Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game premium bullets vs standard

OK fellers, it's just too quiet here. To get something going here let's talk bullets. I am so tired of everyone saying you need a premum bullet. What ever happened to the idea of matching up a caliber with the proper weight bullet. The trend seems to be to use a 'trick' bullet (with mixed results) with a super (ultra) caliber. So the question, how many of you really feal you need premiams and why?

Ought-six: Its not as impotatnt in deer and under sized game. And not as important again with the slower non-magnum calibers.<P>With two frangible a bullet in a high velocity round, bad things happen.<P>With the right choice of bullets and weight you don't need as many differant calibers? (grin)<P>Tex

The big arguements against premiums are they aren't necessary, and they are too expensive.<BR> It's true. The premiums aren't necessary. Lots of critters are taken every year w/o them. But, in any cartriage, they give an edge. In some of them, quite a bit. They really shine in the lighter for the game sought situations. And in the over 3,000 fps. rounds. Do the math. In a 30'06, the common arguement is it's ability to use 220 gr. bullets. But even at 2/3's weight retention, the 220 gr. bullets weigh about 145 grs. A premium weighing 165 grs., and retaining 90% of it's weight weighs 148.5 grs. And that premium 165 gr. bullet can be pushed to 2900 fps. out of the '06. The 220 can only be pushed about 2400 fps. Which one will shoot flatter ? <BR> As to cost, I think somebody's kidding themselves. What do you spend, total, in the pursuit of hunting ? Now, how does that compare to the cost of a box, or two, of premiums vs. the cost of conventional bullets. Not much. Actually, it's pretty insignificant. <BR> I find it funny that we can debate things like the arguements favoring one cartriage over a 200 fps. faster magnum. Or a .270 vs. a 30'06. The really dramatic differences that I've seen on critters is the differences between the premium bullets vs. the conventional bullet designs. E

"Premiums vs. Standard Bullets"?<P>There is only one way to solve this...<P>Load two identical rifles chambered in the same cartridge and fire them towards each other. But one will be loaded with a "premium" bullet, the other a "standard" bullet. After the two bullets strike in mid-air, the surviving will be the winner! Yea!<P>Now lets just round up some volunteers to do the shooting. I'm thinkin' that Texas Hunter is currently available for this sort of thing, and his hospital records are up to date. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Okay, okay... <P>Well, it has been slow lately.<P> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Strange this topic came up! I was just today discussing with my wife how people grump about the cost of premium bullets. What brought this subject to mind for me you may ask! Well it was the new arrows and broadheads I just bought for deer hunting. This is all mid grade stuff not even the best of everything, the price per shot at a deer assuming the arrow is lost or ruined when released at a deer......$11 yes that's right Eleven bucks a shot, how does that compare to a measley upcharge for some stinking Partitions, A-Frames, or Barnes X bullets??????<P>Just Kidding guys It's not upsetting, but kind of puts things into perspective.<P>Mike

I have a couple observations, taken from the field, about the issue. I'll hurry and chime in before too many more folks (who really know what they're talking about) chime in and sew up the thread for the rest of us. I generally second E's thoughts.<P>Shooting Remington factory CoreLokt 130 PSPs, the 12$ a box kind, my bullets will often not exit on 30 yard shots into big bodied deer. They will exit on 100 yard shots. I have no problem with this, as the deer are stone dead anyway. I don't want to use too much bullet on a whitetail -- I want expansion and even some fragmentation, as long as it isn't on the surface. <P>I'd rather have a dead critter I can see than an exit wound with a good blood trail.<P>When I shot a .270 Wby. Mag. with inexpensive 130 grain ammo, the fragmentation was worse up close, but still deadly. When I used the trophy bonded Bearclaw 140s in same rifle, there was an exit wound about 2x caliber. Fortunately it was in exactly the right place, and the deer bounded twice then bit the dirt.<P>I would rather have one shot in the right spot with a cheap bullet than the rest of the magazine -- or the box, for that matter -- shot into the wrong spot.<P>At this point I am going to continue using the Remmi 130s for deer. I am taking the Federal Premium 140 grain TBBs for black bear this winter. I will be trying to shoot through a shoulder on a potentially big critter, so I decided to err on the side of bullet toughness. It will be very important for the bear to not make it into the thickets in the later example, and Ill be trying to cut him down, before or after driving through the vitals. If this happens at 20 yards, I'll be glad for the premiums. Or at least I won't be worried about the bullet.<P>Hopefully a detailed autopsy will follow this winter [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Good shooting, Talus<P>E is also right about the cost issue. Do the math, and the 'cost' of premium bullets will be chuckle fodder.<P>Hey, if we all brought our hunting food and avoided those greasy holes-in-the-wall we frequent when hunting, we could save the cost of our premium bullets! Not to mention future medical care.

Oh yeah, I'll echo RORs whining about the cost of mid-grade bow "bullets". Each of my average hunting arrows costs about what a box of Remmi green and yellow box .270s do. So you can imagine my disgust when I launch one over the practice target and loose it in my backyard [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Talus

Velocity is the determining factor for me,in regards to the type of projectile I use. Most guys don't shoot cartridges that are capable of making conventional bullets fail. With that in mind,they spew forth the "fact",that they are quite unnecessary and of course expensive. Most that state such opinion,base it upon ZERO experiences,regarding dead critters they've shot. <P>It is when you radically increase impact velocity,that projectile selection becomes amazingly clear. Bullets made to harness the impact speeds of a 30-30,will be stressed in a major manner,when launched at max obtainable speeds in a 30-378. Hard to be pizzed about something failing to perform brilliantly ,at something it was never intended to cope with. You don't hear guys in BMW's bitching,because they don't go in the mud as well as a tricked out 4x4. That because it ISN'T an apples to apples comparison. Same goes bullets.<P>With that in mind,we are offered a myriad of components to select from. Some are highly specialized,that are suited best to a particular niche. Others encompass a more forgiving nature,excelling at numerous tasks. Better yet,is the bullet that will do it all. <P>It is for that reason,that I generally opt for the best I can buy. My goal isn't to see how marginally I can kill something. With that in mind,I select the projectile that will perform at the highest of my lofty expectations. That bullet for me,is the X. With it,I can reap all the attributes of ANY conventional bullet made. Further,I can push them as fast as I care to and needn't worry about insufficient penetration,bone breaking ability or other "weirdness". <P>As the others have mentioned,cost is a non-issue. I don't go Hunting to save money. If I were to use that mindset,the very component that my success relies upon,would be the last piece I'd cut corners on. At $1.00 (at most) per filled tag,that would be a foolhardy bitch.<P>I may scratch a Lottery Ticket every so often and set down to a game of Black Jack,but bet the farm I won't be gambling on my bullets performance. Why?...Simply because I no longer have to. Technology IS a wonderous thing.......

Shootin' and hunting in 90% Mental.<BR>If you trust your hunt to an avrage "Fits all" bullet,by all means tust a std. bullet.<BR>Nosler Partitions used to be an "Exotic" premium bullet,now they are an accepted std.<BR>Things can go too far to the extreme side,but todays "Premium bullet" is tomorrows std.<BR>A bullet that performs across the widest range of terminal inpact ranges is king.<BR>Those that are narrowly defined will soon be history.It's evolution,and progress.<BR>Bambi needs only a flint broadhead to expire.<BR>Other critters need more medicine.<BR>This has been the situation since time immortal,and defines us as hunters/predators.<BR>No other species worries about the ethics and details of the kill like we do.<BR>Is it ethical to use bulk soft point ammo on a prarie dog hunt,rather than super explosive premium bullets?<BR>We all hate the thought of the critter we so respect,suffering at our hand through our technical ignorance.<BR>Use the best you can afford,and sleep well knowing our quarry would do the same for us were the roles reversed.<BR>Cheers!<BR>E4E

I don't know if we need "premium" bullets or "premium" rifles in every case. I do know we need to be "premium" hunters who can hit what we shoot at where we want to hit it.<P>Blaine

Here is a worthless post, just felt like chiming in, feel free to skip if you desire to. I'm probably just the opposite of Big Stick.<P>I hunt with average calibers, shooting average velocities at average groups at average distances for your average deer. (group of 2 inches or less at 100 yards, and my average range will be 150 yards or less) I use a Good bullet at average cost. Sierra and Hornady provide my bullets at reasonable cost and from what I have read and whom I've spoken to, they should work just fine for me.<P>As an aside note, most of my rifles will shoot 1 MOA or better, with my handloads.<P>With that said, I have yet to kill my first deer. I have seen 6 (all does with only bucks being legal and shot at one, a doe in doe season. (flinched so badly from excitement I shot the tree branch above her, nice branch I clipped! Made excellent fire wood when I dragged it back!)<P>I cannot really justify the expense of "premium bullets" that is probably the main reason I stay with "non premium bullets". Plus I have no use for the exceptional qualities that the premium ones offer. When I do, I probably will use them.<P>ie. loading 130 X's in my 30-06 for deer. Hence a light bullet for caliber and light for game being persued. (I'm waiting till I feel rich to go try some load development! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] )

Well you guys are making a lot of sense. Especially with the cost factor with the hunt. What to hell is a few more cents per bullet. I don't have a lot of experience with the big magnums, maybe they are a pain in the but and you need to look for a bullet that will work in them but with the 06 just use the 165's (hornady or sieras what I use) for up to the big bears and moose, use 180's to 200's for moose and no problem, at least in my 27 years experience. As the saying goes, use what works for you.

ought-six I think you summed it up perfectly! If you have had good success with those bullets then by all means use them. <P>I doubt anybody would have anything bad to say about Interlocks at standard velocity and I know I've read several accounts of the Sierra's working well if not pushed too fast or through too much meat and bone! <P>I use Partitions whenever possible unless grossly overgunned such as .338 WM on deer(first time this coming year!) <P>Mike

True that the cost of the bullet is insignificant vs the total cost of the hunt. True that premiums are required for high velocity magnums. True that lowly calibers like the 06 cannot push a std bullet fast enough to come apart in most cases if the proper weight bullet is used. However a lot of folks will go ahead and take a marginal shot thinking the premium bullet is going to make up the diference. I have used Noslers in a 7 mag and 300 mag. The critters died about the same as using Sierras. Most of my elk are shot within 50 yards in heavy timber so a 220 gr Rn Sierra does the job in an 06. This year a 50 caliber maxiball did the same. Of course I hunt within 100 miles of my home, and don't hunt bear or dangerous game.I also think, judging by what I see at the range that some hunters/shooters tend not to practice as much with the premiums.So if you think you need them, use them, but don't belittle the hunters that still use the standards. The proof in the pudding is the game on the ground, downed with a well placed shot.

I have two recent observations regarding this topic. First, last fall my hunting partner shot a 4x4 mule deer going away in the rear flank. The 140 gr. ballistic tip blew away the entire rear ham but didn't appear to entire the body cavity. The 7mm Mag. velocity, IMHO, was too high for that shot and bullet.<P>Second, I shot a Oryx bull this summer that someone had already shot with an 8mm. The entrance wound was apparent, yet healed over, and was place right behind the shoulder. A portion of the bullet jacket entired the lungs but was found encased in a cyst. If the gentleman shooting the 8mm had a premium bullet he would have collect the bull.

I don't believe there is any belittlement here,just an open discussion.<P>It has been mentioned several times,with complete accuracy,that with the velocity that the '06 generates,typical "standard" bullets behave as premiums. For years,some of the highest intensity cartridges received nothing but bad press,regarding their spotty performance. That had nothing to do with the cartridges itself,strictly the projectile.<P>The key to reliable results,is to match your cartridge's velocity,to a projectile that will handily harness it's speed,for the task you ask of it. <P>There hasn't been a bullet made yet,that was too good. However,they sell ones that aren't worth a **** for Hunting,by the ton. The trick is to know what you need,before you fall short. I've been there,dead square on the wrong end of poor bullet performance. I would not wish that on anyone. That particular event,pitted a bullet that should have reliably held together(140gr Ballistic Tip),launched out of a sedate cartridge(7-08). Could of been a fluke,but I wasn't one to try her again. Long before that event,I had been a proponent of good bullets in general and the X in particular. I let my guard down and was bit,and did not care for that feeling(I got the critter,but it wasn't pretty).<P>Today,I shoot bullets that are rated several notches above what is "required",for the specific cartridge. I shoot the best I can get and will continue,UNTIL they make something better.<P>I like them to hit the ground,that suits me best and I strive to make it as sudden as possible. Good bullets can only hedge that bet and can NEVER hurt.........

Big Stick,<P>We need to factor in in this discussion the improper use of premium bullets. Just as we can pick too frnagible a bullet for a certain application, we can pick one that is to "tough" and fails to properly expand--leaving a small wound channel and a slow death for the critter.<P>I have seen both type of bullet failures. <P>Blaine

I've whistled 140gr X's out of my XP-100 in 7-08 and crunched stuff at 300+yds. You do the math on the impact velocity(grin).<P>I'll stay steadfast,loading the good stuff........