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My approach

Hammond Game Getter, comes in many different chamberings

Hammond Game Getter



He includes a swaging die so you can tap through buckshot to size to the appropriate diameter. That said, I used .310 diameter Hornady Muzzleloading Roundballs (.310 diameter). I didn't size them at all and they fit nicely in the case neck.

I tried initially on another target and a center hold put them at the bottom ring (about 1" low). New target with sight almost at top ring. 3 shots at 20 yards using Brown (power level 2)






Completely penetrated a pressure treated 1x4.






Wife said 'You didn't shoot the eye out', which I didn't with the 4th shot on target, but good enough.






It was a HOOT to play with.

Yup,....now we're back into the Building supplies sourcing,....the common "Ramset" charge.

As noted prior OUTSTANDING ballistic uniformity, on a shot to shot basis.

.....DIRT cheap, when properly sourced.

GTC

Dayum, that is cool stuff I never heard of....thanks.

Talked earlier about that variant of the pursuit and some of my most convenient success came from a round ball load in a .44 Mag case. Balls were something like .433" diameter and I sized them down to .430", loaded and shot. The sizing puts a wee belt on the ball which is easy to align. There were a couple of grains of Bullseye under them but they shot better than most of the cartridges explored. They weren't "cat sneeze" at all, more of a "hog fart".

I'm wondering...if I got another phone call in the cue. Awaiting one from Grand Island, NE at the moment.

damint now I have to have one of those.... this site is going to break me

Dan,

Yep, the Cooper cartridge's "marketing" was a flustercluck from the get-go, mostly because of Cooper himself. I got to know Cooper some in the couple of years before he departed the company, and the only reason Cooper rifles back then made any headway was their quality. It sure wasn't due to Dan Cooper's marketing skills, and certainly not his people skills, which were just about non-existent. One good example was the time he accused another company he partnered with on a gun-writer prairie dog shoot, where Cooper brought several rifles for field-testing. On the last evening one of the Cooper rifles couldn't be located right away, and he accused the other company of stealing it--but within a few minutes it was located in one of the SEVERAL trucks used to transport people to the shooting grounds. Even so, the Cooper cartridge just might have made it during the recent shortage, despite Mr. Cooper.

I'm quite familiar with the 225348, as as previously mentioned found the one's from my mold shot from my Ruger No. 1 mostly accurate as-cast, without sizing or a gas-check. But the heel of bullets from mine, cast from wheelweight lead, averages .220", indicating Lyman may have dinked with the design some.

If you'd like me to, I could mention your concept to a few people in the industry. With the low cost of some very accurate bolt-action rifles made today, it would be pretty easy to make one with two bolts for not much more--and with the volatility of American politics, another rimfire debacle is very possible.

Steelhead,

Thanks for that. That was neat to see. I enjoy learning new stuff about this hobby, even the esoteric stuff.

And as you see, it uses the Ramset blanks (I use the browns)

John, I would appreciate your discussion with such folks very much. Mentioned earlier that I await a call back from Hornady and may touch base with a few others, but it will not carry the weight of your thoughts/suggestions. Tell them if they do it, they will make money. Shazaam!

I guarantee it actually, I'll send them some of mine. I'm as lazy as anyone if I have an easy path before me.

D

Dan,

Will let you know what transpires!

Hi Scott,

I have a Hammond for the .308 Winchester, which works pretty well, especially in my Merkel single-shot. But I've never found accuracy to be what DigitalDan is looking for, in fact have found it about the same as yours, which is fine for 25-yard shooting on small game but not much more. In fact have never been able to do significantly better with buckshot in reduced loads in several cartridges, even after carefully sorting the shot for uniform weight and diameter.

What kind of groups do you get at 50? Or have you tried that far?

Are there any current sources for .22CCM brass? I did a quick search (on GB) and found some for a buck apiece- anything else out there?

A quick Google search for Ramset blanks turned up prices in the $8-10 range per 100. Is that the general "on the street" price for them? My thoughts immediately turned to having a rimfire single shot chambered for them with a standard .22 throat of say .225 or .226 (to utilize an as-cast soft bullet), and proceeding with the breech seating approach. Seat bullet in the throat/leade with an insertion tool- simple lever arrangement or a push tool- then insert case with powder (or Ramset cartridge), and shoot. (Oh that poor old Stevens 44 that keeps calling out to me for resurrection.) A quite common practice when single shot target rifles ruled the shooting ranges a century ago. Admittedly not for the rapid fire tin can plinker or the hunter stumbling around in the woods, necessarily.

Money no object: build a single shot .22 or .25 target rifle with false muzzle and muzzle load the bullet, using a Ramset cartridge for propulsion. Shades of H.M.Pope, Schoyen, et al!

No, I haven't tried it at 50. I'm guessing they'll drop pretty fast, I figure it is what it is, fun and quiet for short distances. I might give it a try at 50 to see.

Yeah, for what I use mine for (mostly whacking forest grouse and the occasional rabbit) the accuracy's fine, since they're almost always within 25-30 yards, and often much closer.

Gad Zooks! I knew this was coming, sure as sunrise.

I have one of those, a Barry Darr build with a .38-55 Basic, .40 caliber 350 gr greaser with a pointy nose and a false muzzle. Boom! It is a curiosity. It was built on a Highwall action, sports a Unertal celestial observatory and even though it can plink a flea on a squirrel's back, it is a little bit much for field craft.

I like your style.

All of this talk has made me curious about what kind of accuracy I can achieve with the buckshot load in the Martini if I really worked at it. I never considered the load to be anything but a quick and dirty way to shoot my Martinis.

Mine have always been excellent cast bullet rifles,...probably because of their extremely smooth, lazy twist barrels.

The problem I encountered early on with the load was the inability to get consistent ignition of the propellent. The 50 grain ball which is only slightly in contact with the rifling just doesn't create enough pressure to successfully use anything but small doses of the fastest handgun powder.

I tried small charges of Blue Dot in some once with the idea that a slower powder would start the ball down the bore less abruptly than a faster powder and might allow faster velocities without causing the ball to strip the rifling.

Didn't work. After a few rounds the front of the bench was covered with unburned flakes of Blue Dot.

I think I'll try Titewad next. I've had a lb rattling around in there for a while. The manufacturer says not to use it in anything but shotgun loads,....but you know,..

I've found that it works well with HBWC's in the .32 long.

Bristoe,

The tentative conclusion I came to with buckshot in "modern" rifles is the rifling twist is too much for fine accuracy, especially since buckshot tends to be not quite as uniform a round bullets. Generally I've used a big enough size to be able to swage them down just enough to get firm contact with the rifling.

One of the semi-successes was with Hornady swaged 00 buck in a Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP. Was trying to work up a cheap practice load, and 3.0 grains of Unique matched the velocity of the Speer factory load, and shot a little better. But it sure wasn't a "long range" load!

Bristoe,

Ah! I was going to suggest the next size up and swage it down. In my case it didn't help much but I didn't work with it. More or less figured the twist was too fast, like ball versus conicals in a muzzle loader. Be careful with Titewad, think Bullseye. Notes say Titewad is extremely position sensitive, in an 8mm x 57 "cat sneeze" round anyway.

Well, just in the spirit of things I'll throw in two bits on shooting balls in guns meant for conicals. Always figured that all the ways to skin that cat had not been explored, then I read a Seyfried article in Double Gun Journal wherein he paper patched a round ball. Oh Jesus.....

I started with a .433 Speer ball supply, picked up a custom .422 Lee push thru sizer.....why? Because that was my go to diameter for PP conicals and if I'm gonna...

It was tedious but educational. Did a WAG on the charge, set the ball(s) in a lightly flare case mouth, nudged them down to about half way in and did a mild taper crimp. Yes, they fed fine thru the 77/44. They went boom and crossed the Chrony at about 1800 fps as I recall. Saw no need to pursue the load further as the first group was in the 1.5" range at 50 yards. There was a hint there I did not pick up on right away. You see, I wet patch, dry and then finger lube PP rounds with a 50/50 Beeswax/Vaseline lube.

The next logical step was two balls stacked which equaled about 240 grains of lead. Rolled the dice and used a charge of what I dunno, probably 2400, that was the suggested start load for that bullet weight in one of the Lyman manuals. It was amazing. Two of the prettiest groups you ever wanted to see on the 50 yard line, one fairly centered and the other out to 10 o'clock about 3, 4, maybe 5". Both groups were in the 1.5" range, maybe 1.75". Velocity was in the same range as I recall, about 1800 fps.

I thought "Hot Dayum! I got a hog whacker!". So I did the next logical thing, loaded a single ball with what I thought was max load. It crossed the Chrony at 2400 fps and did not strike the target or backer. I have no idea where it went.

Subsequent to that I have shot .22 balls in the Hornet, .25 ball in the .25s and .310 balls in the thutty-thutty. They worked so-so to the point that I carried it. 3-4" 50 yards groups then it bored me. Time passed. Ancient defeats bubbled in the background. I purchased the Zimmer previously mentioned and the seller suggested that I grease my balls when I loaded.

"With what?"
"Whatever you want. I use SPG, just a wipe with the fingers and go."

He was right about that, not only on the Zimmer, but on other balls as well. It is not a Galactic scope of improvement, but definitely noticeable. Another free tip: It works on .22 RF ammo too.

Just about any style of lube will do the trick.


I say unto thee, "GREASE THINE OWN BALLS!"

It is glorious!

Dan

PS: Please note that most of my rifles are not as twisted as all y'all's. However, my weird little Zimmer which is stupid accurate, has a 1:7.5" twist. That's pretty odd for a ~100 year old gun.

Haven't figured out how he put 12 grooves in a .17 cal barrel either. They aren't shallow grooves. The bullet exits the barrel looking like the trimmed pine cone from hell. If you use a magnifying glass to look at it.

John (the wise?),

Have you recently spent 40 days in the desert eating grasshoppers?

That statement seems quite prophetic.

Geno

PS, any young folks reading this might just want to take note if you shoot rimfires

PPS, I would also appreciate you bending an ear or three as such a rifle might be very desirable for a guy like me who will be retiring to that infamous Left Coast state. The centerfire reloadable option will be a boon, assuming the availability of suitable light weight non-tox bullets to feed it. (Varmint grenades perhaps?)