Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles WORST modern bolt gun hunting rifles?

jk16 all your points are valid and all worth examination. So lets look and examine theses thing honestly.

Yes mathematically the M700 has been produced in very large numbers since 1961. I agree. But no where near as many as some other rifles because they have been in production for many time longer, like Mausers,Mosins and so on.

So not counting parts destroyed by "buba's" trying to modify parts when they don't know how to do it right, let look at facts.

In 5 decades of gunsmithing I have had to replace BROKEN Mausers extractors exactly................zero times.
Winchester M70s ..................................Zero times.
Pattern 14 and pattern 17 Enfields ......................... Zero times.
Springfield 1903 1903A1 and 1903A3s 1 time
Mosin Nagants I have replaced the extractors on 4 times. (M/Ns are the most manufactured Bold action in all firearms history Remington m700s are about 7% of MN production)
"T" head extractors from Savage, Mossberg and Howa (Weather Vanguard, and S&W marked ones too) 14 times.

Remington M721, m700, m600 and 660s 82 times. And I have not been doing that since 1957. Only since 1968.
My co-worker in Nevada also had a record of his repairs in the Service Station, and he did 54 of them.

Now lets ask how many bolt handles have come off that needed to be replaced on Remingtons. For me that number is 34.
I have seen 4 Tikka where this has happened and it's even worse in that the bolt bodies have broken, not the handle so there is no repairing a Tikka when that happens.

All other center fire rifles combined.......zero times.

"Brownells also sells a hell of a lot of m1911,AR-15 and Ruger 10/22 parts too. Does that mean THOSE designs are inherently flawed as well?"

Nope, but as you said some folks want to replace parts because of their wishes. I have seen my share of broken 1911s, but most have been work out, not broken. I have only seen 2 Ruger 10/22s ever with BROKEN parts, one was a broken trigger pin and one was a broken ejector. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I would guess the 10/22 is getting pretty close to the M700 in overall numbers.

As far as triggers go, you are at least 1/2 right. Many people screw up Remington m700 (and similar Remington triggers) from trying to adjust them and doing it wrong. But no more then try to adjust other makers triggers. But we don't hear near the reports of other makers trigger failing. As I said up above, I am not counting cases of "buba's" working on guns, made by Remington or anyone else. Only those that break or come apart with no incompetency added by anyone since they left the factory.

Go to our records and see how many that comes to from Winchester, Weatherby, Savage, Howa, Browning, Mossbeerg, Marlin, Springfield Armory, Mauser, Dumolin, Rigby, H&H, Purdey, Merkel, Walther, H&K, and Steyr combined, and compare numbers.

You also make an excellent point that your 30+ m700s have done well. I agree. You see this is a comparison. It's in answer to the 1st question asked. It's not really a condemnation. The question was not "who makes a bad gun" but who's gun is the worst one.

Now that means that if you have 20 guns with a 99.999999999% satisfaction rating and one gun with a 99.99% satisfaction rating, the one with the 99.9 is the worst one. Thats a mathematical fact, not an opinion. And it doesn't mean the 1 with the 99.99% is bad.

By far, most M700s made and sold do fine. Remington is in financial trouble over some issues on a very small percentage of their production. But that percentage is larger than everyone else's.

That's the reason for the answer I give.

I am not saying they are bad, but I am saying they are not as good as most others.

I have had a couple 783s and they were very well made and shot very well. I have had a 700 and 4 ruger centerfires I couldn't have hit a basketball with at 100 yards due to them shooting patterns. And those were 500 plus dollar guns not a $299 783 model.

Worst one I have had? Ruger number one. Heartbreaking because I love the look and feel but it was just too inaccurate to keep...1 shot here another 4 inches away, etc.

Worst in general? The raptor based mossberg that would toss the bolt back through your eye socket.

Of the couple of dozen or so 700s I have/had since 1975, I've NEVER had a single issue with ANY of the complaints registered. Also I have adjusted the trigger on EVERY 700 I've had, PLUS many for friends. I know some folks have had problems.

Name me ONE company, gun, auto, tractor, train, plane <whatever> that their products have 100% perfect service w/o any % of failures. NONE.

IMO the no. of failures/breakages is infinitely small compared to the number of 700s produced.

Jerry

I agree on the 710/770 but why ya throwing the 783 in there also?

Interesting. I've had good luck with the Rossi and Taurus rifles and revolvers that I've owned.

Rossi 59 and 62 pump guns and 515, 518, and 720 revolvers.

Rossi 441 revolvers.

Except for the plastic front sight blades, I actually prefer the Rossi 720 to the S&W 696.

To answer my own question is problematic as there are so many rifles I dislike for various reasons. The Remington M710/M770 stand out as I'm more familiar with them than many of the others.

When Remington came out with the M798 I was excited. That excitement lasted until I handled my first one, which felt like it had sand in the action. So did the second and third one I tried.

The "value line" rifles currently available (Savage Axis, Ruger American, etc.) fail to excite me. There are simply way to many good used rifles available at reasonable prices for me to drool over them. Case in point, a Savage FXP3 I bought for $295 out the door at a gun show last year. It was chambered for .243 Win and shoots holes touching at 100 yards. Kind of homely but a solid action that is easily re-barreled, which was my intent until I shot it. Over half my rifles came to me used. I still see many good used rifles at gun shows at prices that would be irresistible if I was in the market for another rifle.

A POS Mossberg shotgun I bought decades ago soured me on anything Mossberg. Mossberg still doesn't have anything in their lineup that interests me. Their tacticool "reinvention" of the lever action .30-30, the 464 SPX, is easily one of the top contenders for ugliest rifle ever built.

I am.... Best marketing hoax perpetrated since global warming...

Generalisimo ? Saw him in person in La Coruna , there was a Naval Review in the Harbor.

yes sir!

Amazing how many idiots that live in the US have no comprehension of what went on in the Civil War and the root cause of that conflict.

Legions of them...

Mossberg MVP, Smith and Wesson I-bolt. 2 of the worst in recent memory!

Hor Hey - How many Rem 700s have you had, PLUS how many have had problems ?

I would bet that YOU have NOT had 6 Rem 700s that had failures.


Including myself, having had many 700s + several friends with them--- NOT ONE of us have had ANY problem.

Jerry

I currently own one. A very accurate, heavy barreled 22-250 we keep in our place in PA for groundhogs. That's all we use it for. Loaded single round and never use the safety. I don't own any Yugos either, but somehow I know they are POS. Does your safety lock the bolt? (rhetorical question). That alone right there, is enough to elevate them to POS status.

RE M700's...

I've had exactly two. One, a beautiful .308 BDL, was arguably the most accurate rifle I've ever owned, putting 6 or 7 of the first 9 shots into a vertical string half a diameter wide and about three diameters high. The remaining shots were almost touching the others. Since these were development loads with 0.5g increments in powder, the vertical stringing was of no concern. That rifle had a problem with head space, however, and was hard on brass. I traded it away to get my first AR.

The second said "Special Purpose Wood" on the box. It had a checkered walnut stock but no end cap. It also had the magazine floorplate. Chambered for .30-06. Price was right ($425 new), so I couldn't pass it up for a work rifle. Not my most accurate rifle but certainly acceptable.

So far no bolt handles have detached and no extractors have broken. But, sample of two and neither much fired.

jorge

my question is "how many 700s have you had problems with? (given you trouble- grammatically correct).

My answer is, out of MANY 700s NONE have given me any trouble.

Jerry

I gave you my answer, including the yugo analogy, i.e. your experiences and mine are not enough of a universe to make a judgment. However, an internet full of documented cases and litigation are...

So, while I'm not certain I'd say the 700 is the worst design, I would say it's often subject to the worst execution of any major mfg. I've seen a batch of 10 brand new M24s, where 4 had to return to Remington for various critical issues, before firing. I've seen the matte finish wipe off with cotton and rust while you watched. I was a Remington fanboy for decades....lost that faith. The raptors were pretty sketchy....had almost forgotten about those things.

Pre-64 Model 70 Winchester.

Did you hear the one about the drunk driver in a Yugo who hit a four year-old on a tricycle?

They're charging the four year-old as an adult, he left the scene of the accident without rendering aid to the Yugo driver.