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#11809517 - 02/08/17 FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING"  
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RickBin Offline
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Gents:

Thanks to John Barsness (Mule Deer) for his latest exclusive Campfire column, "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING."

Please click the link to access the article, and use this thread to ask John questions. I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks again, John!


Rick Bin
24hourcampfire.com
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#11822419 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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Leonten Offline
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Back in the 1970s I asked Gunsmith how much should a scope or a pair of binoculars cost? His answer back then was good advice. And it still holds true today. He said "A scope should cost as much is your rifle. But your binoculars should cost twice as much as the rifle."



If you reload, there's no such thing as an obsolete cartridge.

Once you render an opinion, you open yourself up to criticism.
#11822425 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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AnsonRogers Offline
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Very interesting article as usual, JB. I know you can't say but would sure like to hear which inexpensive scopes were found to be reliable. I don't shoot heavy kickers and use mostly fixed powers but I'd still like to know.

#11822945 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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John_Boy Offline
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To know what John recommends note what he buys the most of here.
I use old m8 Leupold with smaller ocular lenses. Less weight, less forces on the scope to cause issues. Next favorite due to hunting a farm with a mix of woods and pasture is a 2-7x 33mm ( or a 1.5-5x ). Again, less weight. Those big 50mm are as useless for me as bugs on a bumper.


Acts 5:42 "And everyday, in the church and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."
#11823652 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: AnsonRogers]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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Along with fixed-power Leupolds, I've also purchased some SWFA and Weaver fixed-powers off the Campfire Classifieds. But I don't get all my scopes on the Campfire, either, obtaining some directly from manufacturers. Sometimes they're test scopes that performed so well I decided I needed them. Have reviewed those in several magazine articles, usually after they held up well when (per usual) I mounted them on a hard-kicking rifle and they not only held up but their adjustments A good example would be the Weaver 3-15x Super Slam that arrived for a review several years ago. I've been twirling the adjustments up and down enough over those years that I just reviewed it again in another magazine, because it continues to work precisely.

Have also published several magazine articles on "bargain" scopes over the years, and am thinking of doing another specifically on scopes have have held up well despite considerably turret-twisting. They're not always the brands people would guess, based on what's posted on the Campfire. In fact am going to be heavily testing one of these during the next few months, to see if it keeps going.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11823700 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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donsm70 Offline
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Good article John;

I am probably guilty on some counts, but I have neither the need nor the skill to shoot at an animal over 300 yards away.

donsm70


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#11823924 - 02/13/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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Bill Poole Offline
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Now that CMP service rifle competition permits a low power, small objective scope on a low recoiling rifle. We need a scope with elevation and windage knobs that can tolerate literally dozens of adjustments per day, likely a click or 4 of windage with every shot in the slow fire stages. Run the elevation up from 200 to 600 yds and back down every match.

optics don't have to be great, we don't have to count antler tines at 2 minutes before dark... just find that 36" black against a 6' piece of cardboard at 600yds.

oh, and that $3000 model is just out of reach for most of us regulars and nearly all of the new competitors we'd like to get into the sport.

Poole


#11824410 - 02/14/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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PatagoniaHunter Offline
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BARILOCHE CITY, RIO NEGRO PROV...
Hello MD,

Great article!!! Very interesting point you are writing about!
I am convinced many midprices scopes of today, and even old, very old (40 plus years)scopes are, at least, as good in their mechanics and even optics, as the expensives ones...
I wait for more "bargain" scopes articles!

PH

#11824462 - 02/14/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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PatagoniaHunter Offline
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BARILOCHE CITY, RIO NEGRO PROV...
And, by the way, I did not tested neither a fraction of the scopes you test in one year. But my "scope test rifle" is a Wincheste 70 pre-64 .375 H&H. I have shot the rifle more than 1000 full power rounds since my purchase in 1992. With a few scopes, more than 100 rounds with the less used one. They have been: Redfield Bear Cub 4x32,made in the sixties; Weaver K 2,5 Micro-Track from the eighties, Zeiss Diatal ZA 4x32 from the late eighties, Schmidt&Bender 1,25-4x20 from the nineties, and Zeiss Victory Diavari 1,5-6x42 from the early 2000.
Of course I did not dial up and down any of them; zero dead on at 200 meters and thats it!
And the ONLY issue was the broken thin hair of the wire reticle in the S&B after 300 rounds. Was send the scope to S&B, where they put an optical reticle and for another 300 rounds they worked perfectly. I sold it to a friend who use it in a 30-06 without any trouble.
Another friend has a Burris Fullfield II 2,5-7x35 in his Winchester 70 G-series push feed .375. He shoots it a lot, mainly with 300 grs bullets, factory and handloads (because he said his rifle groups are better with 300 grs....). I don´t know exactly how many rounds he has made but more than 200 for sure. The scope is still in one piece without any simptom of malfunction.

As I said, VERY INTERESTING matter this you have initiated with your article.

Thanks!

PH

#11825938 - 02/14/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: Bill Poole]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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Bill,

Thanks for your comments. Have heard something about that from more than one scope manufacturer.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11825947 - 02/14/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: PatagoniaHunter]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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Patagonia Hunter,

Thanks for posting your results! I've also had great luck with Fullfield II's, including that 2.5-7x35. Put one on a .300 Weatherby and it held up great for several years.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11827520 - 02/15/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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Azar Offline
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John,

Do you class the Fullfield E1 with the Fullfield II's? The only difference I am aware of is the change in reticle and power adjustment ring. But it's possible there are other changes that I'm not aware of that have lessened it's reliability compared to the FFII's?

Thanks.


Shoot as if your first shot is the only shot you'll get.
#11827989 - 02/15/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: Azar]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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To be honest, I don't know for sure. But would assume Burris left the interior stuff basically the same, because it wouldn't make any sense to fix something that wasn't broken. Not that some companies don't do that, but my experiences with Burris indicate they're not one.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11830120 - 02/16/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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jonesmd4 Offline
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John,

Very nice article. I don't twirl elevation turrets or shoot (for the most part) really hard kicking calibers. Low to medium power variable and fixed scopes from Leupold, Burris, and Weaver have worked well for me. I have a Burris Fullfield II 1.75 x 5 that has seen hundreds of max 30-06 rounds, then mounted on a 45-70 Contender carbine barrel (no fun and since disposed of), and is now doing duty on a 9.3 x 62. Probably close to a thousand rounds with no issue. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it fifteen plus years ago, but I think is was around $200.

At gun shows I look for older Bushnell scopes; the Japanese made ones that used Bausch and Lomb lenses. I've bought them for as little as $15 to $25. They are really bright and sharp and generally hold up well, even on muzzle loaders and shotguns. They are a much better option that the blister pack scopes from the big box store.

Mike


Member:
NRA
Ohio Gun Collectors Association
#11844834 - 02/21/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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RinB Offline
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John,
I am familiar with the gunmaker to whom you refer in your article. He had several hunting scopes. They were kept in his tool chest. He would mount and zero them on whatever rifle he planned to hunt with and removed and placed back in storage until the next trip. He didn't put any more shots than needed on those scopes.
The toughest scopes I have used were the older Leupold Compact 3-9's. They were the only scopes to survive my 7.5# 375 Improved.


"None of this is Rocket Surgery...."
#11844910 - 02/21/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RinB]  
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hillbillybear Offline
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Very nice article. Count me as another fan of the Burris FFII and fixed power Weaver scopes.

I have several that have given years of yeoman service on both light and heavy recoiling rifles.


Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.

Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers

“If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.” Ronald Reagan.

#11857672 - 02/26/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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John,
nice article. Always enjoy the topic. On your guidance quite a few years back I bought a Full Field II for a good friend who I owed a favor. As you described in your article, he mounted it on his deadly accurate model 700 30-06 and sighted in. Very nice groups and the scope was all it was described to be.
In the closet it sits waiting to get out.......
AR's and other more exotic caliber stuff have made trips to hunt all kinds of game and paper targets, with many failures of other scopes.
Im always fast to remind of the Ol Reliable sitting in the closet......
Always grateful for good optics when far from home on a trip. Esp. now that the 100 yd steel gong is getting blurry with the Lyman Peep on the Marlin.


I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
#11857719 - 02/26/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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smithrjd Online content
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JB,
Is the Burris Signature Safari still among the standing?

#11859570 - 02/27/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: smithrjd]  
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It was until I sold it a couple years ago. Great scope, but for some reason manufacturers prefer writers to mention current-production scopes, and that model of the Signature Safari was obsolete.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11865559 - 03/01/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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Dimner Offline
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I really liked the article, has really gotten me thinking about the scope choices I have made in the past and the next scope I will be buying.

I'm a long time lurker, but this article motivated me to finally sign up and ask a question.


It may not be the best of methods, but I commonly switch scopes between rifles. Reason for this is that I generally prefer aperture sights on my rifles for hunting. The scope is only used for load development. So I have a 4-12x40mm scope that hops from one rifle to another for load development. So I'm often re-zeroing the scope quite often. I shoot both jacketed and cast bullets, so I'm also adjusting turrets based on the differences in the POI.

Well, a couple weeks ago, that scope gave up the ghost and is having parallax and Adjustable Objective issues. So I'm in the market for a new scope. I had a few brands in mind. But now after reading your article, I'm thinking about my purchase in a different way.

What brands would be able to stand up to frequent scope swaps and re-zeroing? I wont be shooting anything that recoils more than a 30-06. My new way of thinking led me to believe that I can be less worried about super bright glass in the early morning and at dusk. Weight isn't a concern. Really it just needs:

good magnification, 12x is enough. I shoot at 100 yards for load development
stand up to frequent trips to the range
stand up to frequent mounting
stand up to frequent turret adjustments
Cost 300 bucks or less.

Thoughts?


#11866109 - 03/01/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: Dimner]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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Mule Deer  Offline
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Hmm. Might be a tall order in a $300 variable, since the obvious problem is frequent dialing. If you'd be happy with fixed-power, the SWFA SS scopes would work fine and make the $300 limit. But their variables cost more than that.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#11867689 - 03/02/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Dimner Offline
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Hmm. Might be a tall order in a $300 variable, since the obvious problem is frequent dialing. If you'd be happy with fixed-power, the SWFA SS scopes would work fine and make the $300 limit. But their variables cost more than that.


Thanks for the suggestion, I'm just fine with a fixed power. I will give SWFA a look. I don't know much about them so it will be fun to learn.

I also would be just fine going with a used and/or vintage scope if you know of any that would meet my needs.

Thanks again. smile

#11874918 - 03/04/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: RickBin]  
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Great article John.

If I may ask a question? I normally run a Leupold FX-II 4x but have an opportunity to purchase a NIB Zeiss Conquest 4x. Do you feel the Zeiss would offer any greater reliability? I know it weights more and often wonder if it was better built for it?

Best,
Ryan


The best plan is to invest in one or two good and reliable rifles, stick with them, and spend the rest of your spare time working out, planning hunts, and hunting. The rifle preoccupation is an inane, resource-draining dead-end............
Allen Day
#11874965 - 03/04/17 Re: FEBRUARY - Ask John Barsness Questions About "REALITIES OF RIFLESCOPE MANUFACTURING" [Re: p3t3rsn]  
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Mule Deer Offline
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No, I wouldn't say the Conquest would be any tougher.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
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