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A couple weeks ago I decided to go black.

I bought a Springfield M1a Socom 16 two weeks ago. Headspace on card 1.631"

This coming week, I have a Daniel Defense DD5V1 coming.

I am going to use commercial .308 Win brass for both.

The bullet is going to be the Hornady 165gr SST with a cannelure. CCI #34 primers that are recommended by Springfield.

My die set for the .308 is the older RCBS competition set, but will be using the lee factory crimp die also.

I want to use the same load for both.

I want to pick your brains and use your wealth of experiences. Both guns are 16" barrels.

What say you on the below link.

http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html



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Typical commercial brass may not last very long in this application.***

Load wise, get some 4895 and start with a moderate load like 39 grains or so. If you were using a standard length barrel I'd say work up until you hit accuracy pay dirt in the vicinity of 2550-2600 fps. You'll be approximating LC Match ammunition.

If the ~25 fps per inch loss I see across my 308's holds below 20" (the shortest I have) you'll lose about 150 fps with the 16" barrel.


*** Added: Look for brass manufactured to "milspec" for 7.62x51 cartridges. You'll want the heavy stuff with the thick case heads.

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My experience for the .308 is limited to two guns.
One is my S&W Husqvarna Sporter and the other a BLR. I use Lapua brass for them.

But to my surprise,I bought some Starline and it is heavier and more consistent in weight and measurements. Splitting hairs but I am going to use Starline. My son has used Lake City in 5.56. I am not impressed with lake city. Maybe he got a bad lot. I might have to go to Lake City 7.62 NATO if either gun tears the brass up two much.

I already have IMR4895,H4895 and AA 2495BR. I'll try all of them.Thanks


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It looks like the Starline is the heavy type you'd want if they got the alloy/hardness right. I've had excellent luck with Starline in heavy handgun loads.

What was the problem with the LC brass?

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Originally Posted by mathman
It looks like the Starline is the heavy type you'd want if they got the alloy/hardness right. I've had excellent luck with Starline in heavy handgun loads.

What was the problem with the LC brass?


I am mostly by a very large extent a handguner. Starline is all I use there.

LC brass problem:
Variance in neck stickiness so bad that it would split in the thin area on first firing. His chamber is good. Felt a wide variance with my Lee Auto-Prime when priming. Like I said, he might have gotten a bad batch. Once is enough for me.


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Before you go loading the same brass to use in each rifle, fire a couple factory rounds through each gun and compare the headspace. If its the same or real close, I doubt you would have any safety issues loading one load for both rifles. However, if there is a .003"+ difference, I would keep the brass separate and size differently also. You will want to bump to bump the shoulder back approx .003", give or take a thousandth. I wouldn't do more than .005" or less than .002" with an auto loader.

Use a powder like Varget or IMR 4064 and work up, starting from around 40gr. You definitely don't want to run into high pressures, that just makes for problems with semi-autos.

As for brass, I use whatever I can but I prefer the thicker stuff for gas guns. I'd get a few hundred rounds of LC brass and start loading.


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I've bought the Federal American Eagle Lake City 7.62x51 and while it isn't Lapua/Norma it sure as heck wasn't bad like that. It gave excellent results in my M852 and M118 LC Match clones I mass produced for a while.

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Originally Posted by wareagle700
Before you go loading the same brass to use in each rifle, fire a couple factory rounds through each gun and compare the headspace. If its the same or real close, I doubt you would have any safety issues loading one load for both rifles. However, if there is a .003"+ difference, I would keep the brass separate and size differently also. You will want to bump to bump the shoulder back approx .003", give or take a thousandth. I wouldn't do more than .005" or less than .002" with an auto loader.

Use a powder like Varget or IMR 4064 and work up, starting from around 40gr. You definitely don't want to run into high pressures, that just makes for problems with semi-autos.

As for brass, I use whatever I can but I prefer the thicker stuff for gas guns. I'd get a few hundred rounds of LC brass and start loading.


It's more about residual pressure at the gas port than it is about peak pressure, i.e., the tail end of the time-pressure curve. That's why staying near the 4895 burn rate is important.

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Yes, pressure curves definitely come into play but I haven't had any issues with most common 308 powders. Many pressure issues with AR's can be masked with adjustable gas blocks, buffer weights, etc.... I haven't loaded for the M14 rifle but have read where they are a little different when it comes to powder.


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I load for both an M1A Squad Scout and a Winchester M70 FWT Stainless. I loaded for a Remington 700 VSFS for several years as well.
First of all, my M1A came with a card telling me that my rifle was headspaced at 1.632. The owner's manuel says that my rifle is cleared to fire all commerical .308, except the extra velocity ammo.
I've shot both loads for each in the other rifle. The M70 loads wouldn't chamber a few times. But all the ammo that my Lyman Case Gauge says is OK, chamber fine. All of the M1A ammo chambers and shoots fine in the M70.
The funny thing is the commerical .308 brass won't full lenth size small enough to function reliably in the M1A if it's been reloaded much. Even if most of it has been just neck sized with a Lee Collet Die and then full lenth sized. But the PPU and Lake City brass has always resized just fine.
So this isn't much of a problem. Heck, my Remington 700 ammo wouldn't chamber in my M70. But I could use the 70's ammo in the 700.
What I've found is I need to develop loads for each rifle with brass that works well with it. In the M1A, since you must full lenth size each time you reload it, you should use the heavier brass. You aren't going to load it very hot either. The rifle will eject extra hard and the accuracy, at least in mine, goes down hill fast if I try to load it hot. E

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Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by mathman
It looks like the Starline is the heavy type you'd want if they got the alloy/hardness right. I've had excellent luck with Starline in heavy handgun loads.

What was the problem with the LC brass?


I am mostly by a very large extent a handguner. Starline is all I use there.

LC brass problem:
Variance in neck stickiness so bad that it would split in the thin area on first firing. His chamber is good. Felt a wide variance with my Lee Auto-Prime when priming. Like I said, he might have gotten a bad batch. Once is enough for me.


We shot quite a few years with the m1As. LC only. Brought home enough matches and medals and rarely ever saw neck splits. We did anneal though.

YMMV.


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Since I already have the Starline coming in. I'll try that. I'll wait until I get the DD rifle and measure both fired cases in each gun. Go from there. The RCBS Match set might not size down enough. I'll have to check. As far as powder charge, I am going to use 7.62 NATO data in the commercial cases. My old AA red book lists loads for both .308 and 7.62 NATO. Depending on the powder there is a 2-3 grain difference for the Mil spec cases. Being lower because of the thicker brass. The red book goes in great detail about burn rates and ball vs extruded powder for loading Military autos. 4895 and 2520 (ball) are their best picks. But you can go a little faster or slower from there. The 16" barrel may make a difference. Springfield states that they modify the gas port for their 16" SOCOM. But they do not elaborate.

I might have to go the LC route like you guys said. I'm am not after top accuracy anyway. But I might change my mind for the DD. I might scope that one in the future.


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RCBS match set was about all I ever used for loading at that point in our lives for Carolyn and I.

I did find for some reason that a small base size die produced more accurate loads, but sizing wise the match die did fine RE function.


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I went ahead and ordered some Lake City brass today. What the hell.

New guns, new format, might as well experiment. I like doing that anyway.


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16" .308's are an acquired taste. Wear ear plugs under your headset smile

Think I'd stick to 4895 or very similar powders in the M1A. In a .308 AR I like Varget, but others will work well. The AR has no silly operating rod to bend smile

These are real useful for checking fired cases, and making sure you don't over-size them:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...pace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

And they don't cost a lot.

Last, let us know how the Daniel shoots. I am curious if they are worth the money.


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Thanks Tex

I already have the bushing set. They are very handy.


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I've used TAC almost exclusively for my M1A loads. Works great. E

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Originally Posted by Oheremicus
I've used TAC almost exclusively for my M1A loads. Works great. E


TAC is right there in burn rate sweet spot according to the charts.


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AR Comp works great too. 41gr in LC cases with a 175MK and a 205M is one of the most accurate loads I've shot out of anything. Moves at 2550fps out of a 20".


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Originally Posted by BarryC
AR Comp works great too. 41gr in LC cases with a 175MK and a 205M is one of the most accurate loads I've shot out of anything. Moves at 2550fps out of a 20".


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