Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 2.75" S&W M69 (5 shot L Frame .44 Mag) - First Impressions

Been puzzling over this for a while. For me, short barreled magnum level handguns seem to recoil less than their longer barreled counter parts. Specifically, S&W M69 (5 shot L Frame) 2.75” .44 mag and a 2 ½” Ruger Alaskan in .480. Also noticed it, but to a lesser extent with a Freedom Arms M97 3 ½” .45 Colt shooting 300+ gr bullets and H110.

My theory is lower velocity and less gun momentum (longer barrel, heavier gun generates more momentum). Don’t really have a clue, just thinking? out loud.

Was reminded of this when I got a new S&W M69 2.75” .44 mag a couple of days ago. I have been amazed and pleasantly surprised at how easy shooting (from a recoil perspective) this little revolver is with Magnum level ammo. I’ve since shot a 133 rnds thru the gun over the last three days (Mostly magnum level ammo).

Some excerpts from my original posts on other sites regarding the new 2.75” M69:

Fit and function looked fine.

Cylinder throats approx .4295. Measured with pin/plug gauges (minus verity) -- .429 go, .430 no go in all five throats. Couldn’t find my feeler gages, so didn’t’ measure bbl/cyl gap. Weighs 35 oz unloaded and 39.6 oz loaded w/260gr WFNGCs – both with Hogue 500 X Frame grisp.

Took it to the range for limited workout (time constrained).

Ended up putting the X Frame 500 Hogues on the gun. After that all was good. Holsters for my 396 fit the M69 2.75" perfectly.

All groups shot at 25 yds rested. The lead loads were just some ammo I had around for testing other guns -- I'm sure that a load could be (will be) developed for this particular gun.

The .44 special equivalent loads were easy shooting. The .44 mag equivalent (H110) loads were not at all unpleasant (in fact quite comfortable) with the Hogue 500s.



Misc lead loads:


Mag loads w/H110 - I'm very happy with the two groups with H110 considering old eyes, iron sights and short sight radius.



Here are some chronograph results:

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F. Larger sample could change the results a bit. Largest ES was 42 fps.

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps
240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,126 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat) 1,119 fps avg
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps

For comparison purposes these were shot a while back from a 4 ¼” M69: Same temp, distance from the muzzle.

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,224 fps
240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,230 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,220 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (deep seat) 1,140 fps avg
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,182

The more I shoot this little gun, the more I like it.

Paul

I could be happy with that one for sure.

nice shooting, nice gun

Looks good. Does the ejector allow for full ejection of a loaded round in this barrel length?

You turbo suck!!! My LGS hasn't been able to get me one yet

I may have to give in and buy one of the ones already posted on Gunbroker.

By the way, my 4.25" Version is extremely accurate and fun to shoot.

I lucked out today!!! My LGS finally got me one! Can't wait to try it out!

Damn nice and versatile little packing revolver- and an excellent write-up. Thank you.

It's there a 45 Colt version?

Full length ejector rod, same a 4 1/4" version.

No .45 Colt version.

CHL -- interested in your impressions.

Really like this gun. Easy and fun to shoot (still can believe how well it handles recoil). I've had it out 4 or 5 times over the last week and always leave wishing I'd brought more ammo.

Paul

How did the 325 gr loads shoot?

Not great at 25 yds (could be me however). Also, POI about 5" - 6" higher at 25yds vs 260gr w/23.0gr H110.



Here's a group shot at 50 yds the other day -- same load that shot best at 25 yds (pic in orig post).



I'm really enjoying this little revolver. With loads it likes, it shoots amazingly well for me.

Paul

Nice gun!!!

Thanks for the 325 gr load results. I'm not surprised they shoot higher... that is an amazing amount of penetration through any kind of angry animal that walks this Earth in a very small package! I'm guessing that the recoil was several notches up from the "lighter" loads though?

Have you looked at the Ruger GP 100 3" 44 special? Nice gun and good trigger. If I'm using it for PD I like using a gun and a load that
is going to give me an edge, recovering from recoil to give me a faster 2nd and 3rd shot.
I've got Ruger Alaskans in 44 mag, 454 Casull, and 480, and while none of them are bad
to shoot using special loads in the 44 and the 454 (45 Colt, even hot loads) gives me an edge.
Nothing wrong with the Smith either, just saying.

Does the model 69 come drilled and tapped for scope mount bases? I'm wondering if there is a simple way to mount a miniaturized red dot sight on it?

My 61-year-old eyes don't see front sites very well anymore, but I'm thinking a miniature red dot sight on something that size and power would be a lot of fun! Maybe a Crimson Trace Laser grip too... (I really really hate not seeing a front site very well anymore...).

They are not drilled and tapped. You'd be better off to get a set of the Crimson Trace Laser grips if you can't see the sights clearly anymore. The red lasers ain't worth a damn in bright sunlight, though. The green lasers are more expensive, but worth it IMO.
I'll be ordering a set for my new Model 69 snubby .44 in a few days! Just got my yearly birthday coupon from Midway, yesterday. Haven't had time to shoot mine yet, but I'll post a target when I do.

Marlin, my LGS just got in one of the new GP 100's in .44 spec a few days ago. I really like it and it will be my next handgun purchase. A friend just sold me a NIB Benelli Light Weight 20 ga auto loader fir a price that was WAY to cheap to pass up, so once again, I'll have to let my mad money funds get rejuvenated before I can pick up one also. .44 specials are one of my many addictions

Only one notch. Pretty manageable actually.

Paul

Yes most new (all) S&W revolvers are drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Just remove the rear sight their are three holes in the rear sight mortiss.

Here's are pretty trim little mount for Red Dots

https://www.allchingunparts.com/col...ts/smith-wesson-mini-sts-scope-mount-new

Here's a picture of the Alchin mounted on my 629 Classic DX



Both Weaver and Weigand make bases that fits the S&Ws. I've only tried the Weaver -- It will mar the top strap a bit with use.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=Weaver+s%26W+mount+base&userItemsPerPage=48

Here's a pic of the Weaver with a 4x Leupold on my 4 1/4" M69. I was using it to test loads:



Paul

Well, I've wanted a model 69 from the first time I saw one, and this thread put me over the edge. I ordered one on the way home from work today, although I'm getting one with the 4.25" barrel. Not sure I should take advice from someone that says shooting a snub-nosed .480 Ruger isn't so bad!

I have a 1980's vintage 657 no dash on its way to me, it's the 3" N frame round butt in .41 magnum and am really looking forward to shooting it. I enjoy short barreled magnum revolvers as well, especially if they have comfortable grips, mine has the Smith & Wesson smooth Combat's on it & those are about as good as it gets.

You can load hot heavy loads for hunting or long range rock cracking work, or run specials in them for a relaxing plinking session, I reload so I can cover the whole spectrum.

That's a nice looking 44 mag, enjoy.


41

I picked up my 4.25" model 69 yesterday. First thing was to get those ugly rubber grips off and replace them with a set of Ahrend's I already had. Then off the the range today.

I wish this had a happy ending, but I had three misfires out of 50 rounds. One of those rounds fired on the second try and the other two took two more tries. I sure didn't expect this, but maybe I should have. This is the second gun out of about the last five I've purchased that had light primer strikes. The other one was a Henry .45-70.

I use Winchester primers to reload for models 629, two 29s, 686, 586 and a 442 as well as a couple of Ruger revolvers. I guess I've used them for a couple of thousand rounds or probably more and can't remember one light primer strike.

I think it handles well and has a good trigger, with no visible defects. But I don't have much use for a gun that won't fire every time. Not sure if I'll keep it as a range gun or get rid of it. Maybe try another brand of primers, but it's gonna be hard to really trust it, unfortunately.

That sucks.. Best of luck..

Have you opened it up and looked inside? If not, I suggest you do unless you are not comfortable doing so. Otherwise send it back to S&W. I can't imagine getting rid of a defective firearm.

If I had 3 misfires out of 50 with hand loads, I wouldn't necessarily call that the fault of the handgun. I'd shoot at least 100 rounds of factory ammo before I made that judgement call.
And if it was still having misfires, I'd call S&W first and get it shipped backed to them for repair! They have an excellent customer service department and warranty repair.

Yeah, well I knew someone would say that. That's why I pointed out that I reload for several other revolvers (I didn't even mention a BFR and a Freedom Arms model 97) as well as three Smith and Wessons that my wife owns. In thousands of reloads, I cannot remember one single misfire. Not that I expected that everyone would actually read that.

But this brand new revolver has three misfires in 50 rounds, and the revolver itself isn't a factor - really? I'm not interested in owning a gun that can only shoot factory ammo, so I'm not going that route. As I said, I may keep it as a range gun, but there is something quite a bit different in its performance compared to all the other revolvers in my home.

Call or email Smith & Wesson. They'll send you a pre paid return shipping label. They will fix you up at no cost to you other than some aggrevation.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/brands/sw

I have three 4 1/4" guns. One has over 5,000 rnds down the pipe another almost 3,000 and third was function checked, sighted in and put in the safe as a backup. I now have almost 500 rnds thru the 2 3/4" gun that's the subject of this post. I have never had a misfire with these guns. 99 percent have been handloads using CCI, Win and Federal primers. Not that this helps you, just sayin'.

S&W has had some "short" firing pin problems in the recent past. People reporting the problem on the S&W forum have been taken care of by S&W under warranty.

I know it sucks. You gun should work 100 percent with any ammo and S&W CS will make it right.

Paul

Stra

Strain screw tight? Screw on new grips not interfering with mainspring?

I'd check strain screw first and then put original grips on just for giggles.

Yeah that would pretty much have been me. Until today.

Steelhead, when I swapped grips I checked the strain screw, but could the new grips be interfering with the main spring? That's seems like a very interesting possibility. I took those grips off another L frame (a 686) that I've never had trouble with, but I can sure see how it could happen. I'm going to give your suggestion a try.

Thanks!

You could also put something between the strain screw and the mainspring (like a spent primer) to put a little more torque on it as a 'just to see'.

If that works you might just need a little longer strain screw, again assuming that it's currently tight.

i do have one of those, and have mostly shot cast in it from 180's up to 300grain in 41mag. latest experiment was 41special. Mine has had a action job on it to improve on what was already excellent. I put the smith grips back on it a few months ago, just cause they are purty. Mostly i had hogues on it. A 250grain cast lead hollow point would take care of most everything. I did buy last fall the same gun in a 629 44magnum.
you can't really tell them apart on a table.

I took the Ahrend's grip off, and when I pried one half off it was clear to see that the other half was pressed hard against the side of the main spring. I'm going to test it out tomorrow with the factory grip. If that doesn't help, I'll take a spent primer and try that trick too. I have hope.

1st rule of thumb when troubleshooting: Put shiet back to how it was before you f*cked with it.

So I am thinking the grips made a difference. With the Ahrend's yesterday I had misfires in 3 of 50 rounds. Today using the factory grips I had 2 of 100. So either I have a weak main spring or maybe the firing pin is just a bit short. I was going to try the spent primer thing, but there's not enough clearance between the main spring and the frame. I'm going to look around for something else to use as a shim.

Either the screw is too short or something with pin

RoninPhx, I had a 250 grain LBT carry load I liked, it used a hefty charge of Lil 'Gun & a standard primer in the magnum case. I'll move move away from that powder due to its lack of a flame retardant, probably go for AA#9 or WW296. Real good all around heavy working load in the 41 magnum.

I'm thinking the pin. I guess I'll call S&W this week. I know they'll ask me what ammo I'm using and if I say handholds they'll just tell me not to do that. So I'll got to buy a box of factory .44 ammo and try it. I don't think I've ever done that before. Not looking forward to finding out how much it will cost.

Guys, here's an update. I did some searching this morning and it seems that everyone who shoots revolvers competitively uses Federal primers because they ignite easier in double action shooting where the tension on the main spring has been eased to lighten the trigger pull. I had a brick of Federals in the closet, so I primed a box of empty cartridges and headed to the garage for a test. Not one misfire in 50 rounds, so I repeated the test and same thing. Then I primed 50 more, loaded with powder and bullets and headed to the range. Another 50 or 50. So not one misfire in 150 tries.

Unlike loading for my hunting rifles I've never been particular about primers for my handguns. I've bought Federals but didn't care for them much because of the way they tumble out of the box sideways and then make me pick through them to get the right side up in the primer pan. My thinking on that changed today.

I've got some Alamont grips on order. I hope they won't hinder the main spring. I really don't like the factory grips that I'm using now.

Might be the ammo rather than the gun. Never had a single failure using factory ammo. Does not take a lot to render a primer dead, from handling. Just sayin...

Yeah, original thought there, I said when I switched to Federal Primers I had no more misfires. And I took a count. I reload or have reloaded for 13 different revolvers in the recent past and have had zero misfires, using the same primers and technique I've used with this model 69. So it might just be the gun too, just saying.