild and scenic Chilikotratna River flowing out of Lower Twin Lakes. Learned of him from my pilot when we flew over his cabin. Every time I read his books or watch the documentary it takes me right back to that special place and time.

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Originally Posted by kid0917
On the video, my wife was very impressed that he could carve a wooden spoon that looked so good!


That was very good.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by budman5
I think Dick thought of the animals as friends.
He had this saying on his wall.

Is it proper that wilderness
and it's creatures
should suffer, because we came.

I don't know if he penned this or It was just something
he believed in that he read.


But do they suffer or are they better off.... and yes we have animal friends here too... but we eat animals every day....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by jeffbird
Originally Posted by rost495


...I have not seen wanton waste very often, actually possibly never....


Happens all of the time here in Texas with feral pigs. The only consolation is that other animals make quick work of any carcass left behind, and they actually need the meal more than the people pulling the trigger and leaving the meat behind. The worst is hearing "hunters" talk about intentionally gut shooting pigs. That type of thinking is for sociopaths, not hunters. They make me sick.

Also, lots of "hunters" bring home deer meat and never eat it. They end up feeding the freezer burned meat to dogs or just pitching it.

Deer meat is by far my favorite. A good tenderized venison cutlet is far preferable to a beef steak.

Thanks to the OP for posting this topic. I was not familiar with the works, but just ordered a couple. Looking forward to reading them.



Luckily the folks we choose to hang with are not like that. Unless the pig is absolutely not edible. You don't know that until you shoot it, and we have been able to learn to gauge by smell... We have done our very best to make the stinky ones edible. Have had no luck.

Of course what do you do with varmints? Coons I"ve eaten, not bad at all. Have not had much else, but shoot wolves and waste? Shoot coyotes and waste?

In there somewhere, is a fuzzy line thats hard to see at times.

Heck I wouldn't eat a deer that was unfit either....


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Quote
But do they suffer or are they better off....

I don't think Proenneke determined the animals to be friends, or anthropomorphic in any way. He internalized the beauty and balance of nature and did not like to see that altered or disturbed by man. And he probably didn't think hunting for any purpose had any merit in the scheme of things.

I don't know if he thought animals suffer, either as a part of nature or as a result of hunting. I, personally, do not believe the animal entity can conceptualize suffering. They're animals.


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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by jeffbird
Originally Posted by rost495


...I have not seen wanton waste very often, actually possibly never....


Happens all of the time here in Texas with feral pigs. The only consolation is that other animals make quick work of any carcass left behind, and they actually need the meal more than the people pulling the trigger and leaving the meat behind. The worst is hearing "hunters" talk about intentionally gut shooting pigs. That type of thinking is for sociopaths, not hunters. They make me sick.

Also, lots of "hunters" bring home deer meat and never eat it. They end up feeding the freezer burned meat to dogs or just pitching it.

Deer meat is by far my favorite. A good tenderized venison cutlet is far preferable to a beef steak.

Thanks to the OP for posting this topic. I was not familiar with the works, but just ordered a couple. Looking forward to reading them.



Luckily the folks we choose to hang with are not like that. Unless the pig is absolutely not edible. You don't know that until you shoot it, and we have been able to learn to gauge by smell... We have done our very best to make the stinky ones edible. Have had no luck.

Of course what do you do with varmints? Coons I"ve eaten, not bad at all. Have not had much else, but shoot wolves and waste? Shoot coyotes and waste?

In there somewhere, is a fuzzy line thats hard to see at times.

Heck I wouldn't eat a deer that was unfit either....


Flat out, cougar and lynx are two of the best meats out there. I have only shot two cougars and a fair number more lynx, but they will always be eaten. Beaver and muskrat are both very good in meaty stews.

Coons do not work nearly as well for me, but I have eaten it many times. Brown bears will not be tried again by me, but I love black bears.

But the point you have to stop even considering rationalization about eating critters you kill is when you get to stuff like sea otter... worst thing I have ever tried to eat!!! I would sooner eat raw possum guts!



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No doubt I love me some meat also.
If you look at the way Dick treated his birds...he was definitely fond of them, as a dog owner is fond of his favorite canine.

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Our dogs ahve always slept with us and do just about everything with us.

We feed the heck out of birds here at home.. Wife doesn't say antyhing about my seed/feed bill on deer, if I don't say anything about her bird seed bills. LOL. But she shoots starlings, grackles( usually over 200-300 a year) and some others as needed... its call conservation, not preservation.

But we still hunt.

I think the word preservationist is correct with him. And I just don't care for those folks. Just me though. YMMV.

On another note, I do believe there was a time when folks didn't care, shoot it for the wall and thats that..., that time is still now... its like thugs, you'll alwyas have a certain amount no matter how many die or get killed....



We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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