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Originally Posted by jimmyp
I think most of the factory 10mm is under loaded.


No "think" about it, it really is. That's one of the oddities of the 10mm, with most factory ammo being loaded to 40 S&W specs (or "FBI-lite" loads), and a lot of guns designed to run that ammo instead of real 10mm loads. That does not mean that 40 S&W is equal to the 10mm, as some here have claimed.

Last edited by Yondering; 05/01/17.
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Overall fire power goes to the 9mm, with 15/17 shot mags and lower recoil pounding the target with sufficient lead weight isn't a problem, I like the 40 and own a number of them. I've always packed the 40, but recently have moved to the 9mm for daily wear...much smaller and lighter, tho only 7 rounds on board with a single stack.

Do I feel "under gunned" ?, not in the least.

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Just astounding this is still a subject of debate. I guess there are just some really slow learners!

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I live in the Rockies west of Denver. When I travel to the city there are human threats. When at home, sometimes working in the yard there are animal threats. So far in Colorado I have had no direct human threats, but have had many bear encounters including break-in.

I carry a 40 cal because it is concealable, I can have rounds suitable for defense against humans like 180 gr JHP Gold Dots and I can also have the smallest round chambered for the Double Tap Wide Hard Cast Flat Nose bullet, in the 40 cal I use the 200 Gr at 1000 fps from a short barrel. This round is probably a 3 ft of bear penetration. 9mm has no comparable dangerous game loads or I would probably carry that.


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Originally Posted by mountainclmbr
I live in the Rockies west of Denver. When I travel to the city there are human threats. When at home, sometimes working in the yard there are animal threats. So far in Colorado I have had no direct human threats, but have had many bear encounters including break-in.

I carry a 40 cal because it is concealable, I can have rounds suitable for defense against humans like 180 gr JHP Gold Dots and I can also have the smallest round chambered for the Double Tap Wide Hard Cast Flat Nose bullet, in the 40 cal I use the 200 Gr at 1000 fps from a short barrel. This round is probably a 3 ft of bear penetration. 9mm has no comparable dangerous game loads or I would probably carry that.


Phil Shoemaker killed a charging brown bear with Buffalo Bore 9mm 147 gr. +P hard cast. I'm not advocating for or against but it's there and obviously can work in a pinch.


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Buffalo Bore makes some fun stuff. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=155

The 325 Wfn at 1325fps in a 45 colt is a doozy.

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The .40 was merely an attempt to gain mass in a smaller 9mm platform. If they could have done it with a .45, they would have.

Cooper and Guns and ammo experimented with improving the Browning HP many years ago with a .40 caliber cartridge. They succeeded in gaining some energy and delivering a little extra mass, but the gun needed to be modified a bit. It was interesting, but most hand gunners at the time, weren't all that intrigued.

Even Cooper with his obvious (and earned) bias toward the .45acp, realized that in the triad, power was 2nd to accuracy, and more important than speed, whether the caliber was .452, .40 or .356.

I don't, and never have owned a .40 of any manufacture. But I've shot a bunch and respect their accuracy and power. I just couldn't get excited. Just like the .327. Why?

Use what you want, but don't expect to find some answer to a question that can't really be answered. Which is better? In many cases, depending on the application, a .22lr is just fine. A far better question would be, what the hell reason exists for the .380?


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Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
A far better question would be, what the hell reason exists for the .380?

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MOGC,

The bear Phil killed with the 9mm was a pretty big one, too. When it was skinned, the nose of one of the Buffalo Bore 147's was poking out of the shoulder on the far side of the bear. It didn't go through the hide, but there aren't any vitals in bear hide.


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Over the years I've owned 5 different 40s.

Eventually sold all of them when I decided if I need more "oomph" in a semi than the 9mm provides, a 45 was a pretty damn good answer.
YMMV.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
A far better question would be, what the hell reason exists for the .380?

[Linked Image]


Doesn't convince me. But I'm glad you like it.


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Can't make a 9mm that small.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Can't make a 9mm that small.


Nope. Truth there. But then, you can make a 9mm small enough to matter.


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Those tiny .380's fall into the "better than nothin' " category for times a guy can't carry a gun for some reason. Especially with today's ammo. While I do own and carry one sometimes as a BUG, in my opinion they do bit of a disservice to the handgun world by offering a sense of security those who want to carry concealed w/o making any concessions to carrying an effective handgun. Since only a small percentage of those who carry handguns concealed ever get into a gunfight, those who carry crappy guns never have to face the true realities of their gun selection.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
A far better question would be, what the hell reason exists for the .380?

[Linked Image]


If we're not careful, you & I might actually agree on something smile


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there is very little ammunition that you can find for the .380 that consistently gives 12 inches of penetration except for ball, that said sometimes a Kahr 380 in your pocket is all that you can carry.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
MOGC,

The bear Phil killed with the 9mm was a pretty big one, too. When it was skinned, the nose of one of the Buffalo Bore 147's was poking out of the shoulder on the far side of the bear. It didn't go through the hide, but there aren't any vitals in bear hide.



I believe the bear weighed about 900 pounds is what Phil said.



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Originally Posted by SargeMO

If we're not careful, you & I might actually agree on something smile

We agree on a great deal.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by SargeMO

If we're not careful, you & I might actually agree on something smile

We agree on a great deal.
A great deal would be a $300 model 29.

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i suspect from the comments that not too many actually watched the video, and the different tests he ran through, which is what i found interesting. He wasn't really commenting per se one caliber was better than another in all things, but in some things the 9mm did better, others the 40. It's what rocks your boat.
but the tests were interesting, particularly the last one with several layers of clothing a bunch of meat in side the shirt, and what the same bullets in both calibers did. Both would in my thought have worked pretty good.
I have never been in love with the 40 although i own a number of them. I was never totally in love with the 9mm either from years ago
when i would find hollow points plugging up.
I am in love with a 250gr to 280grain .45 slug doing about 1000fps.


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