Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles .223AI - Best Varmint Cartridge of all time!

Won't ever go back to the vanilla .223.

22-250 recoils too much.

20 Vartarg might be cool, but brass is spendy and my big hands have a hard enough time with 40 gr Vmax in .22 cal

20 Tactical? Nah.

20 Practical? Maybe with the cheap brass.

Thinking they are all VERY similar and it comes down to nit picking. Love the .223AI and it's at the top for me.

What's yours?






This place is as dead as the classifieds....

My varmint targets are p/dogs..............this year's pups are up & running........

will start shootin' in a week or so.........my hardware............

17 M2.......20 Vartarg......20-222.......20 Practical.........223AI........6BR.........

can't say that I have a fav........but this is my 2nd 223AI barrel............

How many rounds you get out of it?

Load?

If I recall...........approx 9500 rds..........

load was 27.5/Benchmark.......55 Nozler & 53 V max............12 twist Pac Nor......

replacement is 9 twist Pac Nor.........28" long no taper full cylinder......

Savage Target action..........17 # w/glass..........

the 223AI is awesome on p/dogs.......

the 17 M2 is soooooo amazing inside of 150 yds..........

Can't comment on the Ai'ed 223, as I have never used one...

Guess the 223 itself is versatile enough...

but I do have 22.250s and a 20 Practical that do see action....

a 17 Rem and 17 Fireball are in my future... need to order the barrels... they'll be going on Ruger actions.

I do use the 17 HMR for Sage rats also, but not as much as many other people do..

My only excuse is the addiction to RED Mist...

My favorite: .22 Maximum Lovell.

Over the decades I've used the following rounds to shoot ground squirrels and prairie dogs: .17 Mach 2, .17 HMR, .17 Hornet, .17 Fireball, .17 Remington, .20 VarTarg, .20/.222, .204 Ruger, .22 Long Rifle, .22 Magnum, .22 Hornet, .22 K-Hornet, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .223 AI, .22-250, .220 Swift, 6mm PPC, 6XC, .243 Winchester, .25-20 WCF, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts and 6.5-06. (There were probably some others, but those are what I remember offhand.) Oh, and have done some big-game practice on small rodents with rounds like the .375 H&H and .45-70.

These days I use a .17 HMR for shorter-range shooting. Used to use a .17 Mach 2 but grew weary of the ammo shortage--and then when some appeared, having to pay nearly as much as for .17 HMR.

For general shooting out to 300 yards or so I use a .17 Hornet with 20-grain plastic-tips at around 3650 fps. In the past have used cartridges from the .17 Fireball to .223 AI for the same purpose, but finally realized they weren't required--and also grew weary of trying to buy either .17 or .221 Fireball brass. .17 Hornet brass is easy to find, cheap, and the cartridge does an amazing job with only 12 grains of powder--which keeps the barrel from heating up nearly as much as cartridges using more powder. Plus recoil is so minimal I can easily watch bullet impact at any range, and a bunch of rounds will easily fit in a shirt pocket when I decide to hike around and shoot. (For ground squirrels often use the .22 or K-Hornet instead. They have the same virtue of minimal recoil and compact ammo, but aren't as good as the .17 Hornet beyond 200 yards. For ground squirrels 200 yards is plenty.)

For ranges over 300 have used everything from a fast-twist .223 with heavier bullets on up. Finally decided on a .204 Ruger for 300-500 yard shooting, since with 40-grain plastic-tips wind drift is less than with .224's of the same basic size. For beyond 500 yards I've come to the conclusion that a moderate 6mm (smaller than the .243) is about ideal. Am giving a 13-pound 6XC a trial this year.

The biggest virtues I found with the .223 AI were cheap brass, and no need to trim piles of cases. But the .204 has enough shoulder angle that when neck-sized it doesn't need trimming either. If I hadn't acquired a bunch of .204 brass cheaply during its first few years, would probably be using a .20 Practical instead.

I've shot a few with slugs just to see.

It kills them.

FYI

I think JB hit on it when he mentions different types of varmints. For Ground Squirrels I like the .222, prairie dogs, I like the .204, For fur I like the .222 or a downloaded .223 or 223AI. For coyotes on up to deer sized varmints, I like the .223AI...If I had to pick an all-purpose varmint cartridge it would be the plain vanilla .223...hands down.

I'd probably pick a .223 for one all-around varmint centerfire too--if I had to! Have found the standard .223 will get within 50 fps of the AI if loaded up to the same apparent pressure, where "pressure signs" don't appear. But do like the AI feature of not having to trim brass much, if at all.

For just small-rodent shooting, however, I'd be pretty happy with the .17 Hornet, and ground squirrels and PD's are the only varmints I shoot in most years. Some people do have trouble handling the tiny bullets when handloading, but I only drop a few--and find them again anyway after my periodic sweeping of the loading room. The cases do require trimming after a few firings, even when neck-sized only, but I have a Gracey trimmer than zips through them quickly, trimming and chamfering around 20-25 cases a minute. But who knows? Maybe next year somebody will introduce another small rodent round, and I'll be as fickle as a typical rifle loony.

What defines "best"?

I'm very fond of .17s. If I were being strictly practical, I'd keep my current .17 HMR and own nothing else smaller than a .25-'06. The distances here are generally short and most of the shooting is at rodents slightly smaller than a prairie dog. The number of shots fired at things the .17 HMR won't handle well are few enough that using a .25-'06 for them doesn't create any issues.

At the same time, I really like the .17 FB and .17 Remington, and my current .204 is great. The .204, especially, does do things the HMR won't, but there aren't that many such shots in a day, so much as I like it, it might not be the most practical choice. I'd have to say the same for the CF .22s.

If I lived somewhere else with a different mix of varmint sizes and / or different shooting distances, the answer would surely be different.

I think my next varmint rifle project will being life as a .223 and get rebarreled to .17 Remington.

Tom

Higbean: I have been Hunting all manner of Varmints (and predators) for 60 years now (I am 69 soon to be 70!) and I have used them ALL, in my pursuits.
Including some Ackley Improved versions of factory cartridges along with some "wildcats".
I won't bother to list all the calibers of Varmint guns I have owned and used in the past - just suffice it to say I currently own 92 (ninety two) centerfire caliber Varmint Rifles and 39 (thirty nine) rimfire calibered Varmint Rifles
If I were starting out today and wanted an "all around" Varmint cartridge that will do 99% of all Varmint and predator Hunting and do it VERY WELL I would not hesitate an instant, to declare the 204 Ruger to be that cartridge!
Day time, night time, close range, rather long range, in extreme cold or in extreme heat the AMAZING versatility and wonderful attributes of the 204 Ruger make it my clear choice for "best Varmint cartridge of all time" (all around Varmint cartridge!)!
Just a few of the wonderful attributes of the 204 Rugers for your consideration as best Varmint cartridge of all time:
#1: Amazing accuracy!
#2: Amazing lack of recoil (this helps in all Varminting situations but especially helpful while spotlighting at night).
#3: Slow to heat a barrel.
#4: Ease of reloading (and economical to reload).
#5: Amazingly flat trajectory over distances where 99%+ of all Varmints (and predators) are shot.
#6: Excellent wind bucking ability over distances where 99%= of all Varmints (and predators) are shot.
#7: Excellent selection of 20 caliber high quality (accurate and lethal!) bullets to choose from.
Long live the amazing 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I can't get past a .223 or .223AI due to the simple economy of the brass availability. I had looked at the .22-204 and .204 and while they are appealing, brass is harder to come by in bulk. Just stand around at the range and watch a new AR owner leave brass on the ground.

No tits?







222RM, 204R, 22-250







I only opened this thread for the tits.

A good, sensible answer. The primary consideration is what you are using it for. That changes with the region.

I bought a 223, but don't use it. I have two 222s, and they do everything for this area. Coyotes, groundhogs (the tubby marmots - up to 6 lb.) and foxes. I've tried all kinds of bullets, but settled on 40 gr. Sierra BKs. Load 'em. Shoot 'em. This bullet works for everything. I have never had a 300 yd shot where I'm living now, and this bullet with H4198 is a 250 yd everything gun. Like you said, Tom, it does everything for where I live. And that's the key.

There was a time when I tried other cartridges, but got rid of them all. My 222 Rem load develops 48k pressure, according to my computer, which is supported by the fact that case stretching is a non-issue. 3/4"@100. It's golden. But may not suit the requirements of others.

Edited to add: around here, 223 brass was made to be rechambered to 6x45mm. It seems better suited for the purpose.

.223

I've been using the 222 Magnum. Parent case for the 204, the 223AI before the 223 existed and the benchrest lineage of the std. 222.

Its a good step in between the 222 and the relative fuel/steel hogging 22-250, Swift and varmint 6's. With its longish neck and miserly volume, it might wear a barrel throat a trifle better than some of its contemporaries and case stretch isnt even close to the 22-250/Swift either.

I think the military effed up on the cartridge selection; varmint shooters dont have to...

I've settled on the 223 "Practical" for pretty much everything under deer (and even then). It's just too easy.

.223 Practical... I like it.

A whole lot easier than .223 Tactical too.

I have dozens of varmint rifles from 22RF to 338 Lapua AI, I cant say that any of them is the best of all time. But I can say that no matter what I am hunting there is always a 222 in my truck

I love your 223 "Practical", says it all. May I steal it to add to my signature line?

drover

The 22-250 will never be topped for a coyote rifle.................................................

I can dig a 22-250, but a .243 steps it up a notch or two.

17 HMR for ground squirrels

.22/6mm and .243 Win for coyotes

We really like long range prairie dog shooting. First 22-04 was a 12 twist that was loaded with 40 gr plastic tipped bullets. It ran out of gas around 500 yards. Next one in 8 twist, 75 gr Amax bullet at 3140 really shined in the 6 -900 yd range. This winter I set it back and ran the 222 reamer in to take 204 length brass with the 222 neck. Time will tell if the long neck is worth it or not. The 22-04 with many rounds showed no alligatoring or burning in the throat. That said an Ackley 223 would be a lot simpler but who likes easy. An eight twist 22 BR is almost not fair for long range PDing. Dale

What bullet and how fast in the 8 twist 22 BR Dale?

Mistake on the 22-04 that is at 3040 fps not 3140. Three of us shoot 22 BRs with 8 twist barrels, they all shoot 75 gr Amax at 3250 fps. Two are on 700 actions and one is on a Bat SV. We have a gong in camp at 1180 yards . Actual come up from a 300 yard zero is 27 minutes. Dale

I can push 75's out of my .223AI's at 3,150 fps.

It's impressive stuff.

Highbean,
Pushed the 22-04 faster too but the 3040 node is accurate and has not loosened primer pockets in dozens of firings. The new chamber in 222 1/2 makes basically the same speed so pressure has to be higher. Using Norma 204 brass which has very tight primer pockets. Dale

Right on man.

I think I have 10 or 11 on my Rem brass in the .223AI that I shoot the most. Pockets are about toast, but honestly, I can't see that being a bad deal. I certainly put them to good use.

Wore the throat out of a 223 ai....I set the barrel bak and chambered to 222which has become my favorite...but the 20 tax is a close second....depends on the day I wouldn't want to be without either...both sako 461s......also never leave without a standard 223..for me the gain just wasn't worth the effort..not saying I didn't like it as I did...judo in the field shooting prairie dogs....the standard 223 was just as effective at the same ranges...not on paper but in the field I couldn't tell much diff.

I've tried a few from 17hmr, 17 Ack Hornet thru the .22's up to 22-250. For jump shooting rabbits I enjoy a 17 HMR. For calling coyotes, a Sako .221 Fireball has served for decades. A 22-250 has always been too loud for calling scenarios and too hot for extended shooting, but fun anyway. I'll settle for a little more power than a .221 Fireball and a lot less blast than a 22-250, so I'd be happy with any of the tweeners in the 222/223 range. If I shot like some of you guys do I'd be concerned about case trimming, but I don't so can get away with vanilla factory offerings. I just recently bought a couple .222's, a Remington 660 and an Anschutz 153. They should be about right.

I'm easy to please.

If I was Seafire, I'd own a 22-250 and load it up down and sideways and be happy!

What would Flave do?

Flave would whip out his .17 Rem. and turn gophers to goo and slay coyotes with no pelt damage!

And enjoy viewing the show in real time through the scope.

I like the 223, my sons friend is a firearms instructor, he gave us a 55 gallon barrel of Lake City brass. I size, trim, ream primer crimp a few at a time.

What did Garth Brooks say" I have enough money for my kids, my grandkids and their kids". I have 223 brass for a thousand years.

a 55 gallon drum of 223 LC brass............

money in the bank............

you just never know who may be the next POTUS.............

What??? No one picked the 225Win??? tsk, tsk!

If I had needed a 224 cartridge with more horsepower than my 222s, I would have this. The 225 has nice lines. Might still get one.

But the barrel twist would have to be 1 in 10 or 1 in 12. For the heavier bullets. 60 to 70 gr.

One is none and two is one.

Steve: You are correct. While the 63gr Sierra is the most accurate bullet in my old 225 M70 (14" twist), the 64gr Win PP won't stay on a pie plate.

I like my 204 with 32's...

What is a .223AI?

(Wasn't that a great thread?)

I had a Sako 222 Rem. Mag with a BOFORES bbl. that is still #1 with me.

Personally I use my 20 tac more and more and the 223 ai is going to get chopped as soon as I burn up the ammo...
The 222 rem get more use also....

The 222 Rem has long been my all time favorite but the 223AI is gaining ground quickly.

I shoot 50 grain bullets out of the deuce but have found literally dozens of loads that will shoot under 1/2" @ 100 yards. It has been a wonderful cartridge to shoot and reload. Of all the load work I've done with multiple rifles, I've settled on H335 and a 50 grain TNT.

The 223AI is wicked little bugger. I shot 40 & 50 grain NBT's over H335 in my first one, a 1 in 12" twist. My most recent AI is twisted 1 in 8" and slings 75 ELDs @ 3060 fps with a mild load of Lever. Fun factor is high.

DakotaGun:

Welcome to the Campfire!

Sounds like you're going to fit right in...

cheers and best regards
seafire

Thank you, Seafire. Glad to be part of the group.

I have some experience to offer and more to learn in this outdoor game that is hunting/shooting/rifles/reloading/etc. etc.

This is a nice place to be. Thanks for the welcome!

Welcome Dakotagun. I used to shoot lots of 335 but found a good deal on accurate 2230 . It seems to be cleaner. Less burned powder and less cleaning.

My one 223 has something over 14000 rounds thru it but is ready for a new barrel. A 20 Prac seems about right.

I shot 223 for 40 yrs even used it when doing control work, great cartridge. When the barrel went re-did the rifle in 6x45 even better. My favorites are the 222 Rem and the 22-204. In the 222R 52gr Speer HP's for coyotes and 33gr HP's over 800x for the small stuff. The 22-204 is my pelt hunting rifle 40gr NBT's maxed out, perfect. For off season coyotes or really open country I take the 22-250. I regularly hunt coyotes with 22 Sav HP, 5.6x50R Mag and 6.5x58R in combo guns and the 6mm-204 set up just to run Lead Free's.

Man, I miss the days where we could have dumb threads like this and all get along.

Bump

Long live the .223AI!

long live ANY varmint cartridge....

Erich,
Can you please share a bit of your experience and loads with the 5,6x50R and how does it compare to the 223/223AI ?
Privately if you wish, thank you!
Alvaro

In the 5 years since Higginez started this thread I have used many of the cartridges listed on this thread, I like most of them but always come back to the best, for me it's the triple deuce with 40's Long Live the 222

22-250 AI

I have several of those, if the question was what is the best Rock Chuck-Predator cartridge then I would agree. for prairie dogs you get many more rounds down the tube before cool time with a 222.

223 AI-28g Of 335= 3800 fps on a 26" barrel, shooting bug holes with 50g V max

223 AI-55g what evers, 3650+ amazing accuracy, N135 is 3700 with cci br4 at the Node

H335 and AA2300 just seems to give indefinite barrel life

New special purpose project is a 22/204 on Winchester brass with .020 freebore.

Real world: 55g at 3700 with 29g of XBR 8208, cci br 4 primer, 1/4" groups at 200 yards, coyotes and hogs with 55g Speer Gold dots. 69g Tipped Sierra Mk is 3150 at the accuracy node, 3250 max(CFE)and the 60g TMK is 3350, CFE

The NO Brainer is the 223 AI.

I used to think that till
The 20 cal
Came available the 20 tac replaced all my 223 prairie dog guns my Sako 461 223 alley wasn’t getting any use so I shortened it and chambered it in 222
20vt is a stable
20VT turbo would probbly replace them
All

I missed this earlier but glad I caught it now. I have one 223AI and it is perhaps the most accurate rifle I own. Ive put only about 3K rounds through it, so I dont have to worry about my barrel going south just yet...

It doesnt get used much, the occasional varmint and feral hogs.

.22LR AI

The more I use my 20P the more I love it…. I can’t ever see myself never using a 22-250, but that 20P is pretty hard to beat. Love my 222, 221 and 22 hornets too. Love my 223 and 6AI too…. Hell I love them all!

Ben.

When I go PD shooting later this summer I’ll be taking 17 Hornet, 204, 222, 223, 22-250 & 22-250 AI.

A lot of our shooting starts at 300 yards. Often the 17 & 222 won’t get as much use as the bigger cartridges. Last year I brought these cartridges and the range was most often 400+ yards and it was windy. The 22-250 AI got the most usage.
Three of these have bench rest stocks and the 22-250AI is one of them - very little recoil.
I think the 204 maybe the most practical for PD’s. But I find the bigger cartridges get a lot more use when the range is long and the wind is high.
I have thousands of 223 brass so it gets used a lot. The 223AI would be a welcome cartridge that squeezes in the midst of these, so would the 222 Mag.

Fast twist .223AI is still where it's at for me these days.

40 gr VMax @ 3,800 or so fire forming.

75 ELD's @ 3,090 in formed brass with a great BC and makes pink mist at crazy distances.

Don t miss my 223 ackley one bit. It was wonderful when I used it. But the 20tac has replaced it
There has never been a time I wished it had it back
Still shoot a lot of 223 and 22-250
But 80 percent of prairie dogs get snot wit 222 and 20 tac
Coyotes 223 and 22-250

Since this came out I've built a couple 20P's and am enjoying them.

Do 20 Tacticals feed in AR's OK, or do you have to modify the mags?

But...you can't reload them once they are fire formed.

50g Nosler ballistic tip, 50g sierra, 53g Vmax at 3800 is Real world in the AI, 12TH335, Rem 7 1/2's.

55g ballistic tip, 55g Sierra N135, BR4 at 3700 fps, 26" bbls in 12T.

IMI brass, zero freebore chambers

Wow. That's warm.