Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles WORST modern bolt gun hunting rifles?

Not very often does Hollywood get anything gun related correct, but they sure did in that movie with Kevin Costner titled "JFK".....The Italian Carcano, just as they said in the movie, "has to be the worst shoulder fired weapon ever made"...If you have ever handled one that is bad enough, but to actually fire one and then think about the actual shooting that was {I guess} done that day....I gotta agree, "the guy couldn't do the shooting" I mean, in reality the idea someone, anyone, did that shooting with that rifle....honestly makes the so-called "magic bullet theory" seem entirely plausible.
I guess you are looking for more modern stuff, but I am just surprised that nobody mentioned this rifle on this thread up until now.

Never crossed my mind that anyone would consider a carcano a 'modern' design.

The problems with the Carcano relate mostly to the bore size (.268") when the common bullets in 6.5 are .264". Sort of a recipe for poor performance, added to a gain-twist barrel, and you've got a whole smorgasboard of crap-on-a-stick. When Hornady does up a batch of ammo for them, they actually DO use .268" bullets, thus making them almost useful. Winchester and Remington (Oswald had both, IIRC) Carcano ammo did NOT use .268" bullets.

No argument that they were crap, but they aren't "modern" crap.

McDonalds has sold more hamburgers than anyone else during my lifetime. No one ever said they were very good; the 700 series is a lot like McDonalds hamburgers.

I don't think the 700 series is the worst design, but it did set the bar for cutting corners. I'm referring to the entire lineup of 700, 600 and 7 series of rifles. Folks complain about the cheap sub-$400 budget rifles but if you look closely most of them are a big improvement over the 700 design. If you compare the 700 series to a $350 Ruger American the Ruger has a stiffer bolt and action, a better extractor, better trigger, better bedding system, better designed bolt handle and all of them I've shot were more accurate. But for 2X the money you can get a shiny stick of wood and metal.

Ouch.

Their POS status must be why virtually every custom action is based on the design. Makes perfect sense to me...

I doubt that I've had 30 but more than ANY other manufacturer Even today I have more 700s than any other. I've had them for years w/o ONE problem. I have NO fear when handling, shooting, or hunting them > too much experience with the ones I have. IF there were problems w/mine "something" would have shown up by now -- hundreds if not thousands of rounds shot.

Yes, they do work.

Jerry

Considering the VAST numbers of 700s made and sold -- it's a very small % that have had failures.

I think POS is far from accurate and far from appropriate.

I'll repeat, name JUST ONE company who has A product with 100% reliability and ZERO failures.
They don't exist.

Jerry

+ 2, Good Point, Sitka

Jerry

The problem with the Walker trigger, which was pointed out by the designer (Walker) and could have been fixed for a few cents per rifle, were not only ignored by Remington, but publicly denied by them for decades. According to court documents Remington classified the trigger problems as “Fire on Bolt Closure, Fire on Bolt Opening, Fire on Safe Release, and Jar Off“.

Remington’s own manufacturing documents showed that a high percentage of the rifles coming off the manufacturing line had improperly adjusted triggers that could result in FOR (Fire On Release of safety) discharges. In the Model 600 series I seem to recall sampling showed over 50% had to be readjusted before shipment.

While it is true that triggers improperly adjusted or maintained by owners/smiths could and undoubtedly have resulted in issues, the fact is that some rifles were prone to FOR problems when they left the factory. In short, people died because Remington refused to raise the cost the trigger by a few cents per rifle – basically putting profits ahead of safety. That isn’t a problem caused by morons or lawyers, it was an easily avoidable problem that resulted from Remington’s poor judgement and greed. Remington denied and people died.

Do Remington extractors break? Most do not, a great many have.

Do Remington’s bolt handles separate from the bolt? Again, most do not, a great many have.

While I liked both the M700’s I’ve had (and I still have one of them), I have no blinders on and no sympathy for Remington. Remington brought the problems on themselves when they decided settling lawsuits would be cheaper than fixing the Walker trigger for a few cents per rifle.

+1. This place is constant entertainment.

I don't think that any of the big three American ammunition makes, FED/REM/WIN, ever offered factory loaded 6.5x52 Carcano ammo. When I was a kid, the only common factory ammo made for foreign military cartridges other than the 7x57 and 8x57 was Norma and in a couple of cases, 6.5x54 M-S and 11mm Mauser come to mind, from CIL.

To you, yes, but let me go check what the premier gunmakers (you know like Echols, WR, H&H, etc) are using. OK done...

The Remington 700 is the firearms industry version of the small block Chevy V8 engine. Common as dirt, easy to work on, and tons of after-market parts for the guy who wants to personalize his property to fit what his idea of good is. I currently have 55 firearms from the Remington 700 family, some original, but most modified in some manner to better meet my specific needs/wants, none of which have had any sort of failure. I am very conscientious about cleaning and maintaining them whenever I use them so that the probability of operator influenced failure is as close to zero as I can make it.

I don't understand why an individual who isn't involved in the industry would care what other people buy or like.

I'm generally pretty careful with my opinions on equipment around here - mostly because one never knows the company they might be keeping within the confines of the campfire.
George, no offense, but with each passing week here, you sound more and more like a haughty aristocrat.

There are far too many people here (and all over the world) that can and do shoot whatever they want, hunt more in a single season than you have in the last 10 years, and could fill your modest trophy room 10-times over - with POS 700's.

I really don't care (or understand) why so many people buy them. There's a reason why there is an entire cottage industry built around bolt pins, extractor replacements, and of course the magnificent trigger. Very accurate rifles indeed, but for me the last straw is a safety that won't lock the bolt. The small block Chevy works fine as is, the 700 does not.

I a Mauser man. 1909 Argentines are my favorites, but have several nice customs on VZ 24. Then there are the M96 Swedes, Huskys and Carl Gustaf's. The Winchester Mod 70 is a variation, as is the Ruger M77, and the Weatherby is variation of sorts.

Remington's have faster lock times, but no African game has noticed in my hands.

I can't stand the Blaser.

I've probably owned close to 100 rifles in the Remington 700 family over the past 50 years, still have 55, and have never had a problem with any of them. A small percentage of a very large number may be a meaningful number to some people, but it remains a very small percentage of the entire production run. Remington may look at their error rate and after comparing that number to the number of 700s produced, find that the error rate is too small to be worth fixing. I would assume that cost to benefit analysis is taught in operations 101 in every MBA program in America.

And of course the litigation pay outs. Tragedies wrought by that POS trigger is of no concern. And I still hate the non locking bolt un-safety. I'm glad you are happy with them.

I'm sure they can, just as sure as I can say the same thing about folks who own Model 70s, Weatherbys, Rugers, etc. It does not detract from the facts of the known issues with 700s. But, making it personal as you have, speaks volumes of an attempt to divert form the factual issues with 700s. The question was asked soliciting opinions and that is exactly what I gave, an opinion on what you ascertain to be limited experience. It sounds like yours must be vast. I'm SO happy for you.