Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
#11787583 - 02/01/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704
rondrews Offline
Campfire Regular
rondrews  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 704
Northwest Wisconsin
Some dogs have a propensity for a little hard mouth. He may have been whacked by a wing or had a bird peck him. I think the more he retrieves the less the problem will occur. Don't use a shock collar for this problem, you might end up with a dog who won't pick up a bird. I used to use a collar on my GSP's but I found that they do more harm than good. I finally sold mine. Better off with a whistle.


Better to be over the hill than under it.
AIH 300 L
 
#11788751 - 02/01/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,686
supercrewd Offline
Campfire Tracker
supercrewd  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,686
Gunnison, CO
I am using the Dogtra and mostly have to use the pager function. I have delivered a few shocks after the pager use and a smart dog makes the connection. Labs on the other hand...

As mentioned above, only use the collar for negative actions, don't try to reinforce positives like holding the bird.

Big runners like the GSP would probably benefit for reinforcing "come" with the shock collar. Close hunters would get by with a check cord until perfect. Most people are too soft with the training, they quit when the dog is "pretty good" and not 100%. I am more guilty of that now as I age.

My Golden turned one recently, went to NE to celebrate. Our first hunt, two day trip to NE in Nov. Collar on but not really needed.
[Linked Image]

Of course she went into season in Jan so no trips out of town to hunt. Recent trip to the game farm, she flushed half the planted birds. Wanted to get her nose into more birds before end of the season.
[Linked Image]

My daughter cut school to join me and really made the day. I cut the hunt shorter as to spare her from one of "those" hunts with dad...
[Linked Image]

Last edited by supercrewd; 02/01/17.

NRA Life Member
#11793812 - 02/03/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Thanks for the advice fellas! I'm thinking I'll probably end up with a collar. I'm betting he takes to it quick. We use an invisible fence at home, so he's familiar with vibration/tone/shock.

I'll keep working with him on the fetch and hold. Though I really wish I had more birds around to put him on, I do get a kick out of watching him do his thing and the training.

s'crewd- Great pics! Looks like that dog is getting it figured out. Congrats.

#11805067 - 02/06/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Hank and I hunted two more pheasants on the preserve this past Saturday. It became much more of a "rodeo" than intended... First bird, he pointed and it flushed. I was slow getting the gun up as I was trying to take a picture of the point. Ended up missing it and it made it across a wetland. We'll get back to that bird.

Second bird, he points, but breaks a bit too early flushing the bird. I go to shoot, but get a click instead of a bang. I hadn't ejected my last spent shell. I mark the bird and we start that way. It landed in a CRP tree planting, which is much different cover than the mix of milo and warm season grasses they plant the birds in. AT this point, the bird has it's track shoes on... It took a while, but we finally get in pinned, flushed, and shot. He brought it mostly back to me and it was more than a touch tenderized... That said, Hank kept in search mode and didn't seem to waver on the task. I think the wind was just strong enough for him to keep getting whiff's of the bird that he never quit working the cover. I was pretty pleased with that part as mostly on these types of deals it's a very short search for birds.

Back to the first bird. We make it over to near where I had marked the first bird. Hank did great navigating the frozen wetland. I did too for the most part, until I found a few spots not quite frozen enough for my weight... It took him a bit to work out the scent, but eventually we got it worked out and the bird pointed, shot, and retrieved. This one was less 'tenderized'!

All in all, it turned out to a a productive training day. He had to work some scent trails out and to pin down a runner. I'd call it progress!

#11922144 - 03/23/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
The kids schedule has been making it tough for Hank and I to get in much bird work. On Tuesday, we headed out to the conservation club. He's always so full of energy to start with I've taken to getting him a run/walk in prior to putting any birds out. I've been using this time to work on recall and range. He generally does okay with both, but does tend to range farther than I'd like. If I felt more confident/comfortable with his pointing I don't think the range he wants to be at would be a problem, but we're not quite on the same page yet. After our walk, I put out a pigeon in a launcher and took him on a circuitous route downwind. Though he's not consistent with it, but he picked up the scent about 50 yards from the bird and quartered into the wind and locked up on point. He held it for a good couple of minutes as I made it a point to take my time getting up to him and flushing the bird. It was a good day.

Yesterday I took him back out to the club for more of the same. However, two other members were there and I scrapped my plans and worked with them. Though a bit earlier than normal, there are quite a few woodcock in this part of IN right now. We had 3 dogs out, all under 2yrs of age. In 90 minutes we put 13 woodcock in the air! Hank didn't really lock up and appeared to have no idea of how to back the other dogs points, but he hunted hard and got the scent of a new bird in his nose. I hope to get him back out there soon to see if he can figure out the woodcock on his own. Great experience, but I won't lie and say I was "happy" with how he did. As well as he's been pointing pigeons I was hoping he'd do a bit better. Maybe next time...

#11929525 - 03/26/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Saturday Hank and I did a "fun hunt trial" as hosted by the Indianapolis chapter of the Ruffed Grouse Society. Long story short, you and the dog are judged on your ability to find, point, shoot, and retrieve 2 pheasants in a 20min run. I'm not real sure on all the criteria, but they were not required to be steady to flush, but did need to be staunch to point. They only had to retrieve to within 6' of the handler. Basically, I looked at it as a fun day to meet some folks, get Hank a run in, and see some dogs work.

It was very windy on Saturday, so it seemed to be hit or miss on how well the dogs were finding the birds. This was making me a bit nervous as older, more experienced dogs were not finding their 2 birds in the allotted time. When it was our turn, we headed down the field, perpendicular to the wind. Shortly thereafter, Hank starts getting birdy and bang. Point! He made a short lunge and repointed. The bird was moving on him, but he held the second time. I flushed it and dropped it with one shot. He retrieved it to hand! We worked the rest of the field down and back the other way. He got birdy a few times, but never went on point. Mind you there had been 7 runs prior to this, so there had been a lot of birds planted, shot, and running around before we hit the field. Hank got about 80 yards out on the last loop through the field, started getting birdy and hit a point. I could tell he wasn't super sure as his tail was still wagging. As I closed the distance he locked up. I moved in to flush the bird and nothing. He repositioned slightly once I got between him and where he was pointing. Then I saw the hen scurrying through the grass. He held and she flushed. I tipped her with the first shot and again with the second. She lit in a tree at the woodline about 75yds away, then fell. Hank ran into the trees, found her and was on his way back with he flushed another bird! He dropped the bird he had and gave that hen chase. I was able to get him stopped, he came back to the dropped bird and brought it to me. Not quite to hand as once he got to me he spit it out at my feet. It was over 70ยบ at this time and he was panting pretty hard, but I was still a bit discouraged he didn't hang on to it for another 10 seconds.

We didn't come home with any hardware as a few of the things he did were not great for scoring (staunchness and dropping the bird), but I was tickled pink! He found the birds, pointed them (for the most part), I actually hit them, and he brought them to me. He did great quartering the field and covered the ground and cover very well. We're far from done, but it was a good show of how far he (we?) have come. Once home I celebrated with a beer or 3 and the boys made sure Hank got plenty of treats. It was a good day!

#11936990 - 03/29/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Hank is going to be introduced to an E/training collar soon, so I have a question. How much range is needed for training purposes? There is a model I am very interested in with a range of 1/2 mile, but they state that on flat ground they've had it work a bit farther. Reason I'm interested in this make/model is that I still use a launcher for birds and this one works with that launcher. Meaning one remote can work both the collar and the launcher.

So, you guys that have used E collars for pointing dogs, is 800yds or 1/2 mile enough range?

#11938199 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: rondrews]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,626
ribka Offline
Campfire Tracker
ribka  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,626
Originally Posted by rondrews
Some dogs have a propensity for a little hard mouth. He may have been whacked by a wing or had a bird peck him. I think the more he retrieves the less the problem will occur. Don't use a shock collar for this problem, you might end up with a dog who won't pick up a bird. I used to use a collar on my GSP's but I found that they do more harm than good. I finally sold mine. Better off with a whistle.


I trained with whistle and collar. The problem I encountered was when I hunted with other hunters and they used whistles or on publics areas and hunters in the general vicinity used whistles. Too confusing for the dog and I tried to find a whistle with a unique sound. I noticed pressured birds, especially pheasants and chukars, seemed to use dog whistle as a warning system and exit the area when they hear it. I like to hunt as quiet as possible and even limit voice commands.

I use a collar with beep function for mostly dog safety reasons

I just let the dog hunt and maybe make a few corrections a day or when I need her to heel when trying to enter an area walk a distance and not spook pressured birds.

I train my train and expect my dogs to hunt with me and not hunt for themselves. I expect the dog to know here I am and look back and hunt together.

A pet peeve of mine is hunting with professionally dogs who take off after released from truck and run ahead and keep busting birds. A lot of times I am watching guys' dogs busting birds a 100 or 200 yds ahead and they are not even paying attention to their dogs. Arrrhhhg!

Last edited by ribka; 03/30/17.
#11938219 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,626
ribka Offline
Campfire Tracker
ribka  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,626
I think 1/2 mile is ok with your breed if not a big ranging dog

I use 1 mile when I had gsp's and pointers

I recently went to a GPS collar

#11939497 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: ribka]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
ribka- Thanks for the advice/info. I've been given advice elsewhere on the GPS collar, but they are just more than I want to/can spend right now. I doubt Hank has ever been more than 1/2 mile from me when hunting, except for once. He took off after a jackrabbit in ND. laugh

I'll probably still try to use a whistle as well for a backup and to help with recall for my wife. Hank doesn't like to come to her as readily as he does for me.


#11939501 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Something I didn't mention in the previous post about the fun hunt trial, is that Hank did not munch on the retrieved birds. I have been playing more fetching games with bumpers, which may have helped. I was just happy he didn't munch the darn things. Will be shooting some pigeons over him this weekend, so we'll see if that good news continues.

#12113997 - 06/27/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Got in a bit of water work yesterday in anticipation of see how he does with live ducks in a couple of weeks. He LOVES the water and seems to almost prefer retrieving out of it than on land... Any who, I don't know who enjoyed the lesson more, the dog or my helpers! laugh

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

#12118328 - 06/29/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 62
J_D_Patrick Offline
Member
J_D_Patrick  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 62
North Carolina
good stuff,,,,I'm beginnging a similar journey with a new drahthaar,,,,,she's 13 weeks old and we are learning,,,,,,,I've been a dog man for 40+ years but always hounds and one lab,,,,,but now a new friend,,,,,

thanks for sharing your journey


Picture a combination right wing, libertarian, unabomber, nationalist who believes in reverent science and who, to his core, remembers the words he swore to defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.....so help me God
#12120118 - 06/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Good luck with the DD!! The ones I've been around are GREAT hunting dogs. Looks like I got bit by the photobucket monster. Thread is quite lame now without the pics...

#12132065 - 07/07/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,206
Azshooter Offline
Campfire Guide
Azshooter  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,206
Tucson, Az.
Enjoyed reading about the journey with your new dog. My wife convinced me to get a male GWP pup this Feb. Our 3 yr old GWP female took to him immediately. Now they play together and hunt the property. Looking forward to the quail opener this Oct. Lots of training to do in the meantime.
Snake avoidance training next saturday.

I would encourage you to get a tracking collar. I realize they are pricey but should you loose a dog, as I did before those collars were available, the agony of trying to find the dog makes the collar worth far more than any money you have to spend. Dealing with a lost dog for a few days will turn you inside out. This is something no one needs to endure any longer. Sure your dog won't wander off but all it takes is once! Heck he could fall into a mine shaft (as a friend's did in Montana) or some other strange situation. How would you find him?

It can be an invaluable tool as you will know if the dog is on point when out of sight and you won't encourage him to return via buzzer or whistle. In heavy cover you will know what the dog is doing and if he has suddenly come across a deer and is chasing it.

#12132359 - 07/07/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
AZ- Thanks for the kudos and good luck with the new pup! I'd love to get Hank to AZ to see if he could figure out quail there without getting ever sticker and spine in the country inside him. I've hunted Gambels on foot without a dog and Mearns with a guide. Quite the experiences, both of them!

#12135630 - 07/08/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 181
Mjm316 Offline
Member
Mjm316  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 181
Alaska
Dang I sure wish your pics would show up! Stupid photobucket!! Pudelpointer is on our short list

#12141836 - 07/12/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Last weekend was another training day. Had ordered a couple of ducks to get him some experience with them. First one we taped the wings up and let go on dry land. He flinched, but then caught on that what we wanted. Got 2 retrieves out of that bird... Next one just had the flight feathers plucked and set loose on the water. Took him a bit to catch up to him, but boy did he seem to like it!! Got 3 live retrieves from that bird...

Here's Hank bringing back his first water retrieved duck.
[Linked Image]Untitled

Last edited by pointer; 07/12/17.
#12168926 - 07/26/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 62
J_D_Patrick Offline
Member
J_D_Patrick  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 62
North Carolina
hank seems to be coming along great!


Picture a combination right wing, libertarian, unabomber, nationalist who believes in reverent science and who, to his core, remembers the words he swore to defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.....so help me God
#12169003 - 07/26/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: J_D_Patrick]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
pointer Online content
Campfire 'Bwana
pointer  Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11,249
Indiana
Originally Posted by J_D_Patrick
hank seems to be coming along great!
Thanks! I'm happy with his progress considering the limited time I have to work with him due mostly to kids activities. Lately we've been working on "steady" to flush with the bumpers in the yard. He's kinda getting it, but then will get too excited and take off before I can give the "fetch" command.

Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

AIH 160 1
Who's Online Now
494 registered members (1beaver_shooter, 1911a1, 243kid, 12344mag, 1minute, 61 invisible), 1,487 guests, and 672 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod









Copyright © 2000-2017 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.091s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0397 MB (Peak: 1.3512 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-09-19 18:55:54 UTC