Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LR Hunting - Why?

Please do not misconstrue my question, I am not trying to be antagonistic. Moreover, I am not distance shy and as an ex-Army rifle team member, have shot with open irons out to 800m. Nowadays, I am somewhat more conservative (courtesy of improving age) and as a qualified deer stalker, take upwards of 30 deer every year. For this, I use an '06 with quality 8x56 optics and to date, have never felt wanting. However, my shots are all within 250m, which is nonetheless a long shot from field positions. On the range, things are different and I have from the trench, shot my Sako into less than 2" at 300m (Hun's Head) without significant effort. Thus, both man and machine are capable of better.

Therefore, my question is, what type of rest or jig is used to stabilise the truly impressive rifles used in this discipline and above all, what is the reason for shooting at game over such long distances? Whilst I live in a rural county, I cannot imagine an interrupted field of view exceeding 500m, without some obstacle (tree, fence, cows) affecting both safety and placement.

Any help in explaining the why's and wherefore's would be appreciated, as at present, the scale is beyond my meagre comprehension.

Regards,

Jacobite

Don't you get bored doing the same ole thing every year?
Where is the challenge?
Where is the difficulty?
Where is the sport?

I passed up about 30 deer on the last day of the season because they were all under 350 yards and it was simply no challenge to kill one. It would have just been "killing" and not any enjoyment. The last deer I saw was buck that was in the open field not more than 200 yards from my truck and only 100 yards from me. Simply no sport nor fun nor challenge to make a hundred yard shot. End result is I did not kill a deer but I am just a happy as if I had.

I also bowhunt a lot and that is a lot of fun and I enjoy that immensely.

well it probably has something to do w/ England being about the same size as Alabama.
There is alot of open country here in the US. couple that with our ability to own many weapons and you see that we are very Specialized when it comes to hunting.
There was a time when a man did everything w/ an -06 and a weaver K3. Now we (Americans) tend to want everything and have weapons that we envision as being for specific uses.
Long Range hunting is just one aspect of our variety.
We have people that hunt pigs w/ knives and we have people that hunt deer w/ 50 caliber beanfield rifles @ 700 yards+.
We hunt bear with longbow and turkey w/ 3 1/2 Mag semiauto shotguns.
Thats what happens when you have a conumer driven economy and an advertising gullible populace combined w/ freedom to own almost any weapon designed.

I hunt in the wide open desert; cover and Terrain rarely allow you within 300yrds. It is not uncommon to spot bedded deer at 1.5 miles. It sounds like you hunt in much denser conditions.
You have to be comfortable in your hunting environment, and for me its better to be over prepared than not.

Hi Buffalobob,

Stalking is very challenging, I would say. One has to use fieldcraft and stealth to move into close quarters, select the target beast and despatch it cleanly. Over here, things are stringently controlled, in terms of game management, firearms ownership and above all, health & hygiene and thus, precision is the absolute rule. Do I get a "buzz" from squeezing a trigger? Not really. However, I do get a rush having stalked a hind and her calf to within a few yards and observing Mother Nature at work or better still, having a roe buck come to within 5 paces of me without being compromised. That is my motivation. As for the numbers game, it is a case of managing the population on my lands, as if I were to fail to do so, nutritional stress and over-population could weaken the herd and threaten its long-term survival. This is a balancing act at best, one I struggle with each year.

As to long-range shooting, I can see its role within a park setting from a high seat or hide with a stable platform, when a given cull must be achieved. I've done it, but it equates to nothing more than deer sniping and can be very effective, if time is of the essence. Notably, it is illegal in this country to shoot deer from a vehicle, period. Therefore, we have to get "out there", which clearly can go one of two ways: correctly or tits up. Either way, it is a joy to be in the open and like you, I am happy, even if I have passed up a shot or indeed, seen nothing but trees. There's always tomorrow...

Thanks and regards,

Jacobite

I don't think we are saying anything greatly different. The purpose of hunting is to enjoy the expereince and that does not require that anything be killed.

Shooting from a vehicle is usually illegal in the United Sates and has very little to do with long range hunitng but is usually associated with the 100 yard rifle hunters.

AS far as deer sniping goes, I have put my point out there and that is just that the types of shots you take are not any more than deer killing and boring to my way of thinking. At long range there is a shooting skill level to be acquired through practice and experience. It is possible that I might actually miss. If I got good enough to routinely kill animals at 1000 yards then I would certainly get bored and give it up.

I certainly agree with you that there are few things more enjoyable than having an animal very close to you (as long as it is not going to eat you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), but shooting it with a rifle is very little sport. That is why bowhunting still winds my motor.

When things get too easy I will look for a different challenge. The people who have thrown away their compound bows and hunt with the recurves or homemade bows are the ones who are having all of the fun. They might not kill much but they are certainly having a lot of fun trying.

In case it is not clear to you, I will say that I, personally, do not see long range hunting as a way to kill more animals than another method of hunting. In my early days long ago, that was my objective, but I gave it up and mostly went to bowhunting. Now that I am retired I have time to do more different types of hunting I simply see it as a challenge.

WHY???? Because I can't sing or dance

Sometimes you gotta take them were you see them.

Jacobite

I like Boyd's answer and its my first thought as to a reply. IE don't care for it then don't come over here....
But the truth be known, how much time and effort did you expend to become a really good "sniper" in the military? Many years of training and hours involved to be able to put that first round where it counts cold barrel zero at a distance. Lots of effort. Much like stalking, bowhunting etc....

We all revel in differing things. ITs why not all of us hunt, fish, play ball etc... I love thick hunting. With a bow. Closest kill has been 3 yards on the ground, recurve, no blind. I also love hunting a thicket in where I stalk and usually have very close but quick shots with an AR15 that I love very much. I also have hunted where long shots are very workable. Some places one can see for miles literally. And sometimes though you could get closer there are reasons not to want to or time allowances. And to date my longest kill is only 802 yards. Have one that was 950ish but we decided to shoot a rock first to be on the safe side as I was borrowing a gun.....long story....anyway rock was dead but feral sheep started walking off..... no dice.

I take pleasure out of a myriad of opportunities, choosing not to get bored with one(bow kills under 15 yards number over 100 and I got down to a custom recurve instinctive shooting to keep it interesting....)

I think its simply a matter of choice. Why folks love hunting with bow(your choice of style), pistol, muzzleloaders, modern firearms etc... and the distances at which it works out for them given skill, ability etc.... Much as I love hunting with an AR15-- I don't really know why, but I just love it. And I"ve yet to fire a second round with it while hunting.

Hope this clears it up some and answers the question in a civil manor!

Be glad you can still own a firearm and hunt over there. YOu've lost just about everything you possibly can. I revel in the fact I can own and shoot a class 3 gun, hunt year round something, carry a 45 almost anywhere I want to, reload, shoot matches, and have my own property. Though our democrats are quickly trying to erode all those rights by one method or another.

Jeff

Congradualations on your style of hunting. First, a bit of information from someone that has hunted all over the UK. You can only shoot an animal in the lungs. A shot anywhere else results in a hugh fine. All meat is sold commercially & belongs to the estate. I usually shoulder shoot animals. This is a no no in Europe. Red Stag are a bit smaller than elk & a good sized target, Sika & Fallow Deer are Whitetail size, but Roe Deer are about the size of a German Shepherd, if that. Think a lung shot the size of a cantalope. No public hunting is available. All hunting is on estates so a quota is established. If the estate needs "X" number of animals harvested & you have hunting rights or payed to hunt there a whacking you go. Remember, it also rains most of the time & is usually foggy. The terrain is just great to stalk in. Until you have fell into a bog up to your a$$ you don't know what true hunting really is. Believe me I have in Scotland. Love the hunting there & the people. Very hunter & gun friendlly once out of London. I plan to return soon.

tbear,
It sounds as though you've confused some constraints imposed on you by your stalker as being a UK policy...it isn't <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you make return visits and get to know him (and he comes to know and trust your ability) you'll probably find those 'rules' will relax/disappear.

Glad you enjoyed the Highlands!

I understand both sides of this arguement. I don't have a problem with anyone shooting long range. I know people that have done it and I have made a couple of long shots.
Although this year I shot my whitetails at less that 30 yards and my elk at less than 30 feet.

All and all I do my best to get as close as possible without spooking the animal....the reason for this is I would be sick if I shot off a front leg or wounded an animal because I was pushing the envelope on range for reasons such as "it is boring to shoot them close".

These are just my thoughts. I am not saying anyone on here has wounded an animal.....but if you have ever missed one, that means that it could have very easily been a wounded one.

Just my 2 cents.

Because sometimes the landscape makes it a pretty useful skill to have.

This forum title should be changed to Long Range Shooting.

Let's call a spade a spade folks.

Here in PA, there are over 450,000+ deer shot every year. While I don't have hard data to back up my opinion but I am willing to guess that 90-95% are shot under 150yds.

I have killed critters so close that I probably burned some hair on the hide clear out to 615yds. In addition to having a rifle built for such hunting, a caliber capable of humane kills, rest, rangefinder, ballistic knowledge on the rifle, and a spotter. I have a self imposed limit on my range under a different range of conditions. This limit is to insure that I limit the variables to a wounded animal. I am dead accurate out the 850yds but it would have been a pop shot on the critters that have been out to that range had I pulled the trigger. Not going to do it.

Well, first let me say, this thread seams to be antagonistic. I am new to the fire and couldnt help but get involved in this topic because I for one dislike Long range shooting. It probably is bad form to come on here and say anything as the providers of this sight deem it a acceptable enough "sport" to offer it as a catagory in the forum directory.
But that said, I feel the excuse of shooting a deer within proficient weapon range is "boring" and unsporting, unacceptable for rationalizing long range shooting.
In my opinion, the only reason for long range shooting is lack of hunting skills, which should not be confused with shooting skills.
First is the factor of wounding. If you miss, that means the projectile did not go where it was intended. Could be shooter error, or animal movement. Both exagerated at long distance targets. This is not hunting or "sport". It is the difficulties of shooting long ranges.
Second , What is sport? For that mater what is hunting. Is hunting the challenge of beating the game animals senses and getting close enough to kill it? And is sport not the METHOD used to achieve this goal?
Third, where do we as hunters draw the line at weapon technology. When is enough, enough? Would it be challenging to shoot a laser 1000 yards? Or click the shoot button on a remote rifle over the internet?
A picture of the desert is little arguement of why you should shoot 600 yards. The open sage is a defense, just as the deep swamp or dizzying cliffs which our prey have evolved in to survive, and escape predators. Technology can eliminate these obstacles, Yet is it sport to do so ?
I for one have seen the affects of long range shooters. The jaws blown off, legs gone, gut shots and such. Not to start about the attitude of the magnum hunter. Who shoots 600 yards at a elk and proclaims " I musta missed. If this 300 weatherby would have hit him he'd be down." As the gut shot animal walks off unaware a hunter is even in the woods.
If you want the challenge of shooting, why not shoot targets. If you want to hunt , why not try hunting?

Amen Brother! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How does lack of hunting skills have anything to do with killing a deer. We are killing animals are we not? So what is the difference if average Joe who shoots his gun 5 times at the camp to see if he is still minute of deer on his pie plate and kills a deer at 75yds versus an individual who shoots 500+ rounds with dozens of different combinations of powder, seating depths or bullet styles/weights at 550 yards?

Spade or not Killin is killin regards of choice of weapon.

BTW do you know how large a deer is at 500 yards while standing a bunch of jing weeds on a 100 acre hillside? I am willing to bet I spend more time with my binos over my eyes in one day than most do the entire season. If I want up and personal, I grab the bow.

Just out of curiousity, do any of you "hunters" have modern-technologically advanced scopes on your rifles? Gortex in your boots? Water proof gear? GPS? ATV?

CAUSE THEY CAN'T DO IT IN FRANCE, REASON ENOUGH FOR ME.

I used to be antaganistic to long range shots on game, then I became a bit educated on what is possible, and am no working on my skills and equipment.

My thought is, if one has the skills and equipment for taking game at 500m or more, it certainly isn't going to be detriment inside 250 m.

Hunting conditions vary alot around the world, and not everyone has the time to know the land and habits of their quary like the back of their hands.

It really doesn't matter what equipment folks use, so long as they know their limitations and place shots accordingly. I'd say a good lr chap is better suited to take game than the bubba the madly flings bullets, or arrows with little ability to consistantly place them in the vitals.