Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7x57 Woodleighs/A Frames/etc?

Does the 7x57 in a 22" barrel have the oomph to push the 160-175 Woodleigh's/ Swift A Frames/ comparable bullets fast enough to open them up, say, on Mule Deer and elk? If I try the Hawks, say a round nose in 160-175, which jacket thickness is better? ( I'm assuming it would be the .030 jacket instead of the .035, but don't know) Also, would the Nosler 168 ABLR be a good 'all around" bullet to use on deer and elk? Thanks for any opinions guys...

Yes

I don't have personal experience with Woodleighs and A-Frames in the 7x57, but have shot a bunch of 156-160-grain bullets into various big game animals with the 7x57, including the Barnes TSX, North Fork, Norma Oryx, Nosler Partition and North Fork. They all opened up at ranges out to 250 yards, though the TSX opened the least. If I decided to use a TSX again in the 7x57 it would be a Tipped TSX, and they're all lighter than 160 grains--which in my experience is a good thing, since lighter and faster works better with monolithics.

My favorite in that weight-range is the 156 Norma Oryx, because they open up easily and widely at moderate velocities. My experience in other cartridges with the Woodleighs and A-Frames is they open up easily and widely even at moderate velocities.

The Nosler ABLR's also open easily at moderate velocities, and I suspect the 168 7mm would work well in the 7x57. I'm in the process of trying some new bullets in the 160-grain range in my 7x57, including the 162 Hornady ELD-X and 168 ABLR, and will know more in a few months.

You bet, and these fine premium bullets will be even more so at these mild velocities, that said, I've only fired 175 gr Partitions and old style Grand Slams in my 7X57, at 2700 fps, they are extremely fine killers.

I shot a lot of 160 partitions in mine, but lately settled on the tipped TSX 140s at 2900 or so. I don't know how many head I've killed with the 140 TSX and TTSX, but quite a few, and a total of one got shot twice.

I use 140 partitions in my 7mm's. They do not fail.

I just bought a small boatload (dingy-load?) of pulled 160-gr. Partitions without a pull mark on them. I'm going to load them to a modest velocity, somewhere around 2500 or 2600 fps, and try them on a few pigs. I know they'll work; I just wonder if there'll be an appreciable difference between them and 140-gr. Interlocks inside of 150 yards. I know a pig isn't a mule deer or elk, but some of them can get pretty big and pretty tough.

My observation is if a bullet will shoot through a big hog from any angle it will handle elk just fine!

I doubt you'll see much difference. I've killed several truck loads of hogs with 139 Interlocks from 7-08's. A critter would have to be quite a bit bigger than an elk or big hog before I'd be apprehensive about shooting it with an 139 Interlock.

7x57 and lead cores? What Jorge said.

RevMike,

I'm not much for policing spelling on the Campfire, partly because I'd never have time for anything else, but you mean a "dinghy." Dingy means "gloomy, dark, dull", or something that dings, like the brains of some people.

I had to go back and see what I wrote. You're right! How embarrassing coming from someone who has spent almost his entire life within spittin' distance of the Atlantic Ocean!

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Most of my shots are head or neck shots and I haven't recovered a single Interlock yet. Even on very big pigs I get a complete pass-through with a neck shot, whether I directly hit the spine or not. I can't imagine a Partition not doing the same. About the only difference I can imagine would be with a shoulder shot on a big boar. I might be able to recover an Interlock, but probably not a Partition.

I once had to put down a large domestic cow. I had both 140gn and 175gn Woodleigh's loaded up for my .275 Rigby but because of the size of the beast, chose the 175 grainer.

All Woodleigh bullets are tested on game before being released to the market. There will be no concern whatsoever.
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Wouldn't think twice about using it on elk or anything else I'd hunt using the 7x57.
John

Interesting about the lack of heavy bullets used on game.

The bullet on the right is a 160 A-frame recovered from a nilgai cow. It was fired from a Brno ZKK 7x57. I shot her in the brisket at a distance of about 100 yards. Bullet was recovered in the stomach contents. Bullet on the left is a 140 Trophy Bonded recovered from a nilgai bull, but fired from a 280 Rem. I would not hesitate to take an elk using a 140 A-frame or a 140 Partition for that matter using a 7x57!

What impact velocity is required for a Woodleigh or A-Frame to reliably expand? I believe Nosler says that a Partition will expand down to 1800 fps.

Rev,at the ranges you shot at,would not worry about impact velocity for the bullet to expand.

Oh heavens no, not for me. I thought maybe it would help shed light on the OP's question. About the only thing that won't open a my ranges are solids.

Gotcha.

Wouldn't that be spelled "Ding-a-ling"?

Thanks guys...I've always liked how both the Swifts and Woodleighs shot, just never killed anything with Aframes or 7mm Woodleighs. I still have a partial box of Hornady 175RN to play with. I've never killed an elk further than 250yds away. I usually average around 200yds on them. My average range on muleys is about 90yds! Didn't matter whether I was carrying a big magnum or a popgun, ha. For me, I want at least "some" mushrooming and a "lot" of penetration, I've just always liked holes that go all the way through. I grew up in the thickets of East Texas, small deer but big hogs and bloodtrails helped "if" they ever ran (I only shot one hog that ran , hit too far back and I got reamed by my dad for ruining "too da--ed much meat"!) Head/neck shots were used on hogs, deer usually behind the shoulder. Its almost impossible to "not" get two holes on those small deer, ha.

Jim,
For the ranges you state, it would be hard to find a 7mm bullet that wouldn't work.
John

One of the PHs I hunted with in Africa uses the A-Frames ( I want to say 175s) as his go-to in his 7x57.

At 7-08 (essentially 7x57) velocities I have observed no difference in penetration or wound channel between a 139 Interlock and a 140 Partition.

You might see a bit more penetration with, say, 160 grain Partitions, but the 139 Interlock may expand a better at 7-08 speeds and it will still provide very good penetration.

Most of the hogs I've killed have been close range affairs, from under ten feet to about 80 yards, but a few have been further out. The only 7-08 bullet I've ever caught in a hog was a 139 Interlock. A very large sow took one through the shoulder at 168 yards and she went straight down. I did the gutless method of cleaning her because she was so big. I didn't bother to dig for the bullet because clouds of mosquitoes were attacking me. But that's the only one that's ever been stopped out of many truckloads of hogs.

FWIW, I also shot lengthwise, twice, through a young but heavy forkhorn mule deer at 22 paces using 139 Interlocks. I put the crosshairs low on his chest and pulled the trigger. I probably didn't need to shoot again, but when he didn't fall over immediately, I did so. Both bullets exited the same ham about an inch apart. A bullet that will hold up and penetrate lengthwise through a mule deer buck and works well on big hogs, will also kill elk.

Which brings us back around to the original question. I recently bought 500 pulled 160-grain NTPs simply because I couldn't resist the price: $95 shipped. Even though I really don't need them, I figured that if half of them were usable, at that price I'd be way ahead of the game. So far, after sorting through most of them, I haven't found any with a single pull mark on them. I expect what I'll do is work up a load at about 2600 fps or thereabouts, and use them mostly on porkers, although I might stick one through our little Florida deer to see what they do. But frankly, I'm not really expecting them to perform any better than a 154-gr Interlock at around the same velocity...which performs about the same as the 140-gr factory Hornady loads (.275 Rigby) I'm using at the moment, also at about the same velocity: .284 entry hole, something about the size of a half-dollar coming out, with a nasty wound channel in between. I've never taken a single shot at an elk, but any of the three bullets I've mentioned will certainly send a big pig to the sausage grinder. I can't see the Woodleigh or A-Frame not doing the same.

Well RevMike ( BTW, I'm a Pastor myself! :)) I found some Nosler Blems over on Shooters Pro shop and ordered some 140 Accubonds and 175 Partitions. I have the 168 ABLR to try so passed on the 160 "anything else" right now. I did order a box of Norma 156gr ammo to do a mini break in on my rifle ( a 1981 Mod 700 Classic) and get fired brass to set up my dies, etc. I'll find some Woodleighs later on to try. Thanks all for your replies! Rev Jim Knight

Not a big deer,but this is the exit hole from a 160 gr Sierra GK with a 2710 fps average from a 22" barrel. The shot was around 110 yards.


Winchester M 70 Featherweight 7x57.

Ken:

As a doctor said one day, while he was looking at a nail mark in the bottom of my foot, "O, that's a big hole!"

Hey Rev, that's some pretty pricey break-in ammo!!

Ha! I meant just shoot a few, see if they group well and also check for fouling. I had also ordered 100 Norma Brass ( and 40 RWS) so figured to stay with one maker of brass.

Got the Norma factory load in, as usual, by appearance they make beautiful ammo! anyone ever use their factory ammo on game in the 7x57/the 156 oryx?

Yeah, and it shoots very accurately from my Kilimanajro custom riflel. As I recall, muzzle velocity from the 21" barrel of my custom rifle with a minimum throat is around 2650, and while the Oryx typically opens up pretty widely, it retains around 90% of its weight so penetrates well. I killed a wildebeest bull with a frontal shot with that load in South Africa, and the bullet went through chest cavity and ended up somewhere in the guts. In fact it's probably my favorite all-around bullet in the 7x57, and if I wasn't a handloader I'd be happy to use the Norma factory load for everything.

Thanks MD- Norma has always been great ammo, in my limited experience ( 30-06, 9.3x62) it was always referred to as "hot ammo" back in the 70s by some friends of mine who used it in their 30-06. It absolutely could not, back then, be used in the old Mod 742. It would fire, then the extractor would rip a piece off the rim, but not extract. My friends with old 1917 Enfield's and a guy with a Mod 50 JC Higgins bolt gun loved it, ha. Admittedly, it was "rough" on those East Texas deer and hogs! lol

John, I'm interested in the Oryx for a 7x57 Improved. What powders do you like? QL seems to be suggesting something like a Re-19, maybe Re-22.

I spoke at length to a man from Germany some years ago. He was an engineer working on a project at the Lorain Ohio Ford plant.

He said in Europe you are expected to know your issues, ammo, firearms and what their limits are. For example, if you plug a Norma 7x57 into a Mauser 93 and it blows that's your fault. They publish the pressures, you are expected to read and understand them and know the limits of your firearm.


Not here, here you drop a Ruger #1 load into a trapdoor and it's the manufacturers fault. From what he was saying the courts in Germany would laugh at you for being ignorant then maybe fine you for bringing a frivolous law suit.

The cost of being stupid is on the stupid person.

Yeah, I have a friend who owns an ice-auger factory. They get their blades from a company in Sweden, and they are SHARP. Whenever some American ice-fisherman cuts himself on one they sue the American company, despite numerous warnings in the instructions and all over the machines about being careful, and also providing VERY stout guards for the blades.

He was telling the Swedes about the lawsuits one day, and they couldn't believe it. Same deal there: If some Swedish ice-fisherman is dumb enough to, say, put an auger on an ATV, then lean over the uncovered blades to tie it down and cit himself, that's his problem, not the manufacturer's.

As it should be!

I bought some 160 Accubonds to try in the Ruger 7x57, which has a 10" twist. I suspect it's about the longest bullet that will stabilize in it.