Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Finn Aagaard - Shots With The .308

I've got that magazine in my tub-o-magazines somewhere and have read that piece a number of times. Thanks for saving me the job of digging though the stacks.

Thanks for posting that.

Finn has been gone for a while now, but I re-read his books every year or so. I always come away thinking that he wrote everything that needs to be said about hunting rifles, and that if I find myself too far from what he was thinking, then I'm overlooking something important. His writing wasn't as elegant as O'Connor's or as forceful as Cooper's, but he had at least as much experience as either of them and none of the ego.

Many years ago, I wrote him a letter asking about his experience with the Scout rifle. His reply was printed on a dot-matrix printer. The pages had separated along the perforations, but he taped them together, which got the job done. THAT was Finn Aagaard in a nutshell.


Okie John

Okie: What did Finn say about the Scout rifle? I know he was a friend of Clifton.

My first elk hunt -- Idaho - Nez Pierce Pass area - 308 Rem 600 with K4 Weaver, hand-loaded 180 grain Speer bullets, forget the powder, but probably H4895. Poo hoo'd by the other hunters who said their 7mm RM's could shoot across the canyon. Mine was limited to 100 yards. I think the canyon width was >> 500 yards...

So true!

I took my first big game animal with a .308 in 1997 which I can't believe was 20 years ago already! In '67 I was still 17 years in the making

Aagaard and Cooper admired one another, and Aagaard felt that Cooper was an original thinker who found new solutions to problems by approaching them from new angles. I have no idea about Aagaard's relationship with Clifton except that it was based on respect for his skills as a riflemaker.

I believe that Aagaard was more impressed with the Scout concept than with its execution. In that letter he pointed out that when Cooper built a Scout rifle for his daughter Lindy, it was a pseudo-scout in 30-06 on a 1903 action. And while he kept the Scout rifle that Mr. Clifton sent him, he continued to use short rifles (usually military surplus 98 Mausers with low-powered conventional scopes in Weaver rings/bases and B&C stocks) in 308 and 30-06. I think that if he were alive today, he'd prefer a modern variable with a good 1x low end, I think that he’d consider the Scout a good idea whose time had come and gone because it had been overtaken by newer developments that achieve the same goal with less hassle and expense.

I also think that he'd still be using a milsurp 98 in 30-06 with a steel-tube Weaver 2.5x scope for 99% of his personal hunting. It might be in a McMillan stock, but otherwise it would be identical to the rifles he built in the 1970's.


Okie John

Okie, I really don't think so. Reading Finn starting in the 8o's, through the 90's til' his death, I believe his preference had definitely swung to the lighter recoiling 308 Win.

Sweet, now we are 'arguing' about what a guy, that you didn't know and is16 years dead would/wouldn't use. Fascinating.

I also don't think Finn would choose a .30-06 over the .308. We corresponded some about rifles and cartridges, and I also got to take a look at his book full of loading and hunting notes after he died, thanks to Berit bringing it to a get-together in Texas. One of the many things Finn and I agreed about was the tendency of many hunters to be
"over-gunned," and another part of the agreement was that the .308 would do just about anything the .30-06 would.

My opinion on the subject of the .308/.30-06 question is also based on some experience. I am now down to one .30-06, the NULA Model 24 I've used in quite a few places around the world for 20 years, and its one rifle I'll probably always keep. But my wife Eileen and I own four .308's, and have taken 22 species of big game with them in various countries from northern Canada to southern Africa. We have yet to find the .308 wanting with any of the numerous bullets we've used.

When Finn hunted with us in '97 or so, he mentioned the 25-06 (which I was using at the time) was about perfect for plains game. Well, Montana plains game anyway.

That was before laser rangefinders, so if anything the affordable laser rangefinders of today makes the 308 better than ever, and it wouldn't surprise me if Finn would still use a 308 if he were still around.

FWIW, I had mentioned to Finn how I really wanted to be a sniper. A month or so later, a box arrived with the "Death From Afar" book series within, signed by the authors to Finn. A very nice gift from a very good man.

If Finn had been told the .270 was gay, he would have responded, "How do you know this to be true?'

Ever load a 308 with a 200 grain bullet? What was the result? I recall an interview someone had with WDM Bell where Bell said he thought a 308 would have been great when he hunted Africa. Interesting thought from the guy most associated with the 7x57 Mauser.

Yeah. I have, but it was a while back. Got just under 2500 fps with the 200-grain Speer in a Winchester Model 88. Used Hodgdon's maximum listed load and there wasn't any problem with extraction.


These days there's more 200-grain data for the .308, even though some companies don't provide any at all. Ramshot lists 44.2 grains of TAC as getting 2555 fps with the Sierra MatchKing, and Hodgdon lists 45.3 CFE223 for 2582 fps with the Swift A-Frame. Not many animals on earth that couldn't be hunted with that. But we also haven't has any trouble with anything up to elk-size, either here or in Africa, with 150's.

John, I've got 3 308's and 1 30-06 that's going to get rebarreled. I doubt I'll ever own another 30-06.

In the 308, I'm a 165 gr bullet guy, but I don't use mono's.

Also, it's not hard to get 2,650 with a 180 and several powders from a 22" barrel, though I have yet to see the need for more than a 165 in the 308. My last two bulls, a 6x6 and 7x7, both fell to 165's from my Kimber MT 308.

I agree with the LRF and dots, etc.---- IF you have time to use them.


Secondly, man I am so 'envious' of you in two ways. First for having the opportunity to know Mr. Finn personally

And for having the books - signed by the authors TO Mr. Finn.

S A L U T E'


Jerry

Yeah, meant to comment on your post Billy. Super cool you got to meet Finn and receive such a gift. Nearly everything the man wrote struck a chord with me. But I'm generally a "less is more" kind of person...

these discussions are never good for me... because when you offer the 308 as a baseline rifle, and describe how the Giants used it, and how it gets so much done for so little fuss, i just want to go out and get one, but first i am tempted to ballistic-gack-check it against what I already have, for example a 165 in the 308 against a 160 in my 280... and of course my 280 will push it faster and the 7mm will fly flatter with less wind drift, and then i have pretty much talked myself out of getting a 308. you guys have saved me a ton of money on new rifles, but isn't the whole idea of the campfire exactly the opposite?

The 308 is overlooked and underrated, except by those that have actually used it on a variety of game.

Thanks Jerry, I still feel very fortunate to have had the chance to meet and hunt with Finn!

Agreed on the "time" factor, as well. Sometimes all a guy has time to do (especially with the big, mature animals) is shoot, not fart around with rangefinders and what not!