Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Forget Repeal and Replace. Time for National Healthcare

Pat,
Welcome to the liberal utopia we call America. Better be careful you may be labeled a racist for such remarks

Anybody who voted for Trump in the primaries. He said several times that he was for the social mandate.

Welcome? I've been living it all my life.

It hasn't been this bad all your life though.
Oh and judging by your avatar pic retirement has been good for you?

Money has never meant anything to me. I'm just pissed that I don't get a postcard, or something, with the pictures of the several families I'm supporting.

I hate socialism is not a strategy, It's a shared sentiment. It's not a strategy,

Why is it so hard to understand that the choice laid out by Hatari is to lose a battle vs lose the whole war.

Those of us who have delivered healthcare and dealt with the public, govt, VA, IHS, insurance companies etc., etc., etc. can read the tea leaves with regard to what is currently transpiring.

The voters do not get it, but that does not change their positions, which is gimme dat.

So, got strategy?

Strategy?

Come and take it.

[bleep] communism. I don't have to like it.

Yet.

But your working on it.

Pat, that's BRUTAL!

We have a VEBA account, through my wife's job. It's a whole different deal... I'm not sure I fully understand it but basically, we get ~ $200/month put into the account- we pay nothing- and then that money can be used towards virtually anything. Aside from that it's got a high-deductible policy backing it up... the VEBA money can be used for virtually anything- even towards the deductible. So, a little dicey the first year but as the VEBA account builds up, after a year or two it's a pretty good deal, assuming you haven't been needing the VEBA money and could let it build up.

As I say... when we were choosing it from the available choices that her school district offers, it seemed sort of impossible-- we had been paying $$ every month (but not like you are!) for pretty standard insurance, but with the VEBA, they pay us the $200/month! But that's the deal.

I'm sure if I ever truly need it I'll find all the ways they've built into it to [bleep] me.

Sorry, but that has already happened. Keep up.

what troubles me is that it appears that illegal aliens from anywhere in the world are treated like they have Constitutional Rights, right alongside legitimate citizens whose ancestors crossed the T's and dotted the I's.

the issues are seemingly insurmountable, or seems so. perhaps ol Hank is right, there is a risk of Guam tipping over.

Looking at a couple stats...

The per capita cost for health care in the US is right around $10k/yr. Of that, approx 50% is incurred by people over 55, though they are only about 25% of the population.

I will say, in reference to the notion of single-payer, that I don't think a sales tax could cover that... myself, I don't spend a lot of money, maybe $30k/yr between the wife and I... so you'd have to ding us for 66% to cover my theoretical "nut" with a sales tax.

Google tells me Canada is about $4k/yr per capita. That's more doable, I'd think, in terms of a sales tax (or other unavoidable tax).

I suspect that even if the profit seeking entities were removed from our health care equation, and how that could be accomplished as a practical matter (corporations = people after all) is beyond my ken, but if it WAS possible I suspect that our "system" is just plain more expensive than Canada's due to the technological infrastructure, ongoing R&D, and highly trained specialists... .

I think the solution here is to let people 55 and older die in the streets when they can't afford care. Win/win. Kidding.

Ladies and germs, we are in a pickle.

vel, yeah. if'n it weren't for the sick and afflicted who walk amongst us, the insurance suppliers could reduce rates, or at least i hope they could. if they refused to do so, i might choose to buy some shares of stock in their money-making enterprise.

but, reality is always staring us in the face, or so it seems.

natural life-spans are pretty much fixed in clay, more or less.

so, it comes down to how best to deal with end of life scenarios, plus disease, accidents, and other risks to life.

and pain medication. pain medication is an important part of the solution, or should be, right?

it would be good to see some definitive numbers on how the US death rates are lower than countries who have socialized medicine. in other words, what are the numbers that indicate we're on the correct or best path?

and longevity overall, by country? nowadays statistics can share insights into the real world. so, how is Canada, US, Mexico holding up in terms of global longevity of "average" citizens? lot's to talk about as we dance around the rosebush.

Cat got your tongue, butthole? typical every time someone hands your ass back to you. I think you enjoy it...

The system we have now is much worse than actual "socialized medicine".
Sooner rather than later, they need to cut the B.S. and give all citizens medicare then rein in costs ASAP.

If that's directed at me, I don't know WTF you are talking about.. Did you take a mean "shot" at me I missed or something? Gosh golly that'd be some scary stuff.

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Jorge's estrogenic butt-hurt aside, an alternative to Hatari's proposed dual system (where basic stuff is socialized and then there's a true free market for supplemental), might be to slide the medicare line down to 55.... now we've socialized half the costs, and the remaining half is spread across a 75% population demographic that is at least in their prime earning years and able to adjust to the new deal. Go fully free-market with that 75% demographic.

Any dual approach has the flaw that we've currently got going, which is that it gives insurance companies too many ways to take advantage of the complexities of the situation. I have two college degrees and can add 2+2, but DAYUM it gets confusing trying to figure out the latest stuff that the actuarial wizards come up with! My experience has been that there's how a policy appears on the surface, in the summary, then there's all the gotchas they build in if you ever actually need it. I would not oppose efforts to standardize and simplify such policies; in fact it would seem to be a requirement for a good-faith effort at a true free market approach. .

But I come back to real skepticism towards such an approach. I used the word opacity earlier as a description of the industry; but it can be applied to the human body as well. My mechanic can tell me how much to fix my alternator, but how can a doctor tell you how much your vague gut-ache costs? Could be gas, could be cancer, could be ANYTHING. They could certainly be more forthcoming about the costs of certain parts of the process but I just cannot envision the kind of transparency that allows a free market to actually function. Me with a gut ache in a free market calling around to various providers of the service (doctors): my stomach hurts. How much to fix it?" Them: "The office visit is $140 but we can't say much more".... so I choose the cheapest. In I go. Them: we need to run a test. Ok, how much does that cost? Say it's $225. So now I get on the phone and start calling around. I find someone who charges $175 for that test. But do they even agree that this is the proper course of action? Maybe not! So they probably require an office visit! And so it goes.

I contrast that with the simplicity of single-payer and it wins that round hands down. Me: I have a stomach ache. Them: we are going to do a test. Me: ok!

Here's a question.... I think most here oppose socialization and applaud free markets on general principle. I do. With that being said, is there a scenario where single-payer becomes acceptable? If it could be shown to be cheaper, would that do it for you? If it could be demonstrated that the current approach is fiscally impossible, would that? Because I have the distinct impression that the Senate is gonna rewrite the AHCA, it's gonna end up damn-near ObamaCare anyway, and THAT puts us in a death spiral, right? Aren't we about to the stage of this where any reasonable alternative deserves a look?

Of course it was directed at you, idiot. You asked some questions, challenged me to post sources and not only myself but others showed you the numbers and the bogus pre-existing bullshit and like you do every time, you choose to ignore.

Ah. Nope, that's fake news, y'old gasbag. YOU were shown numbers that YOU are choosing to ignore.

But that's kinda beside the point anyway. The point is, the system is failing, the AHCA obviously ain't gonna fix [bleep], so now what?

Typical sackoshit liar. Shall we take a trip through your pathological liar malady (with links) or is that a pre-existing condition:

Wasn't many T's and I's to cross back then for our ancestors...

Phil