Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires 22 Short and LR Subsonic - for hunting

I know Digital Dan IIRC used/uses the short on hogs/pigs. I passed up some Short ammo the other day, and wondered if I should have grabbed it.

Like to hear from folks on using various Short and subsonic ammo on game. What ammo, results, and how is the accuracy and in what gun, and what range?

Feel free to list your favorites and prices paid if you can.

Thanks.

I like my old Remington 552 Speedmaster (24 inch barrel) and the idea that it can shoot shorts, longs , and long rifles. However Shorts pattern rather than group in it and I haven't seen Longs for sale in 30 years. Wolf Match Target shots very well in it. I sight in at 25 yards and rarely take shots at over 40 yards.

You are not going to get any decent accuracy out of a 22 short unless its fired in a specifically chambered for it along with a 1-20"twist.

Shorts are a pretty dumb idea for hogs unless they are at spitting distances in a trap(as they would be in a packing house).

Subsonics are usually pretty good for hunting if you use the HPs. RWS Subsonkc HPs have proven to be very deadly and quiet in my use for over 30 years.

If I am going to use a solid point Subsomic, it wil be a mid priced target load(which should be subsonic) that is the most accurate in my rifle, and usually that is Wolf MT/SK Standard+.

Yer a funny phuocer.

65BR, shorts are pretty much like the LR in that each gun has its preference. You will find some guns with the LR chamber will shoots different styles of shorts with results ranging from abysmal to superlative. One of mine was a Rem. 572 which shot Winchester shorts better than most LR fodder. It eschewed Remington and CCI shorts.

As to hunting with subs and their accuracy, poke around and you'll probably find something your gun likes. The rest is up to you so far as placement. Target below was shot with a stock 10/22. The CB longs and CCI Quiet fed from the magazine but required a tug on the bolt to make it happen. Others fed fine.



I found that HVHP short ammo suffered somewhat in penetration and quit using it on hogs. The CCI LRSV works OK.

CB shorts thru a 16" twist barrel:



CB shorts thru a skull

Ahhh, found the link I bookmarked on IE.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3795408/1

I would not likely use the CBs in my 77/22, but could perhaps in a Win 72....and I knew a fella who got his limit of 8 squirrels via a BL-22 with Irons and Shorts. Not sure the accuracy either would shoot, but perhaps enough.

In a rifle which takes LR, does one get better accuracy using "Quiet" LR rounds and subsonic LR rounds vs Shorts?

Thanks.

I've been shooting Remington and Fiocchi sub-sonics on red squirrels, ground squirrels, and rabbits in the garden for a while. I use them in either a Remington 514 single shot or an Iver Johnson Sealed Eight revolver. They have been very accurate in the rifle out to 45 yards, about as accurate as Wolf Match had been.

I originally bought them to use in the pistol as it was recommended to not use High Velocity ammo in it as the gun was not built with these in mind. The little HV ammo I did try shot rather high. The sub-sonics shoot to the sights to a bit over 50 feet making it a good garden gun.

Shorts will not eject from the 514 nor the Marlin 39 I inherited from my dad. They are such a pain to use that I have not shot enough shorts to determine accuracy. Indications were they are not nearly as accurate as bulk 22 LR HV. That is fortunate as shorts are now reserved for a High Standard Olympic so chambered.

CCI LR SV





Misc. bullchips





From a Rem 513



No traps involved with the dead porkers, range in the 15-25 yard ballpark.

Almost makes me wish there were feral hogs around here. Note: almost.

Nice work, paper and pork

Heard a few inklings on the Fiocchi and RWS Subsonic, they looked to be good quality LR. Years ago shot a few tree rats using a Marlin 75 Carbine with RP Subsonics. Quite effective.

I would assume on small game the HPs are a bit more effective than solids across the board using LR Subsonics?

No doubt on Pigs the solids drill skull bones well.

Hey Digitial,


I grew up on ranches.Fully aware of a .22 shorts capabillities UP CLOSE on animals all the way up to 1,000lb + cattle with precise placement.

In my post I never said a 22 LR wont kill a hog. Or a short up close.

Really only someone pretty desperate or ignorant would do it when Shorts cost at least $8 per hundred and you can readily buy more accurate and powerfull 22 LR Standard velocity ammo for less money.

Not much point to it unless you just want to prove it can be done under ideal circumstances.Or its all you had at the time.
But you'd still be better off with 22LR SV loads if those hogs are any real distance from the muzzle.

I would agree with that. Part of that goes to the issue of placement vs. a highly mobile target such as squirrel. I'm not a supporter of wounding. If a fella gets to know hogs, they are predictable and that is their weakness in context of the discussion.

On the dang red squirrels the HPs do seem to kill better, at least the tree rats drop right away rather than hang on to the branch for a bit with body hits. The same can mostly be said for ground squirrels for the most part. Those hit in the brain with either type drop right there, those "gophers" which make it back to the tunnels are an unknown as I don't try to dig them up. It does seem that the solids have more runners than the HPs regardless of velocity.

On rabbits, they just die regardless of bullet type. Hits to the heart/lungs or brain with sub-sonics, standard velocity, high velocity, HP, or solid drop them right there. If shrews were much bigger, they would prey on rabbits also.

Just my 2 cents worth having trapped and shot stuff for a lot of years, shorts box up a few classes

I don't think I said that you said a LR won't kill a pig. I don't think I'm desperate or ignorant; in fact I'm probably one of the coldest hearts you've encountered. I suspect my world is not yours insofar as what I deal with in pursuit of the peegs and don't have a clue what you think "short up close" means. This is my turf.......



I haven't baited hogs in 10 years or more. I'm a still hunter.

I'm not doing this for sport, but rather as a volunteer for the state in a substantially regulated affair. That endeavor began a couple of years after I began culling hogs around the house and on neighboring private property. They tell me to use a .22 RF due to proximity of residential properties to the preserve where this takes place, and from 2007 up until last fall that was the deal, take it or leave it. I had two .22 RF guns at the time, one the short shooter, the other a 10/22. At the time the only ammo I had for the 10/22 was WW Power Point and based on short HVHP performance on a couple of pigs using that combo was a non-starter. Last fall the state legalized use of suppressors for hunting and the Sneezer was born.

I commented earlier that the CCI LR SV works ok and it does for the most part. It is not my preference because the bullets do not track in a straight line thru flesh and bone like the CBs. Nope, they tumble, zig and zag. No BFD on a frontal brain shot, but can be a deal on a broadside neck shot, BTDT. Another factor that is of significance is the report of the CBs versus that of the LR SV. They generally are only confused as to origins of the CB report and followup shots are common. Shoot mommy and the shoats mill around waiting for their demise. I've had that opportunity once with the LR SV. So my experience says advantage goes to the CB shorts. YMMV.

And I really don't GAS about costs. I laid on a significant supply of the CBs going back about 15 years ago and still have enough to load a couple or three semi trailers with pork.

At present all the pork goes to a local bad boys rehab facility. They eat well from time to time. Body count over the years is probably up around 140-150, I quit tracking that maybe 5 years back. 80+ fell to the CBs and only one required a second shot.

That said, if your beliefs work for you, by all means keep on keepin' on. I'm not here to sway your judgement.

Good stuff folks, enjoyed and appreciate the info

Dan,

Have you played with the CCI .22 Quiet Segmented Hollow Point?

I have and was not terribly impressed. Shot some paper awhile back with the 10/22 and a half dozen different ammo types. The Quiets ran in the high 600 fps range but accuracy was poor. They were quiet, I'll give 'em that. Groups in the 2" range with most everything else in the 1/2" range.

Picture of that target is up near the top of this thread....

Try em on pests. Pretty cool.

The only rim fire ammo I can recall any of my old uncles ever using back in the day to kill small game and hogs at hog killing time was solid round nose.22 shorts. Never knew them to use long, long rifle or high velocity .22s of any kind or saw any in their .22 ammo stash.

I remember one time back around the late '80s or so one of my elderly uncles was watching me shoot at aluminum soda pop cans set out about thirty yards away in the dirt and gravel road out front of his house using .22 lr hv rounds. Uncle was teasing me at my lack of marksmanship believing I wasn't hitting the cans at all because they weren't falling over or even moving.

I had to go get some of the pop cans and show him the bullet holes through and through to prove that I was hitting them and explain they weren't moving or falling over because the HV bullets were moving so fast that when they struck the cans they just penciled right through the thin aluminum like it was tissue paper. Shaking his head he said he had never seen nor heard of such a thing.

I have shot 36 coons with CCI CB shorts. They sound like a BB gun, which is best for suburbs or if the wife is asleep.

And lots of Eastern Gray squirrels, but not very many rats or crows, they are smart.

I never had any luck accuracy wise with 22 shorts in a LR chamber, I did however back in the 70s have a 241 Rem chambered for 22 shorts that shot them very well, back then I could get std vel 22 shorts that were made by Rem they were very accurate out to about 25-30 yards and deadly on small game at those distances, I also had a 74 Win chambered for them as well, it was fairly accurate but no match for the little 241

Back before the 1970s, the truly serious old time southern squirrel hunters actually preferred 22 shorts in rifles specifically chambered for them(such as your Rem 241). Back then shorts were cost proportinate to the value the brass powder and lead used to make them and about half the cost of 22LR ammo. Nowadays the efficiency of acale alone, makes 22LR cheaper. Back then, shorts saved a depression era shooters money,were more quiet and in guns with short specific chambers and rifling twists as accurate as a 22 LR at any reasonable hunting distance. With HP rounds ,they were solid killers of small game.

Modern shooters can reap the same cost,noise and accuracy advantages those old 22 short users had by using a good .22 PCP airgun with a shroud. I have seen that with my own eyes. Even a 16g 22 round nosed pellet at about 850 FPS thumps the hell out of Fox squirrels at 50 yards with chest shots.

[quote=65BR]I would not likely use the CBs in my 77/22, but could perhaps in a Win 72....and I knew a fella who got his limit of 8 squirrels via a BL-22 with Irons and Shorts. Not sure the accuracy either would shoot, but perhaps enough.

In a rifle which takes LR, does one get better accuracy using "Quiet" LR rounds and subsonic LR rounds vs Shorts?

Thanks.[/quote

Re: CCI Quite LR rounds. The results in my 552, as far as accuracy, was much like DD's. They would however cycle from mag tube to chamber without assistance.

I have been using the Wolf/SK sub sonic for several years now to kill grey/fox squirrels out to 100 yards. Most shots are under 50, but they do have reach and are very accurate/predictable. Noise level is much reduced. I was a CCI mini mag fan for years when I still hunted with my 541, but most all of my rimfire are now loaded with SK. I have been recently trialing the GECO stuff and accuracy is good, but they are not subsonic in my CZ's, but do shoot subsonic in both my Kimber and Annie.

Not just PCP, but also springers and straight pneumos. I whacked some squirrels long ago and far away with my old Crosman pump. PCP is the hot setup for hunting though, with repeaters and the shrouds. Just saw a new PCP semi-auto on the Pyramyd site. Only a .177 and more of a fun plinker than hunter, but they've got the ball rolling. Airguns are very popular with British squirrel hunters. Some dumbass introduced our gray squirrels to Britain where they've become a huge pest and threat to the cutsey English squirrels, which aren't even hunted as far as I know. Payback for starlings and/or Piers Morgan, I suppose. Anyway, the Brits bait the little buggers and put them down with their $1500 BB guns. Never seen mention of them being eaten, so I suspect they go for ferret food.

More good stuff - thanks all.

I've been whacking coons with CCI Short HPs, as I had some for my Remington M24, and they've worked wonderfully well. I use them mostly in that old M24, but they work well in my little CZ Scout, too, loaded singly.

I bought some CCI Quiets last weekend, and tried some yesterday at the range, as I 'd rather use one of my boltguns instead of the decrepit old M24..


The group size at 50 yards wasn't particularly good, and POI was about 7 INCHES lower than the HV stuff the rifles were zero-ed with. I actually saw them hit the ground at about 75 yards. I'm sure they'll work on coons in a trap, but I sure won't use them for anything else.

At least I didn't buy a whole bunch of the things. As it stands now, I'm gonna stick with the Shorts in the Scout. I like that Scout.

I have CCI CB shorts that are 10 years old and very inaccurate.
I have CCI CB shorts that are 2 years old and accurate.
From the same gun, the same day, on the same target.

5 minutes ago.....
Bang flop, and sounded like a BB gun.

CCI CB shorts in a 24" or longer barrel have subsonic gas escapement from behind the bullet.

None of the segmented loads I've tried group very well for me. The solid Quiet 22s do pretty well in my rifle, certainly good enough for practice.

My everyday carry gun is a 3" Model 63 with Stingers. I'd as like use the segmented load that runs at the same speed for that use. They get about all the velocity you're going to get from a short-barrelled .22 revolver.

While we're at it, none of the subsonics have grouped well for me in either the 63 or a Bearcat. They've done okay in autos and a Contender, again good enough for offhand practice at short range. Generally they hit about an inch low at 10 yards compared to "real" ammo.

In my Rem 541-S, I've had really good luck with Remington SS HP's. CCI Green Tags and SV also do well. My longest shot with the Rem SS HP was at a cottontail at 120-125 yards. Popped him just behind the shoulder and he stood up on his hind legs, did a pirouette, ran about five yards and dropped. That was about ten years ago and my brothers and nephews were duly impressed.

Piroutte, sounds like a spinning fidget I've been reading so much about lately. Lol. 541's do seem to impress.......have to love the lock-time, and accuracy.

More good stuff, thanks all. Oh, is the rubber extension above to improve sight pic? Thanks folks.

Yes, the rubber extension blocks other light. I need all the contrast ratio I can get, when I forget and leave the transparent objective lens cap down.

not to change subject has any one had a head seprate 0n a 17hmr one in a rugar 77/17 blew mag to peices smeard the head on bolt face did not heart gun

No flaming you for posting here 44mc but I think your post deserves it's own thread.

ok new to forum do not no what thread means first time posted on gun writers heading told me to ask hear .i do not no much about how site works .feel free to tell me when i screw up so i do not do it again i need all the help i can get on computer stuff

Welcome to the campfire

Green box Eley Sub Sonic HP's are the most accurate in my LH Rem 581 with suppressor. LH Anschutz is a slightly more accurate. But the suppressed Rem 581 is just more fun. Eley HP's versus Federal UM1B solids are about a toss up on squirrels and feral cats. However, the lot of Federals that I am currently working on occasionally "cracks". No cracks from the Eley's or from the Gemtech load rated at 920 fps...

While eating a Sunday dinner recently my wife looked out the window and said "There is a badger in our backyard", and we live in the suburbs not the country. We do have a chicken coup in the back yard and he was messing around with the wire trying to get in. I had previous experience with raccoons on our front porch eating the cat food and had prepared for another raccoon attack with a Ruger Single Six 6.5" load with CB caps. I quickly grabbed it and went out into the fenced backyard and shot at the badger at about 20-25 yards and it appears that I hit him 2 times out of the six by his reaction which was very minimal to say the most.

I then hurried downstairs to get a dedicated CZ .22lr bolt scoped rifle with a suppressor attached and loaded it up with CCI SV solids. By then he had crossed the back yard and was about 20-25 yards away when I shot him twice with those SV rounds. The first one must have hit him farther back than optimal and maybe in his hips as he was dragging the back end when I shot him in the head with the second shot. DRT.

subsonics are all i use for rimfire applications anymore. squirrel, armadillo, rabbit, and other form of vermin fall before it like a scythe. wolf MT is the best, CCI SV 2nd best.

I like the Aguila SS HP's for rabbits and gophers.



Dave

'Flave, I use those, too.

But my primary suburban crow & skunk load is the RWS SS HP thru a threaded Savage in black cherry Tacticool put together for wife.

With Aviator on it it's "click-Thump" and dead crows tumbling from pine.

Aviators are key.

No doubt.




Travis