Home Forums Reloading Shotshells Does anyone load 12 ga. steel BBs for geese????? or Bismuth????

I would like to discuss loading questions just to make sure I do it right.

THANKS IN ADVANCE
ABLE

Be patient. Some one will be along.

Loaded TONS of 10 Ga steel and some 12, what is your question?

I loaded a lot of steel back in the 1990s but stopped once factory loads of 1 1/4 oz in the 1450 fps range became available. I could buy steel on sale after the season closed for about what I could load them and buying was much quicker and easier as steel required me to weigh each powder and shot drop. It also freed up time to load target loads as I was going through 15,000 a year back then.

I load some bismuth, though not much as the shot is expensive and not often found locally. I haven't found loading it to be much different from loading lead and it is much simpler than loading steel. I use it for BB in my 10 ga the most- I can use the Rem SP10 left from the days of lead for that.

Just seems to be totally different then loading for center fire rifles. I can get bullets to hit the same hole in the bulls eye.

With shotguns I don't have a clue on where to start in selecting the best patterning load for Canada geese. I have a 12ga 870 rem with modified rem choke 28 " barrel 2 3/4" and 3".

I can use up to Steel BB in the Modified choke. Does anyone have a similiar gun with proven experience for geese, that can point a guy in the best directions?????

Sure I could stimulate the economy by spending thousands but I don't want to produce for the retail market just kill some geese.
Thanks in advance
ABLE

Wow your questions cover what take a lifetime to learn. How do you want to hunt geese, how bad do you want to eat goose? If you skybust you want bb and bigger, if you decoy close you can start with 2's and end with bb for the "up yours" shot.

Patterns have to be checked but generally you want the most steel in the air your chambering will allow.

Loading starts with what press you have, if you have none get one that will accommodate steel readily. Steel is troublesome but shot gun loading is less finicky in general than rifle, but still will not suffer foolish shortcuts being taken.

You need a good book, like "status of steel" from Ballistic Products. and a mentor would really help on that wild adventure we call goose hunting.

IIamalover2, Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I realize my questions are rather broad. Having loaded rifle and pistol for over 30 years I seem to know more about those loads. I started out with a mentor but that individual knew nothing about either buckshot loads nor heavy waterfowl and goose loads. Hence the need to ask broad questions.

There are several questions you need to answer first. Do you have a shotshell reloading manuel? Have you read it and fully understand what you've read? What type of press do you have? Single stage, progressive? Brand?

Being able to identify the type of hulls you many have is critical. Any type of hull can be reloaded but some are better choices than others. Most will require different types of components according to internal shape.

Personally I've been out of the field for some time but if you give the above information, it will help the guys here to help you along the way.

Good luck. Shot shell reloading can be very rewarding.

I don't think it is cost effective to load steel, the cost of components is much like that of 12 ga target loads using 1 1/8 oz of shot- not much different than buying factory. Starting off loading steel is also more of an advanced practice which is not necessarily the best to begin with. It is the shotshell equivalent to competitive benchrest rifle shooting and, like swimming, one should start with wading rather than swimming the English Channel.

As I mentioned earlier, I used to reload steel but stopped when the factories began to produce loads like mine. I have no problem killing big Canada geese with a 12 ga , 3" 1 1/4 oz load of BB or BBB at 1400 fps (+/- 50 fps) out to about 60 yards. I rarely shoot that far out but one occasionally needs to do so to put down a cripple. It took a lot of shooting at extended ranges to become capable of such feats but I was able to do so with some instruction and plenty of FITASC sporting clays competition as well as practice with a personal clay thrower.

My favorite factory load was the Winchester Supreme in this configuration but I have had decent success with the standard loads such as Winchester DryLock, Remington Nitro Steel, and whatever Federal is calling their blue box shells this week.A good "sleeper" shell is Kent Fasteel which is pretty good and inexpensive. I don't get into the fancy named shells as the less expensive shells can do anything I need them to do. For the much greater cost I don't see any benefit to them.

As I mentioned, I do load some bismuth but not much. It is ungodly expensive as it is not found locally to me. Shipping adds even more to the cost which makes it cost prohibitive to me. What little I do load is for smaller gauges as steel is more than adequate in the 12 ga and larger. I have a couple of 16 and 20 ga guns from between the world wars which are not rated for steel shot for which I load bismuth if I decide to use them on some public lands. The small amount of ammo I use is not too overly hard on the pocket book.

Have you thought about loading TSS, instead of Steel BBs or Bismuth? You can use a smaller shot size, and put more pellets on target, with much better energy. You can shoot geese with #6s or #7s, simply because TSS, is ~62% more dense than lead. Because of its density, it holds downrange energy and velocity much better and allows you to use a smaller more dense pellet. It will penetrate better than larger less dense pellets, because each smaller pellet has less frontal area, which creates less drag and allowing for more efficient penetration.

Hello 308 cal,
I have read quite a bit about HW11 and HW13 for 12 ga. They recommend #2 shot for geese. I know it is expensive but so is coming home with nothing but regrets. Perhaps you can share your suggestions.
ABLE

If you are going to reload and you are serious about hunting and bagging geese I suggest that you do several things...first, forget steel and get heavy shot in your mind. It works and it works good. You are reloading so you are saving on some cost, do you want to seriously hunt or count pennies??? There is no such thing as good effective steel shot, period end of story. Steel shot is some communist democrats dream of getting over on the normal people in this country and it has been working for too many years. Second, get yourself a Wad Wizard choke. Go to their website and read about how it works.They are expensive as chokes go, but it is unbelievable how much of a difference it makes. Google "BPI" and "Reloading Specialties" and check out what they have. Third, get good camo and flock your decoys!!!!! Best of luck and good shooting!!! Now, when you are really, really serious about goose hunting start thinking about a 10 gauge.

Edit: Forget bismuth...it is only marginally better than steel as it doesn't weigh much more. Bismuth is so you can use an older shotgun with full chokes and not hurt the barrels.

If you are interested in tss I am able to help you out. Pm me

ABLE,

Sorry for the delayed response, I had to round up all my data, to show you what you would be dealing with using TSS. I also will 100% disagree with msinc, there is no need for the Big 10 gauge these days, you could infact hunt big geese with a 20 and be extremely effective.

So as I said before TSS is approximately 60% heavier than lead shot, and it is approximately 125% heavier than steel shot. This will allow you to use a smaller size shot with much more effectiveness, by increasing you pellet count, and increasing your pattern density.

As for what is needed to consistently kill turkeys, waterfowl, and coyotes, the rule of thumb is you need 1.25" of ballistics gelatin penetration at your max distance to consistently kill a turkey, 1.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration for large ducks, 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration for geese, and 3.7" of ballistics gelatin penetration to consistently anchor a coyote.


That said we are discussing geese here, so the below figures are based on 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration, and at the max yardage you can achieve that amount of penetration at various velocities and shot materials.


Steel BB (72 pellets/oz) @ 1400 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 35 yds

Steel BBB (62 pellets/oz) @ 1400 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 41 yds

Lead BB (50 pellets/oz) @ 1300 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 83 yds

HW13 BB (47 pellets/oz) @ 1300 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 121 yds

TSS 2 (54 pellets/oz) @1300 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 163 yds

TSS 6 (139 pellets/oz) @ 1300 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 83 yds

TSS 7.5 (219 pellets/oz) @ 1300 fps = 2.5" of ballistics gelatin penetration at 57 yds

So looking at the numbers that most closely match as far as range, both Lead BB, and TSS #6s at 1300 fps will give 2.5" of gel penetration at 83 yds. However, in order to match the pattern density of a 1 oz load of #6 TSS, with Lead BBs, you would need a 2.75 oz payload at 1300 fps, and that won't happen with a 12 ga or even the big 10.

All these numbers were derived from the KPY ballistics program, and are quite accurate. I put Lead BB in the place of HW10 or HW11, because it is the closest thing to it. HW13 in this program is calculated to be 13 g/cc density, which in reality the HW13 shot you get from Bucksrun, is only averaging batch to batch at around 11.8-12 g/cc density.

So...as you can see TSS, is above and beyond, a superior product to Steel, Lead, and any other HTL shot available. Like I said, you can hunt big geese very effectively with a little 20 ga. Oh, and with TSS, you don't need a Wad Wizard choke, or a really expensive tight choke, for that matter. We folks that hunt turkeys with TSS, do it with a more open Full or Extra Full choke. TSS tends to favor the more open chokes, for best performance.

Even though my favorite waterfowl gun is an Ithace Mag-10 I've been using since 1979, I agree there isn't a need for the 10 ga these days. Since the mid-late 1990s when Winchester came out with their Supreme line, steel took a leap forward in effectiveness. I began loading a similar load in the early 90s with good success. I stopped loading my own when similar loads became available.

With them, I could reliably take geese as far out as I could with lead in the "old days". This ranged from snows and Lesser Canada's to the Giant subspecies out to 60 yards as ranged by a laser. I tried the various non-toxics as they came out but found them to kill birds no better than steel though at much greater cost.

Cost may not be a factor to some but I was guiding and going through a few hundred rounds a year added up. I also noticed that those who could shoot well killed birds reliably while those that were not nearly accomplished had many more cripples. And that did not change whether using lead, steel, or anything else.

I also learned that picking the right field, a good decoy set up, and decent calling brought birds in close and it again did not matter what one used. I guess the moral is, shot type becomes less important as one's skill in shooting and decoying improve. The heavier than steel alternatives may be able to give me more range but I find steel plenty adequate for me in my comfort zone. Others see things differently and whatever gives them confidence is what is right for them.

308cal you have a private message
ABLE

ABLE, I responded.