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I think some of the others have hit it on the head. "Long range" means different things to different people depending on their skill level. I too have seen people who don't have any business shooting at game at even 50 yards, such as the fellow in WY on an antelope hunt who couldn't hit a doe standing broadside at about 50 yards resting his rifle on a truck hood. He missed shot after shot at game, thankfully not wounding any by some miracle. His shooting form was terrible and I wonder if his scope was even zeroed.
I have personally taken game out to 500 yards. Most of my deer, however, have been shot at 50-80 yards and I have also taken 20 or so deer with a bow. I don't feel that I should have to justify my taking of a "long" shot when I am sure of the range and the trajectory of my rifle and am in a steady shooting position.
Three years ago I passed up a shot at what would have been the largest buck I have ever taken, an 8 pt whitetail that probably would score around 140". A magnificent mature animal. He was standing broadside at 275 yards but some high grass prevented me from assuming a steady prone or sitting position (believe me I tried!). My crosshairs wobbled on and off him and I just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger and risk wounding him. I had to watch him just walk off. Under those circumstances 275 yards was way too far for me to make a precise shot. Had I been in prone position with no grass in the way I could have almost certainly placed my bullet within an inch or two of my aiming point at that distance.
I guess my point is that we should all try to be as proficient with our equipment as possible so that we can take advantage of the shot opportunities that our hunting skill such as it is presents us. Some guys have no business taking a 50 yard shot and some guys can make a sure shot at 500 yards nearly 100% of the time. Which one is the unethical shot? I say to each his own, just know your limitations and be responsible.
I hope everyone has a fun and successful hunting season this year.


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458,

Good question that relates to my earlier "grey area" statement. Again, my gripe comes down to the bragging about the long distance thing. Having a forum titled Long Range Hunting might initiate some dufuss that has no business taking the shot to attempt the shot in the hopes that he too could post a thread and join the ranks of the Great White Long Distance Hunter, when all he's really doing is sending a bullet downrange....big f'ing whoop-dee-doo I say.


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My point exactly, Make sure you tell us of your trophy. The score of his horns matters more than the method taken.

And let me get this straight. The sport/challenge of long range shoot/hunting is you might miss? So your trophy may get away or get wounded? Dont we owe it to the game we hunt as ethical hunters to strive to make shots we are sure will cleanly kill? But wait, that would take the challenge/sport out of the long range "hunt".


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Only if it was free-ranging inside a high fence.


First of all the shot was 277 not 500. Secondly, I really don't believe that (other than a water hole) your average shot on any sheep species is going to be on the shorter distances. I think I would call 12,000 acres of cattle fence free range <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So that hunt is a good example of knowing my gun, its ballistics and certainly my limitations with that particular gun. From the time we first saw the sheep to the time I pulled the trigger was almost 3 1/2hrs. The first 1 1/2hrs was making the 3 mile walk around the aoudad to work the wind and come in from above. The next two hours was a cat and mouse game of getting within range to make the shot. Hell I didn't even run down to the animal after the single shot because I wanted to have a total experience. I stood their against the yucka plant, close my eyes, felt the rain/wind on my face and smelled the desert air.

That was a "hunt" my friend and not a shooting contest. Yes the challenge was real.

In regards to wounding an animal, I know people who have no business shooting 130 yds (clearly not "long" range). Do I agree that we owe it to the animal for clean kill, DARN RIGHT. I believe you have categorized long range shooters of just launching lead down range. For me it quite the opposite, I will pass it is not right. Matter of fact, on my mentioned hunt I did not shoot at 325 because of the wind/rain. This is the gun that is good out to 800yds.

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The score of his horns matters more than the method taken.



Don't believe any inches were given?


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458,

Good question that relates to my earlier "grey area" statement. Again, my gripe comes down to the bragging about the long distance thing. Having a forum titled Long Range Hunting might initiate some dufuss that has no business taking the shot to attempt the shot in the hopes that he too could post a thread and join the ranks of the Great White Long Distance Hunter, when all he's really doing is sending a bullet downrange....big f'ing whoop-dee-doo I say.


You could say that any information could lead a dufus to attempt something he doesn't have the skills for. Really no different than a guy who doesn't know anything about bow hunting having a 5 pin sight fit to his compound so he can shoot out to 50 yds, or further, despite not being able to consistantly put shots into the vitals at 1/2 that distance.

This forum is for those that have the skills to accurately place shots at long range to share what they know with those who would like to learn.

Even if one never intends to shoot past their rifles PBR, having the skills to accurately place shots at 2 to 3 times that range won't ever hurt.

As I've said, you can't be too good of a shot, or have too accurate of a rifle. True it won't mitigate lack of hunting skills, but it might just compliment them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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You see discussions from time to time where someone claims to have seen numerous wounded animals as a result of long range shooting. I have a hard time believing there are that many people out there that are truly set on a long distance shot and have the equiptment to do it. It seems that every wounded Elk wondering around Montana was shot from some extreme distance. I think it is irresponsible to make such statements with as it appears as more speculation than fact. How many people are lugging around 12+ lb. rifles with the barrel half burned up from load developement, $1,000 plus scopes, rangefinder, weather station, ballistic software on a palm etc. etc.? Would you say 1 in a 1000 in the field? Probably less. These shooters/hunters, what ever your preference, aren't causing problems because there isn't enough of them to matter. If someone would go on a quest to somehow limit a persons ability to shoot game at long ranges through regulation, please remeber that the trusty old 300 Win Mag you've carried for years can be very deadly at 1K.

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I think ya`ll ought to go to WY and shoot p-dogs @600+yrds. I just got a 40S&W for the close ones... If you like it keep shootin, if you don`t go home! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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This forum title should be changed to Long Range Shooting.

Let's call a spade a spade folks.


Amen Brother! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Here is the 501 yds with a 264 Win Mag 125 Nosler Partition at 3350 fps.

[Linked Image]

This one is at 452 yds with a 416 WBY Mag-- 330 GS Custom at 3100 fps!

[Linked Image]

Congratulations on your past long range shooting successes, POP. Very nice shooting. Good to see you're as lousy a hunter as the rest of us.

Spades are spades, and I call this one a hypocrite.

I sincerely hope I am wrong and that was an attempt at sarcasm on your part.

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To each his own, but there is room for everyone. Auto Insurance companies are pressuring Wildlife management to open up hunting near populated area due to all the wrecks caused by deer hits on roads. Muzzle loaders and bow hunters are the only ones allowed due to the limited range of projectiles. Reasoning behind that is that long range gun bullets can travel several miles. Horns are of no interest to me and my wife/her friends finds it a disgusting ritual. I have left many handsome racks in the bush with head attached. The best deer head and highest score that I have ever seen scoring in the top 6 Boone and crockett in Alberta was run over by a truck. My cousin took the head off the deer in the ditch, he doesn't hunt deer because he says they stink to much and his kids won't eat it. Opinions vary so widely on every issue. But we all have one thing in common and that is getting out there and hunt hard because it won't be long before you can't anymore. So relax and enjoy yourself and don't get so uptight. Long range/short range all in the same hunting kinship.

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POP where are you hiding your earmuffs?

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Canuck, Why do you say It wont be long before we cant hunt anymore?

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I love that 416 picture POP.A true classic by anymeans.

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Bushcraft

The only thing I take exception to, is that you can buy accuracy. Yes you can. But the SKILL to be able to shoot and be 150% sure of your first shot kill, that took me years and years of competition shooting. Its much more difficult than learning to sneak into a deers bedroom and smack em.

I started being a 100-200 yard shooter. Then as I started shooting I"d stretch to 300, but along the way I was realizing that at 300 yards in a match, I could miss a change and miss the center by 5-6 inches(really usually ok on game though) BUT not making me happy. I started match shooting in 91. It was not until about 96-98 that I was totally confident in being able to lay down, look at it all and dump a center shot cold bore at beyond 300 yards. And its progressed to where I can do it at 600 every time too(somewhat weather dependant and thats why I decline some shots, much as mentioned about a close buck, but not 150% sure of the shot, I"ve let em walk under 100 yards for similar reasons)

Now I do totally agree on idiots "skyblasting" Those same idiots are usually as dangerous at 100 or 200 as they are at long range, and more than likely more dangerous up close as further out most don't even come close to game. IE not even within feet....

I do not suggest and never have, than anyone push their known limits. Though thats done all the time by what I consider short range shooters.

My solution, but folks hate it generally, is to qualify on a range. Even if its off a benchrest, but prefer a field shooting test. Cost prohibitive, but it would sure place folks where they need to be.

I"ve mentioned before that I quit a great guiding job because I wanted to make folks "qualify" on a paper plate for those that wanted to hunt the stands with 300 yard plus oats patches opportunities. Have seen enough wounded deer from 250-400 yard (mid range) shots that aggravate me.

So yep, I'm wishy washy in a way, but those that choose and do the work for mid range or longer shots, and are qualified to take those shots, they put in much more time each year than most normal hunters do. Won't argue that its shooting vs stalking, but then again you state that sitting isn't "hunting" to you either. So we are on the same tune, just a different page.

Call it what you wish, but the skill level for long shots is way beyond the skill to get within 100 yards of any animal that I've ever hunted.

BTW why do I take long shots? Sometimes for the challenge, often its whats offered at that moment in time or nothing, and its something that I want, yet that doesn't mean I take every long animal I see. I prefer to go to the table with a loaded deck if you will. If that deck deals me a short shot, great, if not...... well there is my sig line....

Regards, Jeff


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This forum title should be changed to Long Range Shooting.

Let's call a spade a spade folks.


Amen Brother! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Here is the 501 yds with a 264 Win Mag 125 Nosler Partition at 3350 fps.

[Linked Image]

This one is at 452 yds with a 416 WBY Mag-- 330 GS Custom at 3100 fps!

[Linked Image]

Congratulations on your past long range shooting successes, POP. Very nice shooting. Good to see you're as lousy a hunter as the rest of us.

Spades are spades, and I call this one a hypocrite.

I sincerely hope I am wrong and that was an attempt at sarcasm on your part.


Jon, we have been though this before on another forum haven't we? Anyone can do what they want, just like anyone can have an opinion. You can air yours as I air mine.

A hypocrite? OK yah....according to your standards.
500 yards is my limit and yes that is extreme long range for me. Ideal conditions existed (for probably the only time in windy Wyoming <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />). I could not get closer after a while of trying so I took the shoot. If this makes me a hypocrite then OK........

but in my opinion not quite the same as:

[color:"red"]
1. Hmm he is too close, let me see if I can get one wayyyy out there.

2. Let's see... I can get closer but my ego does not allow me to kill one that close.


3. Let me lob substandard match bullets at deer/elk at over 1000 yards just because their bc is higher. [/color]


Please do not mistake the above statements as an invite to a flame war that has been fought I do not know how many times here and on other forums. These are statements that have been infered by myselfand others from statements and actions of some long range shooters. Again this is my opinion just like the gentleman who suggested you call it long range shooting and not hunting...because hunting it is not.


[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]




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POP where are you hiding your earmuffs?


The guy who is taking the picture has them...on the 416 pix that is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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[Linked Image]




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Father time man. I'm already having hip problems and can't walk very far anymore If you hunt every year, how many hunts have you got left before the old body is worn out?
So hunt hard and hunt long because it isn't an infinite number.

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I love that 416 picture POP.A true classic by anymeans.


I really got lucky finding that classicmark II unfired in box...and it is a Jap also.

I also got lucky about a month ago and picked this 378 WBY jap again and has 3 shots through her. I believe that because she has no muzzle break.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

378 bee
[Linked Image]

416 bee

[Linked Image]

270 ultralight bee

[Linked Image]

30-378 Bee Accumark

[Linked Image]

man can you tell I have been on a WBY kick?


[Linked Image]



[Linked Image]




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the fact that you guys give two schitts about what anyone other than yourselves think is the correct way to hunt simply amazes me. If you don't think that shooting a deer or other big game animal at a certain distance is hunting, oh well. I do my own thing and if folks cain't except it that is their burden not mine.........Blake


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Whats the magic distance the differentiates between hunting and shooting?

It's a fair question, and there needs to be some basis for the reasoning vs, it just doesn't seem like hunting past X yards.

depends on terrain.
out west the animals can see you from a farther distance so its not gonna be the same as here in the south.
were i hunt if you can see more than a couple hundred yards your in a pasture.


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or a powerline.......Blake


People sleep peaceable in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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