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#12030238 05/13/17
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Has anyone ever owned/used/seen one of these? For putting a grouse or rabbit into the pot relatively silently it looks interesting at the cost of only 15 ounces.

https://www.packrifle.com


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Cool idea, not sure I'd buy one though. I suppose I'd probably just get a 10/22 takedown and live with the extra weight.

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Way to gimmicky for me. Give me a Chiappa Badger and i will save the remaining $225 for ammo and a gill net.


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There is nothing "gimicky" about the weight savings. It looks like a well made and well thought out product for its intended use.

People who actually backpack long distances in the high country need to save every ounce and
only an idiot would carry 2-3 pounds more of rifle weight if they did not have to.

That weight is better used carrying water,food and ammo:)


Last edited by jk16; 05/13/17.
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Kinda reminds me of the FI Broncos that Garcia imported back in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Not something that I'd buy, but my mountaineering days are limited to riding the up the mountain on a chairlift or gondola and riding down on a mountain bike.

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I've always thought it would be interesting if NAA would work up a pack rifle like that but using their five shot revolver action.
A sliding wire stock would be nice but a separate stock would be OK too.
It would weigh a little more, but still...

A WMR cylinder would be really nice.too


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Originally Posted by jk16
There is nothing "gimicky" about the weight savings. It looks like a well made and well thought out product for its intended use.

People who actually backpack long distances in the high country need to save every ounce and
only an idiot would carry 2-3 pounds more of rifle weight if they did not have to.

That weight is better used carrying water,food and ammo:)



Of course absolutely no gimmicks there especially when only a fuggin idiot would turn his rifle into a fishing pole.

Last edited by krupp; 05/14/17.

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To Krupp -

Someone posts on a community forum about an unusual product to see if anyone has heard of it. Which is exactly the kind of thing the forum is for.
You immediatly mock the post, then double down by passive/aggressively calling him an idiot.
You should stand tall and apologize. Lets see if you do.


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It's not my cup of tea, but... I could see a rolling block like the cheap early Stevens boys rifles. No forearm, wire stock, a bicycle rifle of old. Velo-dog ala modern rimfire.

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My pack rifle is a Rossi 59 carbine.

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I agree, turning your rifle into a fishing pole isn't beyond stupid.

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Obviously, some folks don't know how to shoot fish. smile
Why someone would backpack a 22 rifle is beyond me anyway.

Now a fishing pole, that's something I would backpack ...

Regardless, somebody put a lot of work into this and I hope it pays off for them.


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Well, one of the old tenents of saving weight is to try to make gear do double duty.

Like making your trekking poles also as a rifle mono pod or cross sticks and as shelter poles and vice versa. Or making your poncho do double duty as a shelter tarp.
Yeah ,I do all those things.:)

The fishing rod conversion looked a little wonky to me because it only saves the weight of the handle/reel seat of the rod.

As to packing a 22 rifle into the high country , in a group camp scenario a 15oz rifle and a box of fifty 22LR cartridges probably is about as weight/permance efficient as reduced smal game loads for a centerfire. Especially if the weight is amortized over a group.

So, I can see the utility in the rifle.

Its also kind of cool in that it sort if looks like the takedown rifle the hitman villan used in the "Day of the Condor"...

But I digress..

Last edited by jk16; 05/14/17.
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Originally Posted by kragman1
To Krupp -

Someone posts on a community forum about an unusual product to see if anyone has heard of it. Which is exactly the kind of thing the forum is for.
You immediatly mock the post, then double down by passive/aggressively calling him an idiot.
You should stand tall and apologize. Lets see if you do.





I apologize if any of you have hurt feelings. I said it was gimmicky nothing more nothing less and offered my choice. Then it goes down the rabbit hole with weight savings and lack of field experience. Plenty of tools in the tool box. Knowledge weighs nothing.


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600 bucks for that, no thanks will keep my Remington Nylon 66


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I'd like to play with one to see how it shot, or rather how well I was able to shoot with it. Unless I could beat my results with a .22 handgun, something like those UL .22/45s would have more utility for me, especially for social occasions that might arise on the trail.

Didn't think about the Day of the Jackal connection, but it's a good one.

Last edited by Pappy348; 05/15/17.

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I'll explain why it caught my eye and I became curious about it.

Every year I bow hunt for moose in my home state of Alaska. I use one of my company's recurve bows. Lots of grizzlies are around so I'm also carrying a very large revolver on the belt of my backpack. Every day I leave camp with a recurve bow in my hand and about 25-30# of gear in my backpack (extra clothing, water, spotting scope & tripod, food, game bags, knives, saws, cameras, trekking poles, light-weight block & tackle, etc). With some regularity I run across either a spruce grouse or occasionally a ruffed grouse. Sometimes a snowshoe hare. It's nice to add one of those to the larder as an alternative to freeze-dried food during a 14-day hunt. In addition to all the other stuff I'm already carrying I own and carry a S&W 317 with Crimson Trace laser grip for potting the occasional grouse. I'm reasonably good with it out to 10-15 yards. What I don't like about it is the fact that it's pretty loud, even with CCI CB ammo. Since we're often in close proximity to a bull it's in my best interest to have a very small/indistinct sound footprint. However, as everyone knows that same load in a longer barrel is much quieter. I'm not hunting out of a car or off of a 4-wheeler. The nearest road is well over 100 miles away. We fly into our hunting location in SuperCubs where weight and bulk are both extremely limited and extremely expensive. I'm already carrying all (and more) than I want to carry each day when I leave camp, so the notion of adding a few more pounds in the form of a "normal" 22LR rifle is completely unappealing. The reason I'm walking through the woods is to hunt moose quietly, not to hunt birds or rabbits with a 22. For that there are plenty of good options.

The intended purpose of this little rifle, if I understand it properly, might fit perfectly in with my potential use - a very light-weight way to pot the occasional grouse or rabbit quietly. No one ever said this little thing was intended to be used as the primary hunting rifle on a 22LR hunting trip. Certainly the website says that's definitely not what it's intended purpose is. Everyone who says they'd rather hunt with their favorite 22LR rifle is missing the point.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting bit of kit and wondered if anyone had any first-hand experience with one.

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To Krupp,

I need to apologize to you also - I think that I took your post the wrong way, and spoke out without cause.
When I read your post, it seemed to me that you were mocking someone simply for posting a question about a product that you found to be pointless, and I decided to say something about it.
But I think that it can be tough to understand what someone really means on a typed forum like this. Text has no "tone" to it.
Going back to look at your posts, I can see that they could just as easily been good natured.

I'm sorry if I called you out wrongly Krupp.

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Originally Posted by bea175
600 bucks for that, no thanks will keep my Remington Nylon 66


B,

You seem to miss the entire point of the rifle. Its not designed as a general purpose gun.

The gun is also not $600 dollars- read the website again.

It weighs about 1/4 of what a nylon 66 weighs and takes down for packing.
As I said before - any intelligent backpacker would likely rather carry 1.5 pounds of rifle AND 50 rounds of 22 ammo rather than carry 4 pounds of just rifle.

FWIW at the price of a mint Nylon 66 -a Ruger 10/22 stainless takedown makes the Nylon 66 look like a bad joke for real backpacking ..

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Originally Posted by kragman1
To Krupp,

I need to apologize to you also - I think that I took your post the wrong way, and spoke out without cause.
When I read your post, it seemed to me that you were mocking someone simply for posting a question about a product that you found to be pointless, and I decided to say something about it.
But I think that it can be tough to understand what someone really means on a typed forum like this. Text has no "tone" to it.
Going back to look at your posts, I can see that they could just as easily been good natured.

I'm sorry if I called you out wrongly Krupp.

Kragman



That's OK I try to force my point to try to sound old and wise and just end up sounding like a wiseass. I just don't want people spending their money on junk. I know it is not my money or my choice and maybe it is a good product but I think it is too fragile and specialized to survive the boonies.


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Originally Posted by kragman1
I've always thought it would be interesting if NAA would work up a pack rifle like that but using their five shot revolver action.
A sliding wire stock would be nice but a separate stock would be OK too.
It would weigh a little more, but still... A WMR cylinder would be really nice.too



You mean like this...

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298979

Jerry


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John Harvard, my initial thought was, "That's kind of a cool idea, but it looks pretty fragile; why not an AR-7 that stows inside its own buttstock?" But then I looked up the specs and saw it weighs 3.5 lbs instead of 1 lb...

After reading your follow-up post on why you were thinking about this rifle and how you hunt, etc. I was thinking about what you said about the S&W 317 and how you're pretty decent with it out to 10-15 yards when it hit me, if you're an archery hunter, don't they make an arrow for small game to do just that? It would only cost you the weight of an additional arrow or two, I'd think. Pardon my ignorance if that wouldn't work, because I'm not into archery.

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Originally Posted by John_Havard
I'll explain why it caught my eye and I became curious about it.

Every year I bow hunt for moose in my home state of Alaska. I use one of my company's recurve bows. Lots of grizzlies are around so I'm also carrying a very large revolver on the belt of my backpack. Every day I leave camp with a recurve bow in my hand and about 25-30# of gear in my backpack (extra clothing, water, spotting scope & tripod, food, game bags, knives, saws, cameras, trekking poles, light-weight block & tackle, etc). With some regularity I run across either a spruce grouse or occasionally a ruffed grouse. Sometimes a snowshoe hare. It's nice to add one of those to the larder as an alternative to freeze-dried food during a 14-day hunt. In addition to all the other stuff I'm already carrying I own and carry a S&W 317 with Crimson Trace laser grip for potting the occasional grouse. I'm reasonably good with it out to 10-15 yards. What I don't like about it is the fact that it's pretty loud, even with CCI CB ammo. Since we're often in close proximity to a bull it's in my best interest to have a very small/indistinct sound footprint. However, as everyone knows that same load in a longer barrel is much quieter. I'm not hunting out of a car or off of a 4-wheeler. The nearest road is well over 100 miles away. We fly into our hunting location in SuperCubs where weight and bulk are both extremely limited and extremely expensive. I'm already carrying all (and more) than I want to carry each day when I leave camp, so the notion of adding a few more pounds in the form of a "normal" 22LR rifle is completely unappealing. The reason I'm walking through the woods is to hunt moose quietly, not to hunt birds or rabbits with a 22. For that there are plenty of good options.

The intended purpose of this little rifle, if I understand it properly, might fit perfectly in with my potential use - a very light-weight way to pot the occasional grouse or rabbit quietly. No one ever said this little thing was intended to be used as the primary hunting rifle on a 22LR hunting trip. Certainly the website says that's definitely not what it's intended purpose is. Everyone who says they'd rather hunt with their favorite 22LR rifle is missing the point.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting bit of kit and wondered if anyone had any first-hand experience with one.



I often in similar situations but I have a supressed 22/45 that i lite, compact and does the trick.

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bhemry, up until a couple of years ago we always used an arrow with a small-game head. It's not as efficient as an accurate 22 but can get the job done. If the grouse is up on a limb taking a shot at one with an arrow puts a $30+ arrow at risk of being lost. I already own a Henry AR-7 Survival rifle and liked the idea enough to buy it. But as you said, at 3+ pounds it's not ideal. Plus, to make it quiet I have to shoot low-velocity/quiet ammo like the CCI CB. That won't cycle the AR-7 action so it becomes a 3+ pound single shot.

AKPENDUDE, if I could own a suppressed 22 pistol I would, but living now in California I can't. However, to cycle the action on a 22 semi-auto I assume I'd have to use higher-velocity 22LR ammo. At supersonic speeds, even suppressed, I'm not sure that setup would be any more quiet/less noisy than my little revolver with CCI CB Longs and CB Shorts. A suppressed 22 semi-auto would weigh more than 13 ounces too (the weight of my 317).

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Quote
If the grouse is up on a limb taking a shot at one with an arrow puts a $30+ arrow at risk of being lost.


Wow! Enough said! Now I remember why I chose not to get into archery years ago, I still had guns to buy and couldn't afford to do both.

Another thought I had was, and I'm sure you already thought of this, is if you're using a revolver as your bear protection is to use a low-powered SWC or full wadcutter, but then again, you still have the noise factor of a short-barreled gun even at low power.

Don't know what your bear gun is, but maybe if you saved enough weight by going to the Scandium 329, you could offset the weight of a lightweight .22?

Actually you have got my curiosity up about this gun, so I sort of hope you do buy it and write up a review of it here. Selfish, I know. wink

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For bears I carry a customized 480 Ruger revolver, so it can't be used to take a grouse or rabbit for a variety of reasons. The little 317 is light weight, carries 8 rounds, fully loaded with a CT grip weighs 13 ounces, and is accurate enough if I do my part. The only problem is the noise. Not terrible mind you with CB ammo, but it's definitely louder than I want. Maybe there is no better option? That's why this little rifle was so intriguing when I saw a writeup about it. The report/noise from a rifle barrel firing CB ammo is less (I think) than the best suppressed semi-auto 22LR pistol firing high-velocity ammo. A single shot is all I need for my intended purpose. Just looking at it online and having never held one, the durability of the pack rifle is my biggest concern. That's why I was hoping to find someone who owns one to comment.

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As to durability-the materials the Packrifle is made from are machined alumium and carbon fiber tubing. Those are basically the same materials used in trekking poles that last thousands of miles being pushed against the ground with ones full body weight or twisted between rocks ,logs whatever .. The Pack rifle's slso probably much stromger than the structural poles used in modern high end ultralight tents that can hold up to gale force winds.

As to noise- some of the report of a revolver comes from the cylinder gap..So even if you had a custom barreled 22 revolver with
the same length barrel as a fixed breech rifle- the revolver would still be louder.

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Originally Posted by John_Havard
Has anyone ever owned/used/seen one of these? For putting a grouse or rabbit into the pot relatively silently it looks interesting at the cost of only 15 ounces.

https://www.packrifle.com



Not I. When looking at the same thing but wanting a .22 Mag/.22WRF capability I found these. http://www.rutalocura.com/products.html

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DB, I had also found the Ruta Locura site but wasn't sure if they were still in business. Do you have one, and if so, how do you like it?

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John,

Here's an old (2009) review on the rifle You are asking about.

https://backpackinglight.com/pak_rifle_review/


Keystone arms Crickett Rifle & Pistol:
These are some kits from Ruta Locura (?) to convert Your Cricket 22 Rifle/Pistol to a lightweight platform and a review by a blogger that goes by 'WoodTrekker'. I would have liked to have picked up one of the barrels but they were not available back when I had the Cricketts... the stock sucks IMO (based on pictures only as I never had one of the kits).

http://www.rutalocura.com/22magPRK.html

http://www.rutalocura.com/PPK.html

http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/06/ultralight-backpacking-rifle-ruta.html

I'll add a link of a guy who built his own backpacking stock for the Crickett:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869105


Savage Rascal:
I used to have a couple of Cricketts (for the Kid's) and never really cared for them. When Savage came out with the 'Rascal' I picked one up and like it a lot (so did the Kids). Unlike the Crickett; rounds can be dropped in the breech and chambered by working the bolt, it has a Real safety, it cocks by working the bolt, the sights are much more robust and if You so desire ...it is drilled and tapped for Weaver scope bases (a scope on such a tiny rifle is too much IMO). They are quite accurate... I can hit a 3 inch swinger at 50 yards 3 or 4 times out of 5 shots offhand. BUT it is probably too heavy for what You are looking for, as the bare rifle weighs 2 pounds - 11 ounces. Here is a blog again by woodtrekker of a Rascal that He modified... He fails to drop much weight though;

http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2014/06/ultralight-backpacking-rifle-savage.html


My experience:
Like You I had a S&W 317. it was a delight to carry but I was not Grouse accurate with it so I tripped it (unfortunately I might add). Now I've got a S&W 63 w/ a 4 inch barrel, it weighs 27 ounces but I am much more accurate with it than the 317. I also have a Ruger Mark III 22/45 lite, weighs 22.7 ounces (w/an empty mag.) and a Ruger Mark III 22/45 with an 8.5 inch Tactical Solutions barrel which weighs 25.5 ounces (w/an empty mag). I can shoot the 22/45's better than the S&W 63 particularly the one with the 8.5 inch barrel and the Savage Rascal even better than the pistols... the trade off being ease of carrying.

If You can locate some, try CCI's 'Target Shorts', they are much more accurate than CB caps or standard shorts and a Lot quieter than any other shorts I have tried (out of a rifle) and I have tried Remington, Winchester, CCI HiVel., Aguila Shorts & Aguila Target Shorts. I've got a bunch of CCI 'Quiet' ammo, but have not compared the sound signature or accuracy between the two.

Were I to pursue an even lighter set up I would either a.) see if the Ruta Locura rifle barrel would fit the Savage Rascal or b.) Buy a Keystone Crickett Pistol and install a Ruta Locura Pistol barrel on it.

Enjoy Your Journey,

Jerry

Last edited by jerrywoodswalker; 05/16/17. Reason: add some nonsense

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No, I don't. I got a .22 WMR SS Cricket and an extra stock. I am guessing I will get one of the stock kits at the very least.

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If I got one of the PackRifles I'd want to McGuiver some sort of case to carry it in. My pack gets pretty beat up every day while hunting - used as a seat or a back rest or just bumping into rocks. I'd never feel comfortable carrying the PR broken down strapped to the outside of my pack. I can envision getting everything inside of a fairly small diameter tube except the grip. Maybe cut a slot in the tube for that? I'd have to get that figured out before I'd want to carry it.

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