Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Loaded ammo through a Body Die?

Shortly after beginning load development in an old 788 in 6mm, I acquired a sweet little custom built on a Model Seven action. Realizing the potential for problems, I checked some brass fired in the 788 and sure enough, it was too tight for the Model Seven. Knowing what to do (which is not the same as doing it right), I adjusted my FL die so that brass fired in the 788 would cycle in the Seven. Evidently, I missed something because a handful of the cartridges I loaded up fit the Seven too tightly and I am all but certain they are the brass that were fired in the 788. I'm not sure how I managed to screw this up but I sure did it.

I have Lee collet neck dies and Redding body dies also which will be used for loading 6mm as needed in the future, so I've been thinking about the feasibility of using that body die to bump shoulders back a thousandth or two on these tight fitting rounds. I do realize what would happen should a primer detonate while doing this, but I don't see how that could possibly happen. OTOH, I do know that the most unlikely things DO happen sometimes, and it could be a lot more likely than I am imagining. Due to the seriousness of the possible consequences of a mishap, I am reluctant to attempt this without a lot more consideration and I'd like a little good advice.

So, I'm asking what y'all think: am I being overly cautious, or is this a very bad idea?

What's stopping you from pulling the bullets and fixing this the normal way?

Tried it once and stuck a loaded round , buried Body Die in a deep lake. Not worth the risk.

Was having lots of issues when my RCBS die lock ring slipped did not notice it till I went to fire rounds.
So I had a bunch of loaded rounds to resize. Stuck a loaded round about the second try, now I had a problem
was not worth the risk to me or anyone else, so I gave it a burial.

Was thinking about trying it again on some 308 rounds I had loaded for a tight chamber 308 I sold and am going to pull the bullets. Rather than relearn the process.

Its a pain to segregate loads for different rifles in the same caliber esp. if one is a tight chamber.

Last month I stuck a loaded round in my tight chamber 06 quite a rodeo to get it out safely.

Laziness, I suppose. Looking for the easy way---as long as it's "safe and effective," as they say in the commercials.

THAT is the voice of experience and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, KK.

how long will it take to grow new eyes or some new fingers? not trying to be a smart ass but the potential for disaster is to great.
are the tight rounds impossible to chamber or just stiff closing the bolt? if impossible pull them. med bills and loss of work make the time worth it.

I am not certain, never tried it...

Actually, I think the consequences of a mishap would probably be even more serious than that. I just can't imagine how a primer could be detonated. It's a moot point, though. KK Alsaka's been down this road and I'm not one to go off reinventing the square wheel.

I have one rifle with a tight chamber.

Any factory load I wanted to shoot in it had to be run through a small base body die. I've probably done this with around a thousand rounds, and never had an issue, and i don't under stand the worry warts thinking a slight resizing would cause a detonation.

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason for a load cartridge to go off while the body's being resized.

The only problem with a body die is some have pretty tight necks, but a body die for a larger-caliber cartridge on the same basic case often works, since there's some variation in sizing dies. My Redding 7x57 FL die apparently has a slightly smaller base, and has slimmed down quite a few .257 Roberts cases that would work in one of our .257's but not another. Which is yet another reason I usually don't sell dies, even if I no longer have a rifle in that chambering: With a wide die selection of dies you can often solve such annoying but relatively minor loading problems.

The primer won't be touched since it is over the hole in the shellholder and ram. I resized some loaded ammo with a Redding body die, IIRC it was because I had it loaded up for one rifle but sold that rifle before I could shoot it up, then the rounds wouldn't fit in my other rifle similarly chambered.

First I inserted a couple of loaded rounds bullet first in the top of the die to make sure there was enough clearance around the necks. Then I applied lube on each case by hand making sure not to get any on the primer - probably wouldn't have hurt but I was being careful. I did one first to set the die and make sure the rounds would chamber easily, then did the rest. After sizing all of them I used a paper towel with some lighter fluid to completely remove the lube by hand. Successfully resized almost a full box of 50 that way with no problems.

Not something you want to do all the time but it does work.

Up from the ashes rises an idea mistakenly believed to be dead. I have plenty of sizing lube so I think I'll give it a whirl. I really didn't want to be in one of those "why-in-hell-didn't-I-see-that-would-happen" situations, which are unfortunately not unfamiliar to me, myself, and I.

Thank you, gentlemen.

I do it all the time....nothing to worry about....

just make sure the round is lubed....

Good way to buckle a case especially if it is a compressed load. The best option in my opinion is to take a reamer to the short chamber and try to get as good of a match as possible. It can be done by hand and if not a major difference then you are basically just polishing the chamber. Another option is to take a fired round from the 788 put some valve grinding compound on it chuck it in a drill and polish the Model 7's chamber. But I would first check the head space on the 788 as they are rumored to have bolt setback problems more easily due to the rear lug lock up. Best option set the barrels back and rechamber both with the same reamer this would give you the best chance of having interchangeable ammo if the throats and chambers match. Not sure if it's available but using nickle cases for one and plain for the other could prevent headaches of just two different head stamps.

My 2 cents and worth every penny.

River Rider What is preventing you from shooting them in the old rifle they were originally shot in? Cheers NC

I understand that some do this but for myself there is no way in hell am I putting a live round in any type of chamber not part of a firearm, particularly an extremely hard to brittle one.

NC, the Model Seven was a replacement for the 788. I normally keep one rifle per caliber, the exception being 5.56/.223 these days since I am housing some AR15s in addition to my .223 bolt gun. I decided I was not happy with the 788 and went looking around on-line for something else in 6mm and found this Model Seven custom and decided I had to have it (and it IS a shooter!), so the 788 is now on the chopping block. I acquired the 788 from a friend who told me it shot very well for him, but it just never shot very well for me---that happens. I've passed along rifles that wouldn't shoot well for me, but shoot just fine for the new owners. I'm not sure why that is, but I do believe it happens and probably because of stock fit and maybe even shooting habits and technique. Anyway, the bottom line is that I just don't care to shoot the 788 anymore. I LOVE the Model Seven!

I have 4 different 308 rifles and have used the body die to make adjustments on loaded ammo a bunch of times....no problem at all.
I have also used my 308 Forster bump die to bump shoulders on my 708..... they are called reloading tools.....use em!

Fired brass hardens and will need to be sized slightly more due to setback than virgin brass. So when setting up an FL die to size brass fired in a larger chamber to fit a tighter chamber, you need to make sure you're fully sizing the brass, not partial fl sizing. Even then occasionally you'll get fl brass that just doesn't size down enough to fit.

Just buy virgin brass and have dedicated brass for the tight chambered gun. No risk of accidentally having a round that won't chamber at the wrong time, like on a hunt.

Well may rethink this tried using my Redding Body die on my 308 loaded rounds and it worked great well lubed and just bumped them enough to be usable. The last time I tried it and stuck one on my 6.5 X 284 shoulder is a lot harder to bump back. Have the brass well segregated now.

RCBS went to a soft brass lock screw that is easy to strip, which caused my dies to slip. Went to the old Hornady split rings to solve that issue.

Brass was once fired Hornady and annealed after first firing. I do NOT FL size any rifle brass at all unless it's going to be used in an AR or other semi-auto.

I think I probably was just a little too conservative in the way I set up my FL die. It will be corrected with about a 0.002" increase in shoulder bump. My body die will get proper attention too.

R R

First off, I don't load for any semi-A so I don't Full Length size ANY brass.

I've had great performance from P Fl sizing. Interestingly enuff, even P Fl sized brass has worked w/o
problems in 1 Tikka 270 & 2 Rem M Sixes. I was expecting to have to size a little differently for 1 or more
of them but didn't have to. I can't explain it but glad all the same.

I work the brass AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE and I have good case life to boot.

Jerry

edit to add : That is the SAME die for 3 diff 270s. Also I have multiple Belted Mags
and P Fl sizing works great w/good case life.

I just use a triangular file and nick the rim to segregate the cases.

Yup.

Actually, I had forgotten about my old 94 in .30-30, and I have that die set up to FL size, but just a bit loosely. I've used partial FL sizing for everything else for many years myself, so I know the pitfalls....it just so happens that I fell into a known pitfall this time. Again. I don't like it when that happens, but it does now and then.

One thing about partial FL sizing that I discovered a long time ago: it does NOT necessarily eliminate unwanted working of the brass. Depending on the geometry of the case, very often the shoulder will flow forward to some extent before it is bumped back in the die. I think it IS effective in extending case life, as compared to conventional FL sizing and you do get a better fit to the chamber, but it is not a perfect technique by any stretch (pun intended). That's why I've outfitted with Lee Collet dies and Redding Body dies. IMO, collet dies are worthwhile just for the fact that case lubing is not necessary. I'm always open to something that eliminates some of the PITA in handloading. And I am glad I asked the question posed in this thread, too. It is possible that running the offending cartridges through my body die will not address the issue (I'm a believer in the adage that "you don't know until you KNOW"), but if it does work it will save me having to pull bullets, deprime, and start over.

I haven't been able to detect an accuracy advantage in partial sized brass, and I'll take no worries 100% feeding over a perceived accuracy advantage any day. I fl size my 223 brass so it will run through my bolt guns or my AR's and brass prepped thusly with a good load results in 1/2 moa 5 shot groups from my M700 varmint rifle.

If you like it and it works for you, then there's no reason for you to change a thing.

I'll get my own issue straightened out and be happy with the way I'm doing things myself.

We don't all have to have the same approach to this game, or do things the same way. There must be 50 ways to leave---errrr, I mean skin the cat!

This is the answer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JSTUART,

Your statement puzzles me: "I understand that some do this but for myself there is no way in hell am I putting a live round in any type of chamber not part of a firearm, particularly an extremely hard to brittle one."

How do you seat bullets?

I think that the problem is that, after you resize the neck of an empty case, seating the bullet expands it a little. A die that pushes back the shoulder of a loaded round also tries to resize the neck, but the bullet prevents this and the round can get stuck, unless you use a body die for a larger case as MD suggested.

No way would I try this, even with lubricant.

The clearance of a bullet seating die is a lot more.

How many rounds are involved? Why not just pull the bullets?

Not necessarily so. Many times I've used a Redding 308 Win. body to brush back shoulders of loaded 308 Win rounds. You should check for clearance and mine has plenty. MD's suggestion was for if there was a tight situation. Then you should use a die for a larger necked cartridge.

My other comment is that often the problem that's preventing easy chambering of resized cases isn't the shoulder being too far forward, but the base of the case being too large in diameter.

The other possibilities, that I have found from experience, are that the neck has been deformed in the seating, and/or the cases are a bit overlength. With a chamber which is tight in the neck area this can make it hard to chamber rounds.

It might be worth painting a few rounds with a Sharpie and trying to chamber them to see just where it is that they are tight

That's a good idea, Dan, and done.

I tried running the cases through the body die, and it did NOT take care of the problem. I painted up one round as Dan suggested and verified that the body diameter near the case head was the issue, just like Mule Deer suggested above. I doubt I would have thought of it before this thread began, but I happen to have FL die sets for several cartridges based on the '06 and decided to try them with the decapping stems removed. My .35 Whelen sizing die didn't do the trick, but my .280 Remington die did.

So, several things learned here, and that in itself would be worthwhile but I actually found a solution to the immediate problem...and even got to take the easy way out!

Thanks fellas.

I had base sizing issues with my .257 Roberts cases since I owned four rifles in that caliber at the same time. I solved it by sending 3 down the road and working with the one. Voila! Problem solved.

I am reluctant to join this but here goes. Just before getting on an airplane for a three week trip to Africa, I loaded my ammo using new cases. The rifle, a 270, had a minimum chamber and the new brass was on the large side. About half wouldn't quite chamber. I was short on time, I had to be in the airport in 5 hours. I couldn't load 100 more shells.

So, I borrowed a 30-06 sizer from a buddy and tried to bump the shoulder back. It didn't move the 270 shoulder back quite enough. So, I cut a shim from an aluminum Diet Coke can that fit between the shellholder face and the rear of the casehead. Problem solved. Pushed enough of the shoulder back so each shell chambered just fine. Went hunting. The ammo was particularly accurate. I guessed the process had produced very straight ammo.

[quote=Mule Deer]JSTUART,

Your statement puzzles me: "I understand that some do this but for myself there is no way in hell am I putting a live round in any type of chamber not part of a firearm, particularly an extremely hard to brittle one."

How do you seat bullets?

thinking like that is why you get paid the big bucks!

Many many times I have used a Redding Body Die to make minor adjustments to the case shoulder on loaded ammo. Also have used a Redding Type S Bushing Die, without bushing, to do the same thing. Works great.

I don't have any worries while doing it, but if you do, that's fine too.

I had my 223 rebarreled, and the new barrel had a real tight chamber. Much tighter than the original barrel. I had maybe 300 rounds loaded that would no longer chamber. Rather than pull them, I just ran them through the Type S Bushing Die, with no bushing, and it worked great and was a fast fix. They shot great in the new barrel.

You are welcome to do as you wish...and I shall continue to not put loaded rounds through a die.

So seating a bullet on top of a column of powder when the round is confined within a seating die is different?

I think that was MDs point, not that I speak for him.....

Things don't just happen, they happen for a reason. If the primer cup is not receiving impact or stress there's no reason the primer would detonate.

I saw the thread about impact pullers causing primer detonation. That's a different deal. Nothing strikes the primer cup, but I believe the priming compound pellet comes loose and impacts the anvil with enough force to detonate. I've used an impact puller myself for years and never had such a thing happen, but I'm thinking the whole thing over the last couple of days.

I think the chances of a loaded round detonating while being run through a body die is probably about ten thousand times less than when pulling bullets using an impact puller.

How about the way rounds powered by Cordite are made? Primed, straight-walled case receives its powder charge AND THEN the neck is formed. It's an assumption, I'll admit, but I think a very safe one: those cases are primed before the Cordite goes in. I think I'd MUCH rather do it that way than the try and prime cases already holding a powder charge---even if the powder won't leak out the flash hole.

I think it would take some doing to screw up enough for a loaded round to go off in a body die. I'm not sure I could figure out how to make that happen without some very deliberate stupid moves.