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Greggo Offline OP
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http://www.cabelas.com/product/gun-library/richfield-gun-library%7C/pc/103792680/c/105949080/winchester-model-70-270-win-/2132363.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Frichfield-gun-library%2F_%2FN-1103684%2FNo-640%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D80

Having this gun shipped to my local Cabelas to take a peak at it...with the current 10% off used gun sale, this can be had for under $700.

This is obviously a modified gun, but is it worth $700? Any idea brand of stock it is? Any specific items I need to check before buying?

Serial number is 162931. I'm not a Pre-64 expert and would appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.

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I sent you a pm about the rifle.

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Originally Posted by Greggo
http://www.cabelas.com/product/gun-library/richfield-gun-library%7C/pc/103792680/c/105949080/winchester-model-70-270-win-/2132363.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Frichfield-gun-library%2F_%2FN-1103684%2FNo-640%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D80

Having this gun shipped to my local Cabelas to take a peak at it...with the current 10% off used gun sale, this can be had for under $700.

This is obviously a modified gun, but is it worth $700? Any idea brand of stock it is? Any specific items I need to check before buying?

Serial number is 162931. I'm not a Pre-64 expert and would appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.



No need to be secretive here. Without sending a PM, I'll lay it out on the table as I see it..... This is what I see from the pictures:

1. pre 64 model 70 std. wt. made in 1950.
2. Wears a very nice synthetic stock, which appears to be a Brown Precision at first glance.
3. Metal looks to be cerakoted graphite black.
4. Seller (Cabela's) says it has an "excellent" bore.

My honest opinion believes you'd be crazy not to buy it at $700.00. Now if someone else sees it differently, I bet the OP would love to hear your thoughts...


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Yup... that's a steal at 700


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That is a great price, good deal for sure.


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I agree with BSA about the stock. The shape and the color say "Brown Precision" to me. FWIIW, the Brown Precision I have for a Classic has a thicker pad with a Brown Precision logo. This is different than the Pachmayr Cabela's says it has, but things change, so I'm still betting Brown Precision. The original finish was a matte receiver with a glossy barrel, so BSA is correct that something has been done.

My opinion, if you want an example of a Pre '64 as they were sold to see what they are all about, this is not what you are looking for. However, if you are looking for a damn good hunting rifle, assuming it functions like it should and is as accurate as many Pre '64's are, that rifle, in .270, in a Brown Precision stock, for $700 is a no brainer. If it were a Featherweight, it might be a double no brainer.

What to look for? Obviously, look at the bore. If they let you take it out of the stock, see what the barrel stamp says. It might be a year or so earlier than the year of the serial number. If they won't let you pull the stock, a 1950 standard weight barrel should have an integral front sight ramp as opposed to one that is soldered on. Even with the aftermarket finish, these are easy to spot if you know what to look for. If you don't have Rule's book, maybe Google Fu can help you here. There are no sure things, but an original 1950 M70 barrel in good shape is a good start toward an accurate rifle. Dummy cartridges are probably the only way they are going to let you check feeding in the store. If you cannot load your own (NO primers, not just fired primers), A-Zoom brand snap caps might be your best bet. A two pack would let you check feeding from both sides. Four in the magazine would be even better.

If you were my neighbor and said "Hey, want to come with me to look at this rifle?", you bet I would.

Last edited by GunDoc7; 06/11/17.

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Originally Posted by GunDoc7
I agree with BSA about the stock. The shape and the color say "Brown Precision" to me.

Yep on the Brown stock. The thin pad is an option. As for calling it a "Pachmayr", I wonder if that is just because for some people the brand name "Pachmayr" has become synonymous with "recoil pad", sort of like the brand name Chapstick has become the name which is generically applied to all brands of... well, chapstick (with a small C)!

Originally Posted by GunDoc7
The original finish was a matte receiver with a glossy barrel, so BSA is correct that something has been done.

It looks like the action and barrel have been Cerakoted, or Duracoated. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want, but there is no easy way to return a rifle to a standard finish from Cerkote/Duracoat, if you don't want a painted action.

On that last point, I am always cautious about rifles which have been "customized". I like customized model 70s and personally own several, including a favorite which is Cerakoted. However, if the work was done by anyone less than a perfectionist, "customizations" can be a nightmare. Many gun owners are hopeless tinkerers, all believing they are qualified to stone the trigger, lap the bolt, or otherwise "improve" the rifle. The quality is frequently sub-standard and often these backyard gunsmiths do a lot of damage to an otherwise fine rifle. I would not steer you away from this rifle if you are looking for a nice pre-64 shooter you can hunt with. However, I would look it over very closely before deciding it is a great deal.

Good luck and let us know what you find when you finally get to see it in person!

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Originally Posted by pre64win
Originally Posted by GunDoc7
I agree with BSA about the stock. The shape and the color say "Brown Precision" to me.

Yep on the Brown stock. The thin pad is an option. As for calling it a "Pachmayr", I wonder if that is just because for some people the brand name "Pachmayr" has become synonymous with "recoil pad", sort of like the brand name Chapstick has become the name which is generically applied to all brands of... well, chapstick (with a small C)!

Originally Posted by GunDoc7
The original finish was a matte receiver with a glossy barrel, so BSA is correct that something has been done.

It looks like the action and barrel have been Cerakoted, or Duracoated. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want, but there is no easy way to return a rifle to a standard finish from Cerkote/Duracoat, if you don't want a painted action.

On that last point, I am always cautious about rifles which have been "customized". I like customized model 70s and personally own several, including a favorite which is Cerakoted. However, if the work was done by anyone less than a perfectionist, "customizations" can be a nightmare. Many gun owners are hopeless tinkerers, all believing they are qualified to stone the trigger, lap the bolt, or otherwise "improve" the rifle. The quality is frequently sub-standard and often these backyard gunsmiths do a lot of damage to an otherwise fine rifle. I would not steer you away from this rifle if you are looking for a nice pre-64 shooter you can hunt with. However, I would look it over very closely before deciding it is a great deal.

Good luck and let us know what you find when you finally get to see it in person!

Justin


Sound advice there....x2


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Greggo Offline OP
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Thanks for the suggestions so far guys...really appreciate it. Now I hope it shows up before the weekend.

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Justin,

Even a reasonably high condition rifle could have undergone some substandard "Bubba" gunsmithing. So I suppose the question is as follows. In your experience, do you tend to find more of those shenanigans with restocked and refinished guns than with used but decent condition originals? I ask because I inferred you might be more leery of "customized" guns. Yet my inference may not be what you intended to imply.


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Hi Don.

The short answer to your question is "Yes." I definitely find that guns which are visibly "customized" (re-stocked, re-barreled, refinished, etc) tend to have more things screwed up on them than those which have been maintained in the original factory configuration. There's no hard rule, however. I have purchased a number of .300 H&H rifles in original looking condition, only to find they have been rechambered but never re-stamped, and their bolts refaced with the work looking like it was done by a neanderthal. I have also bought heavily customized rifles where literally every part of the gun is in some way changed, and have found the workmanship to be incredibly good.

As a business owner, I pretty much have no choice but to buy parts and rifles form all over the country without seeing them first. It's just a reality of the amount of volume which moves through our shop. Most parts and rifles are fine with nothing modified by past owners. But some are really screwed up. I would estimate around 5% to 10% of what we buy never goes for sale on our website because we deem it unfit. That's just a business reality, since it would slow me down too much and cost me too much to see everything before I buy it.

But I'm not just a business owner. As a personal collector of pre 64 model 70s, I rarely buy from someone I don't know or from a source where I don't have the luxury of holding it in my hands before I commit myself to the purchase. For this reason, GunBroker and other online sources of rifles are not my favorite place for a personal rifle purchase. I have bought some of my own guns online, but only when the seller had a good reputation and a return policy I felt comfortable with.

Best regards from Seattle,

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Justin,

Thanks for the reply. Good info there for all of us from someone who has seen a lot of rifles. Just one question. If a .300 H&H is re-chambered (SOB! Take that either way, crying or explicative), presumably to .300 Weatherby, why must the bolt be refaced?

Best from Texas,
Doc


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Originally Posted by GunDoc7
Justin,

Thanks for the reply. Good info there for all of us from someone who has seen a lot of rifles. Just one question. If a .300 H&H is re-chambered (SOB! Take that either way, crying or explicative), presumably to .300 Weatherby, why must the bolt be refaced?

Best from Texas,
Doc

And that's the point - there's no need to reface the bolt. I suppose people think they are "blueprinting" the action by truing up one of the action parts. However, I see bolt faces trued all the time on actions which still have factory faces on the receiver. This means the receiver was never trued first, making truing the bolt face a wasted effort.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for blueprinting an action when building a rifle for exceptional accuracy. But if the process doesn't begin with bore-lining and truing the receiver, nothing you do to the bolt will make a difference.

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Got the call from Cabelas today that the gun came in. Hoping to head there after work tomorrow. Guy on the phone seemed alarmed when I asked to pull the action out of the stock...I'm hoping someone else is working tomorrow.

Borrowed some a-zoom .270s from a buddy to try cycling. Hopefully all goes well! I appreciate everyone's comments!

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Greg,

Great buy on a nice set up; as verified by others here, it definitely bears characteristics of a Brown.

One caveat, take a good look at the bore. I've personally seen a few where Cabelas "over-rated" condition, especially when it comes to the barrel.

Good luck with your purchase.

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Well, I picked the gun up on Thursday and dropped it off at the local gunsmith to run through it quick. I figured $30 was cheap insurance. First thing he said when I pulled it out of the case was Brown Precision Stock.

I didn't have time to buy a new scope for the gun, so I threw a crappy Simmons 8 point on that was laying around the basement. Just shot Remington Core Lokt 130's through it to get it on paper. Shot three times at 50 yds after bore sight and all three were touching. Moved the target out to 100 and shot 5 times, three of which were touching. Not sure if barrel heat or mirage or my shooting skill caused the climb, but I'm very happy with the gun. Thanks everyone for the advice. Now to get a decent scope and start reloading.

Target is attached.

Greg

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