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Any favorites?

41

Hornady 210XTP over Win 296 for a full power hunting load. I am embarrassed to say I haven't done much plinking with mine so can't speak to a more moderate load. A friend uses Unique.

That 210 XTP is an excellent bullet, fired one with a full power H-110 load into a sandbank @ 15 yards. It held together & looked like a 50 cent piece.

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The Lyman 410459 220 SWC (wheel weights and 2% tin) over 7.5 grains of Unique or 19 grains of 2400 or a 265 grain LBT WLN (50/50 WW/Linotype) over 20 grains of H110.

mart, you sir know your lead.

2 years ago I shot a whitetail buck quartering slightly to me at 42 yards through both shoulders. The bullet stopped just against the far side hide and still weighed 208grs but had expanded nicely. While I prefer 2 holes it is hard to complain about that performance out of a 4 inch barrel.

165 gr cast flat point......5.7 gr Universal at 1.482 " COAL
Berry's 210 gr FP...........12.0 gr sr 4756 at 1.590" COAL
hard cast 250 gr FP.......20.0 gr H110 or Win 296 at 1.698" COAL
210 Hornady XTP...........21.0 gr H110 at 1.590" COAL
165 gr cast FP................5.0 gr Titegroup at 1.415" COAL
210 gr Hornady XTP......12.0 gr Blue Dot at 1.585" COAL

Note that several of these are reduced loads and will not function properly at standard 41 mag COAL.

My fav's are 8 grns unique with a 210-215 SWC, 17.5 grns H110 with the Cast Performance 250 WFNGC, and I just started playing with IMR4227. 18 grns with a 240 grn Rim Rock "Keith" bullet shows great promise.
I also really like the 210 Hornady XTP with 22 grns H110.

Thanks but even after 25 years of casting for revolvers, I still have a lot to learn. I like both the classic Keith SWC bullets as well as the LBT bullets. I think there is room for both in one's arsenal of choices. I wish Lyman would recut their 41 magnum mold, the 220 grain 410459, to more closely match Keith's design with the three equal bands and square lube groove. Mine is the more modern version with front driving band narrower than the two below it and a round lube groove. In all honesty though I cannot fault the bullets that come out of my mold. They seem to shoot very well.

8.0 grains of Unique duplicates the original Remington and Winchester 210 grain LSWC Police load at 950 fps from a 4" barrel...most accurate combination I have found for target work. One can use any 200-230 grain jacketed, plated or lead bullet....8.0 grains of Unique works with all of them...

If you want a real Keith bullet, look at NOE Molds...they have both the original 220 design from the 1960s and the improved 230 grain version that Keith updated with the help of a couple of friends not long before he died...

Bob

RJM,

Thanks. NOEdoes makes a good mold. I have two or three of them. I don't have the 41 mold but will check it out. I might go that way as my Lyman 41 mold is a two cavity and I've about replaced all my favorite two cavity molds with four plus cavity ones to speed up bullet production.

Yep Unique and a lead semi wad-cutter great practice round. H110 or N110 with the 210g XTP for a good hunting load.

I just use one load with the NOE 412459 224gr. and 8 grs. CFE Pistol. Rem.2.5 in Starline cases.

The 230 Keith looks intriguing, but Ive already gotten out of hand with too many moulds!

Id also note its a perfectly good hunting load that shoots exactly the same POI/trajectory as when used as a target load.

Used to run this 250 grain LBT on top of a near maximum charge of Hodgons Lil' Gun & a Remington 2 1/2 cap as my carry load in big black bear country. POW Island to be exact.

Guess the powder has fallen out of favor due to its high working temperature & possible flame cutting. I never shot enough rounds to really heat my 657 up, the emptys would just drop out of the cylinder & primer edges were always rounded.

Good load IMO


41

Lots of good information and links here...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-Magnum-41-Special-Load-Data-Center

Hornady 210g XTP over a book max of AA #9. Clean pass thru breaking both shoulder blades of a medium sized doe at 49 steps (I'm 6'3") so right at 50 yards. DRT.

The trick to hunting with a 41 magnum is simply a good hard cast lead bullet at 1400 fps. Jacketed bullets won't give any advantage past 75 yards.

i still shoot lil gun as my main .41mag powder in .41mag contenders; have 9 and 14" pistol barrels, and a 16.5" carbine.

In revolvers, i have gone back & forth between 2400, H110, and Blue Dot over the years, although i seem to recall Alliant saying to ignore all the previous data posted & stop using blue dot....

for hunting loads, i have used the now-discontinued Rem 210 JSP and the Speer 220's in the carbine barrel, and mostly used the
Hornady 210XTP and the Hornady FTX in the pistol barrels. ...the 9" barrel also likes the sierra 170gr.

i've shot assorted critters with the 210XTp's and had fine results with speeds ranging from 1000fps up to 1750 (.414supermag).....great deer bullet...

Fyre, those Speer 220 grain, they the 1/2 -jacket soft points? Those are getting hard to find, how they work on game?

I have a few boxes of the 200 grain hollow points

i have a limited number of those half jackets loaded up, but kind of hate to fire them, not knowing where i can get replacements.
Not 41 related but 45. I have some empty jackets for .45acp kind of like an extended gas check.
I assume they were used to put a partial jacket on a cast lead bullet.
Got them in an estate sale, and need to fool with them sometime.
it's pretty rare i shoot any jacketed bullet in 41, having moulds from 170 grain up to 250grain, it pretty much covers all the territory.
i finally bought some .41special starline brass last year and discovered what the fuss was about.
I can push one of those heavier bullets at around 1000fps, which to me is just about ideal.

RJM, nice link!

Thanks for the info.

41

mart, I have that exact same Lyman mold a 2 cavity model, probably have 2-300 cast up & ready to go. Mine drop @ about 212 grains. Great looking bullet profile, pushing them with that 2400 loading, you worried about leading as they are a non gas checked bullet? Velocity?


41

Most of my loads have been 20.5 H110 over a 210 RP JSP, XTP, or SWC 215 Hardcast. I also use about 9 grains of Universal Clays for a lighter load.

21.0 of H110 has been fine, but on up to 22 it always seemed to be a bit less pleasant, and a good bit more pressure.

I have been meaning to use IMR4227 as I have heard good things. Lastly, I have more/less substituted W296 with H110.

You can get sweet speeds using hardcast, leading is something to look for, hardness, gas check or not, also a throating/forcing cone can help.

yup, those are the 220gr 1/2 jackets.

i tried them after having some softer hollow-point bullets become too explosive when shooting at really fast speeds...i shoot rifles in .41mag, .414supermag, and .411jdj, and some loads will send 210/220's at about 2000 fps.
the speer 220's still provide plenty of expansion , but penetrated more than most JHP designs....because they have dried up i've tried to save them for hunting use.

i still have a couple of boxes of the speer 200gr 1/2 jacket hollow points, to me they seemed to expand about like the other various 210HP's available.
i have also shot several deer & pigs with the Remington 210 JSP (now also discontinued), and at higher speeds it worked pretty well, but they have mostly dried up as well.

One other custom bullet i use in fast .41loads, and my favorite .414bullet, is the 250gr double cannelure soft point made by a fellow named Joe Cullison (Outlaw bullets), his email was jcunclejoeaol.com ;
he also used to make it in a 240gr JHP.

some info on the 240's...scroll down a bit & you'll see pix of his bullets:

http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/2705/414-supermag-grain-jacketed-input

and, some pix of his 250 gr .41 JSP i recovered from a whitetail buck that was coming straight towards me at about 50 yards:




i havent ordered from him in a couple of years, if he's still making them i have found them to be both accurate & very good performers on game.
in fact, i need to order more of the .250's, going to send him an email...

It never leaded in my previous Blackhawk but it had been fire lapped and I've honestly never checked the velocity. I will have to do that on my next R&R. My current 41 is a 7.5 inch Bisley. I haven't done enough shooting with it yet to know if that load is going to lead or not. I do need to send the cylinder out to be honed as the throats are all .409 and the groove diameter is .410. Not a good combination for the best accuracy with cast bullets. I'll have it opened to .411. Out of a Ransom Rest at 25 yards it's running 2-2.5 inches with the Keith loads. After honing the throats and fire lapping I fully expect the groups to come down to sub one inch. I did run some old, straight linotype 265 grain WLNGC bullets through it and it shot them into just under an inch. The gas checked, heavy LBT bullets seem to be more forgiving of an undersized throat.

a while back i bought one of those 2.75inch ruger redhawks. first time out it was clear sights were set wrong, and i didn't have time to
correct them. But did fire a box of 170cast in 41 special casings.
hopefully this weekend will deal with sights on a couple of rifle and that little gun.
think i am going to take 230 or 250 cast to play with.
that's a little gun for all that led. The 250's are in the 900fps area. Not sure in the short barrel, sooner or later gonna chrony them.

X...those are some nice looking bullets...

Bob

Yes they are, especially with that expansion @ that velocity they must be bonded?

Definitely interested I am.


41

Last Sunday shot these...210 hardcast SWCBB 17.0 grains of 2400 Federal 150 & RP brass.

Never seen so many bullets go through the same hole!

Nice mild 41 magnum load.

41

As I recall 17.0 with a 220 is the load Elmer used in his .41s...has to be magic....Bob

I've been loading for and shooting the .41 Magnum for over 30 years, settled long ago on 17/2400 for 215 gr hard cast bullets, 18/2400 for 210 gr jacketed bullets, standard primers, Remington or Starline brass. Accuracy from my three model 57 (no dash) Smith and Wesson revolvers is outstanding.

This is clearly the thread to hijack just a bit for a question. I am thinking of messing around with heavy bullets. For the .41 I am thinking about 270 grains. I am not interested in terribly high velocity, about 1100 would be fine. The gun in question is a 4-inch S&W M58, no-dash. Would a 270 hard cast lead bullet at 1100 beat this revolver up too much? If so, would you suggest dropping bullet weight, velocity, or both? (For context, I am considering 300/1100 in a .44 Mag. Ruger Bisley. But I am not terribly worried about such a load in that revolver.)

Thanks in advance. If this should be moved to a separate thread, I will be happy to do so.

-Gun Doc

...no not at all... Your problem with the Model 58 is the gun is factory sighted in for 210 grain bullets and can tell you from experience that the 270s will be 8 or so inches high at 25 yards... And the slower the bullet the higher it is going to be.

My favorite loads in the 4" 57/58s are all with 210-230 grain bullets with 8-9-10 grain of Unique.

8.0 will run 930-970 fps depending on the bullet duplicating the original 210 grain Police load.

9.0 runs 1100 fps and is what I use with lead HPs, Speer Gold Dot HPs and Barnes all copper HP for defensive work.

10.0 runs 1180 fps and use with the same JHPs but change the bullet to a solid for penetration or PentaPoint for hunting.


If you have not seen this there is a lot of good information in the links and posts here...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-magnum-special-data-center



Bob

ps... Dick who posts here has shot through and lengthwise all his animals with a 230 Keith at 1100 fps.

If you want to try a bullet heavier than 230 grains I would suggest the Cast Performance, Montana Bullet Works or Leadhead 250 grain LBTs with 8-9 grains of Unique. The bullet has a long shank that takes up a lot of airspace that one doesn't need if not using H110 and just going for a moderate velocity.

RJM,

Thank you for those detailed replies. The revolver in question came to me with a good bit of pitting on the outside and a dinged up front sight. Thankfully, the bore appears good. The backstory is the gun was carried in a shoulder holster by a Coast Guard crewman in Vietnam, thus the ugly outside. It seems tight enough, so it was likely carried a lot and shot a little. I have already bead blasted it in preparation for satin nickle or hard chrome. I was able to locate the front sight pin and get it moving well enough to know I can replace the front sight to any load I settle on.

Having said all that, maybe 270/1100 is a bit too much to ask of a no-dash S&W? Perhaps I should stick to 230 and below. There isn't much I might encounter here in Texas that would require more.

In my hunting rifles, the older I get, the more I gravitate toward heavy for caliber at reasonable velocity. Thus, the concept of heavy bullets in revolvers intrigues me, but perhaps I should scratch that itch with a tough Ruger Bisley?

Will a 58 handle a 270 at 1100 fps...absolutely...but when a 220+- will handle the same game why put up with the extra recoil....

I have several .41 molds in 240, 250, 265 and 300 grain weights. All of them get used in the single action guns usually at max velocity. The DA guns all get 165s to 220s...just easier on me and the guns...

..as to the finish...between the two have Accurate Plating put on their hard chrome... I've been carrying a Colt Commander they did in 2006 daily since 2007 and it still looks like new. It can be had in matte, satin and high polish...

RJM,

Thanks again for the feedback. Google locates more than one Accurate Plating. Could you please provide a link or other contact information?

http://www.apwcogan.com/

These guys do great work as well.

http://mahovskysmetalife.com/

My 5 shot 45 Colt Bisley.

Ed got it....

Bob

Thanks to each of you for your help and comments!

I agree completely with everything that RJM posted.

I've used the 230 gr. Keith bullet for over 45 years, mostly with 17 grs. of 2400. My everyday plinking load is the same bullet with 8 grs. of Unique. Took my last elk with a 250 gr. LBT WFN using 9.2 grs. of Unique running about 1150 fps, broke both front shoulders with an exit at about 74 yds (I think) she never took a single step.Gun was my 5 1/2" Bisley.

Dick

Have some Montana Bullet Works 250 gr. LBT WFNGC arriving today. Working up a bear load for the 657 no dash 3". Going to start with 20.0 gr. of WW 296 in a nickel Starline case & Federal 155 cap. Ought to be quite the recoil/light-show

My son Cameron (26) likes to backpack in Montana's Cabinet mountains, the grizzly is definitely present. These loads will be for him. He hikes with another young man who packs the short 12 gauge loaded with slugs/00 buckshot but I'd still like Cam to have something on his hip.

Also have a Glock 40 MOS in 10mm with the Burris Fastfire ll, the 15 rounds of Sig-Sauer 180 gr. FMJ @ 1250 fps might be an option.

Thoughts?

20 grains of H110/296 with the 250 LBT is max...it sits the base of the bullet right on top of the powder charge. Velocity from a FA 97 4.25" barrel is 1309 fps...it is somewhat "snappy".

Federal uses this same bullet in their CastCore load. It is only going 1080 fps from a 4" S&W 57...it is much more pleasant to shoot and I doubt any less effective.

If you want an effective bear bullet for the 10mm get some of the Montana 200 grain LBTs...they have fed in the 1911s and Glocks I have shot them in.

http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/montana-bullets-works-10mm-200-grain/

A friend of mine went on an elk hunt in Western Montana last fall. He was going to take my 3" 657 but decided to get his own G29 instead. The 40 is way too bulky to be hauling around the mountains...

Bob

I run that exact same bullet in front of 7.5 grains of Unique in my S&W 357PD - it shoots good and is manageable in the PD. Never had to use it for protection but feel pretty comfortable if I had too.

PrnnDog

I went with 19.0 grains of WW 296. Rest of my load data remains the same.

Weighed the bullets right out of the box, they averaged 241 grains.

41

Shooting a maximum load for your gun isn't necessarily the best thing to do for a bear load, shooting a heavy bullet that you shoot well is probably more important. Bears are blink quick & a fast follow up shot might be needed in some cases so be sure you can handle the load you have in your gun. A good 240-250 gr bullet will do very well if placed correctly. Good luck.

Dick

Long running thread for my favorite caliber, my Little Dandy has a rotor that throws 20gr of H10 and with a Nosler 210, accuracy is outstanding and penetration and expansion is perfect

Understood, I'll range test this hot WW-296 WFNGC 240 gr. load & see just how manageble the recoil is in my 3" 657.

I can always punt & work up a lower velocity load using 2400 or Unique using standard primers.


41

I have a 5 ½” Redhawk and a 5” (custom) Model 57. They have very different load preferences.

Out-of-the-book loads, that produce normal pressures in the Redhawk, have to be pounded out of the S&W cylinder. In addition the S&W is very sensitive to the brand of brass used. An often-used load (#410459 – 18gn 2400) that I consider to be maximum in Remington cases must be reduced to 16.2gn in Winchester cases to avoid sticky extraction.

After comparing various primers I use Federal 150s exclusively. Other brands have produced greater velocity variation. Magnum primers, even with slow-burning powders, have produced greater velocity variation but no greater velocity than Federal 150s.

Favorite loads in the S&W (Remington cases only):
170 Sierra –16.0 gn Blue Dot or 12.0 gn SR 4756 (the 4756 load groups with 175 Silvertip factory load)
210 Sierra or Speer Gold Dot – 17.5 gn 2400
#410459 – 9.5 gn CFE Pistol or 18.0 gn 2400
265 True Shot – 14.6 gn #9 (1040fps) or 19.5 gn #11FS (1110fps)

Favorites in the Redhawk (Winchester cases):
All of these loads, though not over published maximums, caused cases to stick in the cylinder of the S&W.
210 Gold Dot – 18.0 gn 2400
#410459 – 19.0 gn 2400 (shares 25 yd groups with 175 Win. Silvertip factory load)
265 True Shot – 8.5 gn CFE Pistol (1040fps) or 15.0 gn 2400 (1150fps)

Experiments are ongoing with Accurate #11FS hoping for a low-flash and clean-burning substitute for 2400. H110/296, in my subjective opinion, gives excessive muzzle blast, flash and recoil.

19.0gr of 296 topped with a 210gr hornady xtp has worked well in my ruger redhawk for over 20years. Bo reason to shake things up now

I'm not sure they have any advantage at any range

You ever shoot that load through a chronograph?
I'm loading up the same but with 21gr of 296, it breathes a little fire with that charge and some recoil.

Started this over on the CastBoolit Forums...lots of posts and links to everything .41...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-Magnum-41-Special-Load-Data-Center

When I posted the above I didn't realize how OLD this thread is...oh well we can just keep this .41 thread moving along... There must be some new .41 owners out there....

Bob

Well My S&W 41 Mag still likes my 2 year old reloads, but I can hear it calling from the safe, wanting to be fed. Any new sensible recipes are always interesting. Especially if they use Keith Type cast bullets.

My S&Ws all get 210-220 gran bullets with 8.0-10.0 grains of Unique...very boring...very very accurate. About the only exception is the 3" 657. I've found shooting lighter weight bullets in that one to be better...

didn't know you ever used 11grains of unique.
the addiction grows, anothe 41 on the way to arizona

Have 3 .41 mags, a M58, M57 6",Blackhawk 6 1/2'. everyday day load is 215 bayou bullet coated hard cast and 8 grs Unique, also have a heavier load using a gas checked 260 hard cast (buddy casts them) over 12 grs blue dot. And the hornady 210gr XTP over 20 grs win296 for deer hunting.

Two years ago I was fortunate to be able to pick up my first .41 Mag for a very reasonable price at a LGS Now, I enjoy Rugers and this certainly isn't my first, but S&W is my first love when it comes to revolvers and a model 57 or 657 had been at the top of my want list for quite a while. .41's NEVER show up for sale privately or in gun shops in our area, so when this 5.5" Redhawk appeared I immediately jumped on it, even if not only to "scratch the .41 itch" until I found a Smith.
My kids bought me a Weigand Weig-A-Tinny rail for (I think) Father's Day, and then a lucky "Buy-It-Now" deal on a Leupold M8 2x scope on eBay as well as a Hogue Lamo Camo grip (also found on eBay) rounded out the package.
Deer season has been pretty slow for us the last couple seasons but this last November I was given a good shot opportunity at this young 9-point. It was a great experience to be able to take him with my own handloaded ammo, a 215gr LSWC (cast and sold by Travis Frick with tbbullets.com, great stuff!) pushed by 19.1gr of H-110. It resulted in very little bruising and meat damage, too.
Next season my goal is to take a deer with my Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt (no scope, of course).

An addendum to my previous post of two years ago:
210 Swift A-Frame - 20.4 grains of #11FS - Remington cases - Federal 150 primers.
1350 fps and outstanding accuracy.
#11FS is very similar in burning rate to 296/H110 and 300 MP but has greatly reduced muzzle flash.
This will be my hiking-in-the-wilderness load hopefully providing expansion and adequate penetration.
A friend of mine shot two 410459s through the lungs of a large and wounded black bear with no apparent effect so I decided get some expansion if I could.

Thanks Ron for the correction....10.0 is the max I have used and it is also book max... I doubt that 11.0 would blow anything up but there are better powders when wanting to push velocities past what 10.0 gets...

...and NICE shooting Jcon...

I didn't realize this is an old thread when I started reading it, but someone mentioned that so I was watching to see if I'd ever posted in this one. If I have, I didn't see it.

I have two loads I like for .41 Mag, shooting the Lyman 410610:
14.0 grains of Blue Dot, and
18.0 grains of 2400

I have had a new RCBS .41-210-SWC mold for three or four years, and it has never even been heated up. I think that will change very soon...in fact tomorrow I'll be casting a few 358156 and 358429 to see which one works best in the single unfamiliar-at-best .357 revolver remaining in my safe. I think I have a bunch of 410610 ready to roll, but I need some of the non-GC for testing another relatively new resident of my safe, a three-screw Blackhawk.

Thank goodness I finally got new eyeglasses---I think I may be able to actually shoot a handgun again after a three year hiatus. Between the eyeglasses and this new forum, my enthusiasm for handguns is rekindled!

Thank you. He was close enough that the scope was overkill, but you never know when one will step out at 80-100 yards.

Love this thread, I've recently become enamored with the 41. I don't live in bear country, the most dangerous thing I'd ever run into around here would be the occasional negro on the way to the feed store. I just recently bought a Ruger BH in 41 and have been playing with a 175 gr cast hollow point from GT bullets and the 170 Sierra JHP. Tomorrow I'm gonna be shooting some 170's I loaded tonight, these are hopefully gonna be my deer load, pushed by 25.0 grains of H110, should be in the 1700 fps range. Today I shot some 175 cast hollow points in front of 7.0 of Titegroup, they shot really well. I will be using them for a everyday load in the farm truck. I love the idea of lighter bullets in the 41 at elevated velocities, deep penetration is not a concern for anything I'd ever shoot around here.

mirage243, running light weight bullets at high speed is fun & can be very accurate with minimal recoil & if the target is just small game or random targets the impact can be very impressive.. But one thing I might mention is the use of light cast HP's at high speed on deer, etc. They could easily fail even on small deer if pushed to high velocity. The only bullet I would use that is light weight is the 170 gr Sierra which is designed for doing just what you mentioned.
Lots of game has been taken with that bullet at high speed with no problems but a light weight cast HP could prove to be a real problem, just my opinion. Either raising the bullet weight a bit or slowing down that 175 HP a bit might serve you best on small white tails.

Dick

I got a new ruger redhawk 4" last year and just starting shooting it a few weeks ago. One thing I noticed is with the loads I'm shooting it isn't very accurate. 21 gr 296 behind a hornady 210 xtp. I tried another load with 20 grains but had the same results.
What do you guys suggest I try? I don't have any other bullets to try or a different pistol powder.

Idaho 1945, thanks for the info. I'm just running the cast bullets about 1200, the Sierra JHP's I'm running about 1700 ish, I put 24.5 grains of H110 behind them, I wouldn't even attempt that with the 175 cast bullets. I loaded the cast with 7.0 of Titegroup. Both of them shot extremely well, the JHP's were 3 inches higher at 50 yards than the cast which was expectable considering the extra 500 fps.

If you cast your own, and have the ability to source two pots, I would highly recommend a heat treated base (WW alloy) with the combination of a pure lead hollow point or plain lead softnose

I made some for a friend in 45 Super (rifle) and he proceeded to shoot three deer that I gutted and butchered without a single bullet recovered. Wound diameter resembled 50 cent pieces.
They were 238 gr. hollow points driven at 1,800 fps, Lyman 452423 type.

I would wager a soft nosed, heat treated cast bullet would easily outperform the Sierra, provided the slug fits.

I'd suggest shooting it more and getting acclimated to it with a powder that isnt so noxious.

Bullets for 41s often all shoot well, because there's little variance between common bullets and the throat/barrel diameters.

If you've shot very few magnum handgun rounds, or shoot one every so often, it's pretty hard to get good with one or develop bad habits when you do shoot it.

Why would you say W296 is so noxious? Since he's hunting outdoors then the fumes shouldn't be any issue, especially when it's just an occasional shot, anyway.
H-110 (same powder as W296) is a great powder for the .41 and other magnums. I run 19.1gr behind a LSWC which works well for a hunting load. At least on the deer it killed this season.

7 grs of Unique works well for a hunting load too....

Perhaps I should use the word obnoxious.

H110/296 IS a very accurate powder, provided one is acclimated to the blast and recoil associated with using it. If one is telling me it's not very accurate in the load they are using, it's probably because at the original level the noise, racket and recoil are all road blocks to hitting well for the average shooter.

The paper and deer do not know the difference.

Yep shooter error is the number one problem for causing in accuracy with new hand gunners

Ok, that makes sense. I have not personally found the blast of H-110 to be particularly obnoxious in the .41, but then I also don't try to push it to its absolute max, either.

I've taken a fair number of deer with 8 grs of Unique, mostly using a 230 gr Keith but lately a 217 gr HP. That's what I used last year to take a depredation doe with at 88 yds using my OM Ruger 41 shorty. As Hawk mentions a 2 part softnose cast works well also & I've used them quite a bit. Took my Idaho bull moose & a Ruger SRH 480 with a 370 softnose cast at 45 yds off hand, one shot. Complete penetration & down in about 30 yds or so. A soft nose cast is an amazing bullet. Practice with regular bullets, hunt with the soft nose cast.

Dick

For those of you still using Blue Dot. After the warnings about using Blue Dot in the 41, have you adjusted your loads?