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#11619857 - 11/29/16 Re: New dog journey... [Re: CrowRifle]  
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Originally Posted by CrowRifle
Very, very nice. If he don't want to give that bird up, blow in his ear. He will let go quick.
Thanks for that tip!!!

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#11623063 - 11/30/16 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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I've found you grab the area where the rear leg attaches to the body and pinch it. Hasbeen


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#11623834 - 11/30/16 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Originally Posted by pointer
Like I said, we got into birds! laugh
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Great looking lineup! The dogs and birds at least. grin Looks like you fellas had a great trip, congrats!

Last edited by ryoushi; 11/30/16.
#11624069 - 11/30/16 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Thanks! It was definitely an "ugly" dog crew...



I realize that I'm probably going to jinx Hank and I's progress, but last night was awesome! We didn't have much time at the conservation club as it gets dark so early due to the stupid time change, but we did get some work in. I took both boys with me and sent them and Hank on a walk to burn off some exuberance of all 3 while I laid out a drag trail with a dead pheasant. When Hank got back, I put him on the start and with a "dead bird" command he took off like a hound dog with his nose to the ground. Barely overran it came back found it and brought it back!

Next up we worked on points with the launcher and homing pigeons. He locked up great on all 5 birds and at much greater distances than normal and without me having to stop him with the check cord!! The last one I got mixed up on which clump of grass I hid the launcher and was getting a bit disappointed that he had overran it, but he locked up and sure enough he was right and I was not!

As I was putting stuff away I had my oldest lay out a track with the dead rooster. I told him to go about 100 steps and to leave it. I turn around to find him 70yds away doing zig zags through the grass! So much for following instructions... I got Hank and lined him out on the track and just waited. He followed it down of the hill and then I lost sight of him. Just as I started to see where he went, here it came charging up the hill with the rooster! I know these are small things, but it was probably the best night of training we've ever had.

Not sure if the conditions were just better than in the past or if the experience with the wild birds flipped a switch (I so hope this is the case!) but it was a fun night. I celebrated with a beer and he got a few extra treats once we got home.


#11762489 - 01/22/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Until Saturday, about all Hank's been up to is a day or so a week pointing pigeons in launchers. He's gotten to the point where he points them and just doesn't barge in and try to grab them. This Saturday, my schedule and the weather cooperated so him and I headed to a local preserve. I had 5 quail put out and marked. He found all 5 and had 3 good points. The other two he pointed but broke too early. Not sure if he's backpedaling or if the bird moving in front of him was just too enticing... smile Either way we were able to bring 4 of the 5 home. One flushed low and inline with him so I wasn't able to get a shot off. We tried our best, but couldn't turn it up later. All in all I was pretty happy with his finding and pointing of birds. Now the retrieving part... frown

He found all of them and started bringing them to me, like he's always done in the past. However, this time he started spitting them out before he got to me. Not sure why he decided to start doing that. He got to where he wouldn't even pick them back up! So, I gave him the sit command, placed the bird in his mouth made him hold it for a bit before giving him the Give command and taking the bird from him. Any suggestions/critiques of if this was the proper thing to do would be greatly appreciated!

I have a few pigeons in the freezer so I thawed one out and did some short retrieving drills in the yard on Sunday after a few bumper tosses. A few times with the pigeon and some treats as rewards and he started bringing it back to me and holding it until I gave the Give command. I'll keep up on this if you folks think this is a good fix.

Now to ask a question. When he does pick up a bird, he's crunching them a bit more than I'd like. Suggestions on how to start working on fixing that? He does also chew his bumpers a bit when retrieving them. The crunching didn't seem to be a big problem with pheasants, but with quail it was too much. Looking forward to hearing some suggestions.

Next Saturday we're going to be back at the same place but for a couple of roosters instead. Now that the days are getting longer I should have a bit more time to get him to the conservation club and we're going to start the process of working on being steady to flush. They have a training table/board setup there that was built for this, so we'll be starting that.

All in all it was a pretty good/fun day!
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#11782049 - 01/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Headed back to the preserve this past weekend. Found and pointed both birds well enough. Retrieved both mostly to hand. He did drop the hen a bit too early, but held on to the rooster until I took it from him. The hen did get chewed up more than I'd like. So, I do plan on doing the force fetch training, but will wait to start until March. Family schedule is crazy until then. Over all I'm happy with his progression. Just need more exposure to more birds...
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I have some Christmas money burning a hole in my pocket. Have considered getting an e-collar. How necessary do you guys find them? In your opinion would you consider them nearly essential for training/hunting?

#11782760 - 01/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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He is male. You will find when he is wanting to do what he wants to do, and not what you want to do, is when the collar will help.

Work on the retrieving and delivering to hand with all of his toys, all the time. "Tenderizing" should go away.


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#11785421 - 01/31/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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My first wirehair got worse as he aged about tenderizing roosters. We killed lots of them and I believe he was fed up with getting spurred and wacked by wings.

#11787284 - 01/31/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: supercrewd]  
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Originally Posted by supercrewd
He is male. You will find when he is wanting to do what he wants to do, and not what you want to do, is when the collar will help.

Work on the retrieving and delivering to hand with all of his toys, all the time. "Tenderizing" should go away.
Thanks for the advice. I do make a point to make him retrieve to hand anytime we are "playing". Maybe I'm not "playing" fetch with him enough. More often and more consistent is probably a good thing for the both of us. Thanks for the reminder.

Any recommendations on make/model of collars? Range needed for a pointing breed?

#11787583 - 01/31/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Some dogs have a propensity for a little hard mouth. He may have been whacked by a wing or had a bird peck him. I think the more he retrieves the less the problem will occur. Don't use a shock collar for this problem, you might end up with a dog who won't pick up a bird. I used to use a collar on my GSP's but I found that they do more harm than good. I finally sold mine. Better off with a whistle.


Better to be over the hill than under it.
Bravo

#11788751 - 02/01/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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I am using the Dogtra and mostly have to use the pager function. I have delivered a few shocks after the pager use and a smart dog makes the connection. Labs on the other hand...

As mentioned above, only use the collar for negative actions, don't try to reinforce positives like holding the bird.

Big runners like the GSP would probably benefit for reinforcing "come" with the shock collar. Close hunters would get by with a check cord until perfect. Most people are too soft with the training, they quit when the dog is "pretty good" and not 100%. I am more guilty of that now as I age.

My Golden turned one recently, went to NE to celebrate. Our first hunt, two day trip to NE in Nov. Collar on but not really needed.
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Of course she went into season in Jan so no trips out of town to hunt. Recent trip to the game farm, she flushed half the planted birds. Wanted to get her nose into more birds before end of the season.
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My daughter cut school to join me and really made the day. I cut the hunt shorter as to spare her from one of "those" hunts with dad...
[Linked Image]

Last edited by supercrewd; 02/01/17.

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#11793812 - 02/03/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Thanks for the advice fellas! I'm thinking I'll probably end up with a collar. I'm betting he takes to it quick. We use an invisible fence at home, so he's familiar with vibration/tone/shock.

I'll keep working with him on the fetch and hold. Though I really wish I had more birds around to put him on, I do get a kick out of watching him do his thing and the training.

s'crewd- Great pics! Looks like that dog is getting it figured out. Congrats.

#11805067 - 02/06/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Hank and I hunted two more pheasants on the preserve this past Saturday. It became much more of a "rodeo" than intended... First bird, he pointed and it flushed. I was slow getting the gun up as I was trying to take a picture of the point. Ended up missing it and it made it across a wetland. We'll get back to that bird.

Second bird, he points, but breaks a bit too early flushing the bird. I go to shoot, but get a click instead of a bang. I hadn't ejected my last spent shell. I mark the bird and we start that way. It landed in a CRP tree planting, which is much different cover than the mix of milo and warm season grasses they plant the birds in. AT this point, the bird has it's track shoes on... It took a while, but we finally get in pinned, flushed, and shot. He brought it mostly back to me and it was more than a touch tenderized... That said, Hank kept in search mode and didn't seem to waver on the task. I think the wind was just strong enough for him to keep getting whiff's of the bird that he never quit working the cover. I was pretty pleased with that part as mostly on these types of deals it's a very short search for birds.

Back to the first bird. We make it over to near where I had marked the first bird. Hank did great navigating the frozen wetland. I did too for the most part, until I found a few spots not quite frozen enough for my weight... It took him a bit to work out the scent, but eventually we got it worked out and the bird pointed, shot, and retrieved. This one was less 'tenderized'!

All in all, it turned out to a a productive training day. He had to work some scent trails out and to pin down a runner. I'd call it progress!

#11922144 - 03/23/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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The kids schedule has been making it tough for Hank and I to get in much bird work. On Tuesday, we headed out to the conservation club. He's always so full of energy to start with I've taken to getting him a run/walk in prior to putting any birds out. I've been using this time to work on recall and range. He generally does okay with both, but does tend to range farther than I'd like. If I felt more confident/comfortable with his pointing I don't think the range he wants to be at would be a problem, but we're not quite on the same page yet. After our walk, I put out a pigeon in a launcher and took him on a circuitous route downwind. Though he's not consistent with it, but he picked up the scent about 50 yards from the bird and quartered into the wind and locked up on point. He held it for a good couple of minutes as I made it a point to take my time getting up to him and flushing the bird. It was a good day.

Yesterday I took him back out to the club for more of the same. However, two other members were there and I scrapped my plans and worked with them. Though a bit earlier than normal, there are quite a few woodcock in this part of IN right now. We had 3 dogs out, all under 2yrs of age. In 90 minutes we put 13 woodcock in the air! Hank didn't really lock up and appeared to have no idea of how to back the other dogs points, but he hunted hard and got the scent of a new bird in his nose. I hope to get him back out there soon to see if he can figure out the woodcock on his own. Great experience, but I won't lie and say I was "happy" with how he did. As well as he's been pointing pigeons I was hoping he'd do a bit better. Maybe next time...

#11929525 - 03/26/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Saturday Hank and I did a "fun hunt trial" as hosted by the Indianapolis chapter of the Ruffed Grouse Society. Long story short, you and the dog are judged on your ability to find, point, shoot, and retrieve 2 pheasants in a 20min run. I'm not real sure on all the criteria, but they were not required to be steady to flush, but did need to be staunch to point. They only had to retrieve to within 6' of the handler. Basically, I looked at it as a fun day to meet some folks, get Hank a run in, and see some dogs work.

It was very windy on Saturday, so it seemed to be hit or miss on how well the dogs were finding the birds. This was making me a bit nervous as older, more experienced dogs were not finding their 2 birds in the allotted time. When it was our turn, we headed down the field, perpendicular to the wind. Shortly thereafter, Hank starts getting birdy and bang. Point! He made a short lunge and repointed. The bird was moving on him, but he held the second time. I flushed it and dropped it with one shot. He retrieved it to hand! We worked the rest of the field down and back the other way. He got birdy a few times, but never went on point. Mind you there had been 7 runs prior to this, so there had been a lot of birds planted, shot, and running around before we hit the field. Hank got about 80 yards out on the last loop through the field, started getting birdy and hit a point. I could tell he wasn't super sure as his tail was still wagging. As I closed the distance he locked up. I moved in to flush the bird and nothing. He repositioned slightly once I got between him and where he was pointing. Then I saw the hen scurrying through the grass. He held and she flushed. I tipped her with the first shot and again with the second. She lit in a tree at the woodline about 75yds away, then fell. Hank ran into the trees, found her and was on his way back with he flushed another bird! He dropped the bird he had and gave that hen chase. I was able to get him stopped, he came back to the dropped bird and brought it to me. Not quite to hand as once he got to me he spit it out at my feet. It was over 70ยบ at this time and he was panting pretty hard, but I was still a bit discouraged he didn't hang on to it for another 10 seconds.

We didn't come home with any hardware as a few of the things he did were not great for scoring (staunchness and dropping the bird), but I was tickled pink! He found the birds, pointed them (for the most part), I actually hit them, and he brought them to me. He did great quartering the field and covered the ground and cover very well. We're far from done, but it was a good show of how far he (we?) have come. Once home I celebrated with a beer or 3 and the boys made sure Hank got plenty of treats. It was a good day!

#11936990 - 03/29/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Hank is going to be introduced to an E/training collar soon, so I have a question. How much range is needed for training purposes? There is a model I am very interested in with a range of 1/2 mile, but they state that on flat ground they've had it work a bit farther. Reason I'm interested in this make/model is that I still use a launcher for birds and this one works with that launcher. Meaning one remote can work both the collar and the launcher.

So, you guys that have used E collars for pointing dogs, is 800yds or 1/2 mile enough range?

#11938199 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: rondrews]  
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ribka Online sleepy
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Originally Posted by rondrews
Some dogs have a propensity for a little hard mouth. He may have been whacked by a wing or had a bird peck him. I think the more he retrieves the less the problem will occur. Don't use a shock collar for this problem, you might end up with a dog who won't pick up a bird. I used to use a collar on my GSP's but I found that they do more harm than good. I finally sold mine. Better off with a whistle.


I trained with whistle and collar. The problem I encountered was when I hunted with other hunters and they used whistles or on publics areas and hunters in the general vicinity used whistles. Too confusing for the dog and I tried to find a whistle with a unique sound. I noticed pressured birds, especially pheasants and chukars, seemed to use dog whistle as a warning system and exit the area when they hear it. I like to hunt as quiet as possible and even limit voice commands.

I use a collar with beep function for mostly dog safety reasons

I just let the dog hunt and maybe make a few corrections a day or when I need her to heel when trying to enter an area walk a distance and not spook pressured birds.

I train my train and expect my dogs to hunt with me and not hunt for themselves. I expect the dog to know here I am and look back and hunt together.

A pet peeve of mine is hunting with professionally dogs who take off after released from truck and run ahead and keep busting birds. A lot of times I am watching guys' dogs busting birds a 100 or 200 yds ahead and they are not even paying attention to their dogs. Arrrhhhg!

Last edited by ribka; 03/30/17.
#11938219 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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ribka Online sleepy
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I think 1/2 mile is ok with your breed if not a big ranging dog

I use 1 mile when I had gsp's and pointers

I recently went to a GPS collar

#11939497 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: ribka]  
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ribka- Thanks for the advice/info. I've been given advice elsewhere on the GPS collar, but they are just more than I want to/can spend right now. I doubt Hank has ever been more than 1/2 mile from me when hunting, except for once. He took off after a jackrabbit in ND. laugh

I'll probably still try to use a whistle as well for a backup and to help with recall for my wife. Hank doesn't like to come to her as readily as he does for me.


#11939501 - 03/30/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Something I didn't mention in the previous post about the fun hunt trial, is that Hank did not munch on the retrieved birds. I have been playing more fetching games with bumpers, which may have helped. I was just happy he didn't munch the darn things. Will be shooting some pigeons over him this weekend, so we'll see if that good news continues.

#12113997 - 06/27/17 Re: New dog journey... [Re: pointer]  
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Got in a bit of water work yesterday in anticipation of see how he does with live ducks in a couple of weeks. He LOVES the water and seems to almost prefer retrieving out of it than on land... Any who, I don't know who enjoyed the lesson more, the dog or my helpers! laugh

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