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Originally Posted by Timbermaster
It didnt take long before the wolf was killing more bull elk than hunters, and we had a lot of hunters. Don't let this happen in Colorado.

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Not saying wolves are not an issue/problem. But, you might want to correlate some of that data you've posted with the requirements of the elk management plan or the state and the population objective numbers in it...

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I was sitting on a side hill on coal company property in Meeker, second combined season thinking I was going to die of heat exhaustion and sun stroke when someone from the ranch next door spooked a small herd of elk by me. Luckily, one was a legal bull and I shot him at 200 yards just before he got into some really thick oak brush, it was the only bull shot in camp, I got really lucky!

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The wild variations in snow storm and then heat and ice killed off the lead cows that liked to stay high so the migration occurs earlier - couple that with slightly less population and the numbers go down.

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Originally Posted by 17_wizzer


I also believe more licenses issued and thus more hunters in the field

2015 221,274 elk hunters
2016 223,745 elk hunters

I guess 2500 more hunters isn't much as far as statistical significance, sure felt like I saw more guys in the field.


There are 223K Elk hunters? 39K elk killed? Thats a success rate of >6%! Those are horrible odds.

Are there really that many elk hunters in CO?


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That number includes anyone who buys a license, so it depends on how you define "elk hunter." In any given year for whatever reason, some don't get out much.



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Originally Posted by KC
There is a Colorado law that prohibits the introduction of wolves into the state. I suppose there will someday be a reckoning between that law and Federal law that mandates wolves to be reintroduced into Rocky Mountain National Park.

The season for coyotes is year round and there is no bag or possession limit. At rifle range, I can't tell the difference between a coyote and a wolf and I shoot every coyote that I see.

S.S.S. I hope every Colorado hunter knows what that means.

I hunted elk during the second season last year in Northern Colorado. I saw only one live cow. I saw more orange than elk. I got some kind of intestinal thing and it made me real weak, so I left early. You can't expect to be successful if you don't put in the time. So it was my own fault. There were six people in camp and two went home with small bulls.

KC



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I wonder if this years snows will be rough on the Co elk and deer herds.

Any ideas or news on that yet.


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I was even warm during third rifle season so I wasn't going to be very picky and shot the bigger of two 5x5's that I saw on the third day.


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Originally Posted by jmgraham1986
Originally Posted by 17_wizzer


I also believe more licenses issued and thus more hunters in the field

2015 221,274 elk hunters
2016 223,745 elk hunters

I guess 2500 more hunters isn't much as far as statistical significance, sure felt like I saw more guys in the field.


There are 223K Elk hunters? 39K elk killed? Thats a success rate of >6%! Those are horrible odds.

Are there really that many elk hunters in CO?


Might wanna check your math there...

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So, the success rate is actually about 17.5 percent. 17.5 percent is greater than 6 percent, so he was correct but not accurate. grin


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It was one of the worst hunting seasons I have seen. In my opinion it was weather related for the most part. I knew where the elk were but I didn't want to go into where they were, high and in the thick, far from the road. At 57 I didn't want a really nasty multi day pack out. The statistics are skewed because there is a relatively small percentage that kills an elk almost every year. That means that most of the people hunting don't ever kill an elk.

This was the first year I many that I didn't fill at least one elk tag. I was too busy with harvest to go in September and the weather didn't help my B list cow tag hunt.

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BeanMan hit it on the head, the elk were up high way high even in the fourth season. A co-worker of mine and both of his sons all scored on elk last fall all were taken above 12,000 feet and all were taken in the fourth season. Alot of shoe leather is necessary or in their case shoe leather and mules!


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Yeah - 2016 sucked.

The fall was very warm (as have been the last couple) and dry. Not a good combination.

I hunted 4th rifle and while i'd got into elk while scouting over the summer (i was miles from any access road), they just weren't there when the season arrived.

So then i hunted lower, but just couldn't locate them. There was a camp of horseback hunters not far from me that had hunted the area for 20+ years and they didn't see any either.

Heavy snows in the high country this winter will hopefully keep the water supply good in the seeps, etc over the summer. Just hoping for a cool/cold Fall and Winter for 2017.

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Total lack of snow.

It RAINED at 9400 ft in NOVEMBER up at our high country place. That was a first for me in 55 years of elk hunting that I can recall. Friggin' Al Gore and his Global Warming anyway.......


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Doesn't take long for the wolf haters to show up--next thing we know it'll be the wolves fault women and children in Syria were gassed......


Originally Posted by Timbermaster
Originally Posted by tomk
wolves?


Yes the hungry kind. The USFS had a "target population" OF 300 WOLVES IN MONTANA WHEN INTRODUCED INTO YNP. THIS MAP IS 15 YEARS LATER. These dots are packs, not individuals. With enough food (our elk) they multiply like rats.


There is the United States Forest Service (USFS) and the United States Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) but I've be darned if I've ever heard of the USFS.....United States Flounder Service?

Then again, it seems that elk numbers are growing in Montana--even in the highest density wolf areas...

http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/management/elk/

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/st...as-elk-hunting-season-expanded/74421088/


KC,

There is no federal mandate to restore wolves to Colorado. When wolf restoration in Montana and Idaho was being planned, the ESA required a review of all potential wolf habitat and most likely areas for wolf restoration, at least in the Western US. Based on a literature review, the Uncompahgre Plateau and RMNP were chosen as the best habitat for Colorado. Also, the state legislature passed legislation that prohibited the CPW from restoring wolves and wolverines in Colorado, but knew better than to attempt to antagonize the feds.

Ironically it was Vail Resorts who intervened on behalf of restoring the lynx in Colorado (long, long story that has everything to do with Vail Resorts and their "investment" in the Blue Sky expansion--the last known habitat of the last known lynx population in Colorado) and convinced the legislature to light a fire under CPW to restore lynx and retain management control (with USFWS's legal permission and whole-hearted blessing). Otherwise, at least during that period of time, CPW couldn't have cared less about the lynx.

That decision to restore lynx here has insulated Colorado from having to deal with all the crap that the feds (USFWS) has to go through if they are required to begin restoring lynx in other states.
Colorado could do the same thing with wolves. And what would make it even easier for Colorado is a nice, healthy wolf population one state to the north. That way Colorado wouldn't be dealing with a species that is edge of extinction, instead they would have a lot of leeway.


For others:
Currently, nobody has seen a wolf in Colorado in a couple years, and when occasional individual does show up they tend to have a short lifespan--and not from SSS. I-70 has killed more wolves than anything else here in Colorado.

What can happen is that a breeding pair appears in Colorado, and then the ESA can potentially kick in (with a lotta help from lawsuits). I've been arguing for a while the smartest thing Colorado can do is the same thing they did with lynx. That way Colorado can keep management control of wolves.

Originally Posted by Spotshooter
The wild variations in snow storm and then heat and ice killed off the lead cows that liked to stay high so the migration occurs earlier - couple that with slightly less population and the numbers go down.


Of all the myths and old wives tales I've heard about wildlife, this one has gotta rank right up there........

So Spotshooter, answer me this; So as all these elk descend (except for the now perished lead cows) at what altitude do elk turn back into deer?...............


Casey





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Everybody wants to kill elk until it's time to put your pack and boots on and go where elk are.

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Originally Posted by Tanner
Everybody wants to kill elk until it's time to put your pack and boots on and go where elk are.

Tanner


That's crazy talk. Now let's get back to talking about the best cartridge for elk. I like my .375 RUM. I need it for those "raking shots in heavy timber." Use enough gun, and if you can't handle the recoil, take up knitting. DRT, baybee!!



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If your winter was anywhere as tough as ours, this year will be the worst in recent history. The elk and deer herds in So. Idaho are in big trouble.

Last edited by centershot; 04/11/17.

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Originally Posted by Tanner
Everybody wants to kill elk until it's time to put your pack and boots on and go where elk are.

Tanner


Agreed. It was harder than I expected, but the elk were still there. Just took a couple days to extract a bull if you shot one in the places they had retreated to in the warm November weather.



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Hmmm,,,,, saw many elk. Two small groups hung around ( 30-40 animals each). Saw two really nice bulls. Naturally day before second rifle started. My season lasted about 7 hours opening day. Matter of fact old son was trying to get a deer and several cows nearly stepped on him,,,,,,, twice.

We were hunting family ranch so I think they were kinda hiding out on the place. Happens often. I know this is atypical for most hunts. Just thought I'd throw it out. I will admit I was sweating when I shot my bull. Young son shot his bull out of same group about 5 minutes earlier!! Wasn't the choicest of weather. Ranch is about 8700' alt.



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