Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Ruger Model 77 as a “faux” Pre-war German Sporter (tons of pictures)

Or, mein ersatz Vorkriegsdeutsches Sportgewehr by R. J. Renner. Some folks on the original thread for these asked me to report back about this so here you go. Read the details or skip to the pictures and captions.

Before going further a big shout out to Roger, the R of R.J. Renner. He is a great guy to work with, very friendly and helpful and loves to talk about guns. He knows a lot about this subject and is an excellent craftsman. He suggested a few things here and there for authenticity and also saved me a good bit of money by modifying the existing metal finish on my rifle when I was going to have it completely reblued. In the past I’ve worked with cantankerous gunsmiths and stockmakers that sometimes weren’t as good as they said they were but Roger is top notch in my book.

He didn’t ask me to post this, btw, but here’s his website.
http://www.rjrenner.com/about-us.html
If any of you have looked before he’s added some more options and pictures of different rifles besides Rugers he works on. He can even turn a Remington Model 700 into something that looks like an old time Jaeger might have used.

Basically the whole idea is to turn your modern Model 77 or other rifle into something that looks like a new pre-war Mauser Sporter that was stored away for 90-100 years. Since I never have been able to find those LH original Mausers at gunshows this appealed to me quite a lot.

The end result is extremely pleasing to my eye but it’s not just cosmetic, not by a long shot. Those pre-war German Sporters were slender and lively rifles and Roger tries to capture that in his work. The subtle changes in dimensions really make a big difference in handling. That can’t be shown in pictures but with the reshaped stock the rifle has a lithe and lively feel that, well, you just have to feel it to see.

Details:
Stock Ruger Model 77 Hawkeye .30-06
Timney trigger I installed for a crisp 2 pound pull.
Factory slotted screws replaced with hex head screws (free from Ruger)
R. J. Renner "pre-war 77“ treatment:
- Reshape the forend to a short, slim schnabel and rechecker.
- Add a barrel mounted sling swivel stud dovetailed and soldered in place.
- Thin and recontour the stock around the action leaving the raised panels.
- Lower and shorten the nose of the comb, recontour and slim the pistol grip and recut factory checkering.
- Lightly polish the bolt to remove the dull factory gray and give it an "in the white“ look.
We added a couple of extra touches, a steel grip cap and his "vintage“ finish. The rifle came with a 1“ black recoil pad but the stock had not been cut so I got a red pad factory replacement from Ruger (again for free, thanks Ruger!) which was installed to a factory LOP of 13 ½“.
NECG ghost ring rear peep with their Masterpiece banded ramp front sight.
Unloaded weight with sights before reshaping was 7 lbs 7.5 ounces, after reshaping it comes in at 7 lbs 3 oz.



The longer story:

Back in February Cigar posted a thread here titled "Have you seen this?“ and linked to Roger’s website, showing how he converts Ruger #1’s, 3’s and 77’s into "faux“ Rigby stalking rifles and Mauser styled pre-war German sporters. I thought that was too cool for school and contacted Roger about building one for me. I requested a work order in late February to reserve my place in line and Roger emailed the first week of May that he was ready to start work on this. I shipped it off to him on May 6th with a deposit and it arrived back here on June 17th. It’s worth noting that the rifle was shipped the same day as my final payment arrived, in fact according to tracking the payment arrived at 11:30 AM and the rifle was sent priority mail around 2:30 that afternoon.

The original plan called for converting a LH Model 70 but after a few false starts with three different rifles whose stock dimensions were incorrect or unsuitable for one reason or another I found the perfect candidate in the Classifieds here for a very reasonable price – a LH Ruger 77 Hawkeye with very decent factory wood in my most favoritest all time caliber, .30-06, and as a bonus it had an NECG Masterpiece banded ramp front sight already installed. I didn’t have time to do any load workup but tested some "loads that work“ from other rifles. Initial results show this to be a typical recent manufacture Ruger, definitely sub-moa for four shots with the best group at 5/8“ so far. More load workup may shave that some but honestly I'd be happy as is. The rifle is to be used with peep sights so even if 5/8" is the best it will do that's fine with me, I couldn't shoot a group that tight with a peep anyway.

Normally you can do a nice trigger job on Ruger 77’s but since this was going to be something special I sprang for a new Timney trigger. Took a while to file down the safety tab but it fits perfectly now and has a very clean break at 2 pounds with just enough overtravel for reliability. I may adjust it a bit heavier but will leave it there for now while I do more load workup. The safety goes on and off very smoothly but the trigger absolutely does not move when it is applied.

Same idea about it being something special went toward a couple of extra cost options in having Roger acquire and install a steel grip cap and apply his vintage finish instead of a standard hunter finish. As I understand it the vintage finish is a custom blend for each rifle that is feathered in darker toward the metal to simulate the darkening of wood from oil. Same with the metal finish – he can do a "faux rust blue“ but my rifle had the older rough matte finish Ruger put on their rifles for a couple of years, the one that scratches so easily. Roger has a "secret and proprietary“ method he uses to turn that into a more durable satin looking finish like rust blue. I know what the method is but have been sworn to secrecy on pain of death.

Turn around time for this project including shipping was just at six weeks and I understand it would have been closer to one month but the guy who does his checkering had been on vacation and had to work through a backlog.


I’m no great photographer but have tried to capture the rifle as well as I can. You really have to see it up close to notice some of the finer touches such as the subtle darkening of the finish in the corners of the stock sculpturing and the sharp ridge centered on the schnabel tip that blends perfectly into the round forearm. The wood on the factory stock is pretty nice, that was a lucky find. Not XX fancy or anything but with a very nice grain. The new finish on it gives it a more natural wood color and really shows off the grain as much as possible.

However, before this gets started, a question. When you take your brand newly refinished rifle out for pictures the day after you get it, what’s the very first thing you do?


































That’s right, you put a big *&@#*#% scratch in it right on the nicest side of the wood!

But now that the crying is out of the way, on to the pics.

This is what it looked like before, a standard LH Ruger Hawkeye.




This is what it looks like now, a Ruger Hawkeye done up as a pre-war style German Sporter. This and the pic above show a good comparison of the grip and comb area before and after. That small change makes a world of difference in the overall feel of this rifle - I am really happy with the results.

Before and after pictures.

Part of the process was to lower the comb a bit and move the nose back. This is done to provide a better head position for open sights but also to give more room for the shooting hand.

Before – this is where my hand naturally falls on a factory Hawkeye when my finger is positioned properly on the trigger. The thumb is draped over the comb and it never was comfortable.






The nose was about 2 ½“ behind the tang.





After – my hand now has plenty of room. The grip was also slimmed down and then recheckered.



This also shows some of the detail where the grip was slimmed down and contoured into the stock.




The nose of the comb is now right about 3“ behind the tang. The top of the pistol grip was contoured to maintain the original curvature and transition into the comb.

Before and after pics showing the forend and butt stock. Note the different chackering pattern on the pistol grip. I don't know if the old checkering was completely erased and recut or if some was saved and more checkering blended in. Either way it fits the new slender contour very nicely.













Showing better detail of how the grip was slimmed and the transition from action to grip.


Same pic as above but this shows how the wood was removed and contoured immediately behind the bridge and again around the tang.

Not the greatest pics but i tried to show how the forend was slimmed.

I debated about having the raised panels or not. To be honest I’m not enamored of them but they are traditional for this style of rifle. Mostly I was worried that they’d stick up and always be annoying to my hand when gripping the rifle, but they are only about 1/16“ or .06“ high and not obtrusive at all. Plus, now that I look at them in person they’re growing on me and add some detail to what would be a flat surface.



This pic also shows the lightly polished bolt. The original Ruger bolts are a dull gray, we wanted to give this an "in the white“ look since several types of German rifle bolts were left unblued as well.



A good picture of the contouring around the triggerguard and floorplate. Notice the darkening on the right here, that is part of the "vintage“ finish which gives it the appearance of age. The stock was contoured around the front and back of the floorplate and they really add a nice touch of class.



A better view in sunlight.



Detail of the forend schnabel and checkering, which is 20 lpi.

More fence post pics.

Blasphemie! Schändung!

The traditionalists are spinning in their graves at the thought of this, a modern reflex sight on a pre-war sporter. But I have to say this may be what I end up with. The front sight is a fiber optic which works well on a strictly field/hunting rifle although the way the NECG sight is set up the blade can be changed out quickly to a bead or straight post. At 64 I can still use the peep sights very well – IF the barrel is long enough to get the front sight out far enough from my eyes.

But the reflex sights like this Fastfire III do not place any such restrictions on my vision, have a wide range of adjustment and there's no need to match front and rear sight heights. It looks a bit odd but it’s not terrible and it retains the advantage of light weight and doesn’t interfere with grasping the rifle around the balance point. Early 20th Century – meet early 21st Century.

And that's all. Hope you enjoyed the pics and write up.

That's waaaay cool!
Thanks!
Enjoy it and good luck with it!
Tom

Nice.

Stock weight before and after would be interesting.

Bruce

Didn't weigh the stock separately but the total weight change was 4.5 ounces lighter. All of the weight came out of the wood except for whatever that barrel stud adds back on and the difference in the recoil pads.

Interesting!

So, how is that reflex sight going to work out for hunting? Will you be able to use it beyond 150 yards or so?

I think it actually looks pretty good as it sits. It got me to thinking that maybe one day they'll offer a reflex sight of even smaller dimensions. Some of the old target aperture sights were pretty significant in size. If they could reduce a reflex sight to similar dimensions or less, they ought to be pretty practical.

Super cool project.

I've been using a Fastfire 3 on a Ruger 77 .308 shooting at a 12x12" steel plate at 200 yards and it's fine for that. The 3 MOA dot covers 6" at that range so you just put it on the middle of the gong and fire away. The limitation on range for a sight like that is really determined by two things, how far away you can see and distinguish your target and the point blank range of your cartridge, sort of. You can hold over some but it's not that great since at any range where you start to need holdover for a modern bottle neck round the dot subtends so much it blocks out a lot of the target and these sights are really at their best when you keep both eyes open and just paste the dot where you want to hit.

The whole concept here is not for a long range rifle, there are tons of those to choose from these days that are better suited. As a blurb on the Renner website noted the rifles are for the hunter who still likes to stalk a bit closer to the game. For the past few years I've been shooting quite a bit with peep sighted centerfires and even with older eyes can still bust 5-7" diameter rocks at anywhere from 150 up to 250 yards from the kneeling position with a dead on or slightly low hold so wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at a deer sized or larger animal in the clear at up to that range. I should note that only once ever in my life have I shot a big game animal at more than about 220 yards with the vast majority less than 150. Again, the only real limitation within the rifle's point blank range is how well you can see and distinguish the target.

Beeyooteefull!!! That is some fine craftsmanship. Enjoy!

I'll take it!

Seriously that's an interesting gun, I like how you thinned the grip. The Ruger's never felt right to me either there.

I like too, though I would go the Rigby route for myself. His approach on a Remington 700 is really cool

How do you like the NEGC sight?

I like it!

See, now I'm wondering how working over the comb, slimming and doing the wood panels would look on one of these?

Very nice rifle! Too bad about the scratch but stuff happens.. I think I might give him a call for my M77 Ruger RSM.. a Rigby look might be nice..

Who makes the reflex mount?
I have a 375 Ruger Alaskan I would like to put a Trijicon RMR on.

I recently saw a DG double rifle fitted with a reflex sight.

For older eyes, that may be faster than conventional irons.

Would like follow up reports.

DF

My first thought was for the Rigby as well but the more I looked at it the German style it started to appeal to me. AFAIK the grip reshaping would be the same and you’d get the same narrow forend as well. The styling of either one looks cool in pictures but the feel of the grip and forend are the real benefits.

The NECG ghost ring is a great sight for the Ruger since it mounts into the existing scope base. It is definitely set and forget, not something you want to fiddle with a lot. I haven’t had the rifle and sight long enough to prove this but supposedly you can remove it then remount it and as long as you tighten the mount screw down with the same tension – position the cross slot in the same place – it will come back to zero.

The front blade slides in from the front just like a Ruger but is held in place with a plunger on the muzzle side. NECG is real proud of their blades and hits you up for $8 shipping even for a 2/10 oz part but they are well made and tap in snugly with no looseness nor have I needed to do any filing to get them to fit.

On the RSI, you could call Roger and talk to him, he can do all kinds of things that aren’t shown specifically on his website. He could probably work up something pretty slick.

The mount shown is from Burris and made specifically for the Fastfire sights. From the Burris website it's the "410332 Ruger M77, No. 1, Super Redhawk, Super Blackhawk Hunter". I wouldn't know if anyone makes a Trijicon mount to fit, but I've seen someone makes a Ruger to Weaver style conversion base so anything that fits a Weaver style would then work,

FWIW, that rear mount doesn't work on a Ruger short action, the bridge on those is a tad shorter so the bolt hits it, but you can mount it in the front sight mount which is what I did with the M77 .308. Looks funky mounted there but it still works.

How fast is the reflex sight compared to peep and post?

Which configuration would you use on a hunt?

Your thoughts, reflex sight on a DG rifle.

DF

I made similar changes to a Ruger Hawkeye in 338 RCM which I had for a time but I think he did it better. The original stock shape was just ugly. I also kind of like the Fastfire sight. GD

I’m no dangerous game expert, not even a novice so take that into consideration. Once you get used to it the reflex sight is definitely a tad faster than a peep, which is still a pretty fast sight. With the peep of course you just look through the rear aperture and focus on the front sight but you still have to line them up. With the reflex sight that dot can be anywhere in the viewing window and as long as it’s on your target that’s where the bullet will hit so your head position is not as critical.

I grew up using peep sights since I was a kid but have to say that these lightweight dot sights are the wave of the future. I’ve done all kinds of geometric gyrations over the years getting a front sight matched up properly to the height of the rear sight so you don’t have the rear aperture hanging way up in the air, the reflex eliminates all of that. A good simple peep from NECG, XS or Skinner is still rugged as hell, this ghost ring is solid solid and those ears really protect the rear aperture, but they’re making the reflex sights pretty strong these days as well. Leupold’s Deltapoint is steel or covered with steel IIRC and soldiers have been using red dots and reflex sights in combat for quite a while now. Battery life is measured in years but they’re so cheap you can buy a new one each hunting season and pretty much guarantee it won’t quit on you.

I still like peep sights and have them on three .22’s and six centerfires from .30-30 up to this .30-06 because they still let me take a finer sight picture for longer range and smaller targets, but for general big game use or even for dangerous game I’d say the reflex sight has more advantages. Just MHO, of course.

Good commentary.

Yeah, battle tested reflex sights should hold up about anywhere.

And for older eyes, single visual plane (reflex) vs. two planes (peep and post), is a bonus.

Any sight that can hold up in Afghanistan should work OK in Zim.

DF

I'm taking a reflex equipped Win M70 375 H&H to Australia on a buff cull hunt. Should get 2-4 a day. I will report on how it works on DG.

Outstanding! What did you decide to do with your MRC?

Which reflex sight did you end up with?

Would like to hear how you chose the one you're using. There seems to be a lot of different versions, am currently trying to sort thru the herd.

DF

I like the whole idea. May get one myself.

It's still in original form,just going to shoot it as is until or if I figure out something to do with it. I'm trying to talk myself into going whole hog the other way from this Ruger and rebarreling to a .260 or something in a Winchester Fwt contour and drop it in a McMillan Featherweight stock, or keep it as a 6.5x55 but rebarrel with a much shorter throat. It's only money...

Hi Jim,

I sure like mine. I decided not to have the forestock checkered only because most of the Pre War Mausers I've seen just had the schnabel and panels w/o checkering. I also had (at Roger's suggestion) the action screws and extractor nitre blued. And I decided on a Williams foolproof. I did not weigh the rifle prior to the work, but it is now 6 3/4# and really comes up like a nice shotgun. Roger is, indeed, a pleasure to work with and my turnaround time was between 5 - 6 weeks. He got my check on a Thursday and I had the rifle Saturday.







Terry

Neat idea. One has to wonder with modern cnc machines and the incentive to sell more rifles some of the rifles makers aka Ruger, Remington, Winchester would offer a European style rifle even if thru a distributor such as Linsey's. Shouldn't really cost that much more. I would venture the costs would be the logistical costs of having a different set of catalog/ inventory numbers etc as opposed to raw material costs.

That's a gorgeous rifle, those tang safeties really clean up nice. Seriously, I prefer the blued bolt handle and extractor but the Hawkeye is what it is with an all stainless bolt. Roger called me about that very thing, a blued extractor. After looking at it he said he could probably take an extractor from a right handed tang safety and modify it to work with the left handed Hawkeye but I just wasn’t comfortable with experimenting on it so left mine as is.

This project turned out so well and he does such nice work I’m already looking around the collection for the next likely candidate. Plus having talked to him you learn that there are all kinds of little mods he can do – within reason - to create a one of a kind that reflects someone’s personal style.

How does he do the Williams? Drill and tap for 2 screws on the starboard side of the receiver I'm guessing?

I have a sweet little RJ Renner pre-war M77tang safety 7x57 with the keyed forearm and I am sending him 2 more M77's for a matching Faux Rigby set. Great guy and awesome rifles!

Another great post from a man that understands the importance of the proper ergonomics in making a rifle really just right. And a nod to a classic style that many have appreciated for many years. A tipoff the hat to you sir. E

Congratulations, Jim, that's a beautiful rifle. The scratch just adds character.

Steelhead,

You are correct. The sight has 2 screws into the action and the sight is labeled as for an "SMLE". There was enough adjustment to use the front sight as the rifle came to me. The insert was a .406" "high" (I do not know if it was the original front sight insert from Ruger as I purchased this rifle from another gentleman online). But, I didn't like having the rear sight so high off the action, so I ordered a shorter sight from Brownell's - Ruger no longer supports parts for this rifle and the folks at Brownell's worked very patiently with me to find a substitute. These mods really are nice and do justice to not having to have such "clunky" stocks on American rifles of most manufacture - maybe the Winchester featherweight as an exception.

Peeshooter,

Nice rifle! Probably my all time favorite caliber - by far! My rifle is 30/06, but I seriously considered another 77 in 7X64 Brenneke just because of the German flavor. Congrats!

Terry

Hey Jim

That's a sweet rig right there. IMO it looks much better 'customized' and I've always liked the snobel end.

Congrats

Jerry

7x64 would be hard to beat in one of these, IMO.

Damn you, Jim!

i had almost forgot about that old thread!

Great work and a beautiful rifle. Saw this thread this morning and have been thinking about it all day at work. I've gone to mostly 'utilitarian' rifles nowadays (SS and synthetic) and don't really have an 'heirloom' type rifle (though I love my No.1 RSI 757).

I do have a No.1 in 9.3 Mauser that is begging for that stalker rifle package. I'm gonna be trying to unload some of my collection I don't shoot much and I think I'll stash some cash to have that No.1 get the Jagd Stutzen treatment. I'll take off the Leupy FX2.5 and throw a Skinner on there to complete the package. Thinking I could really love that setup.

Thanks for the thread and info.

You're very welcome. That 9.3 or any classic caliber is a great match for these treatments. I keep throwing this rifle to my shoulder and it mounts and fits like almost nothing I've ever owned, and that's not hyperbole (well, not too much). However, I just found the downside to this project. Every other rife I own now feels like a club! Seriously.


Don't say I didn't warn you guys...

Is it the angle of the photo, or are a scalloped out sections on either side not symmetric?

The very forward part of the left scallop does reach the floorplate while the one on the right is about a millimeter short but lighting and position of the floorplate artificially magnify the difference. These were taken in my garage in mid-afternoon with the door open so there is a source of very bright light from one side with shadow on the other, and the floorplate has a tiny bit of left-right wiggle and is over to the leftmost here; you can see the small gap of inletting just to the right of where it narrows down, while it overhangs on the left just a tiny bit. I noticed the same thing when I looked at the picture but when I pushed the floorplate over it centered up. Due to the lighting the flat of the wood around the trigger guard and floorplate on the left is hidden while the right one is emphasized, when you look at them lit equally it is all centered.

Super awesome 👍😎

I think setting it up as a Featherweight would be the ticket, considering the fact that the current stock configuration won't allow for a Renner conversion. Perhaps another stock then off to Renner? As you said, it's only money.

Wow, very cool to see that stock work. Congrats on a beautiful rifle.

The barrel on the MRC is about a #3 contour so the rifle in factory form is a tad muzzle heavy already. Lightening a wooden stock or just dropping it in a lightweight fiberglass stock without reducing the barrel weight would really unbalance things. For now it's okay as is until I can think of something - and replenish the play money fund a bit as well.

I completely agree. I'd like to compare the profile of the MRC barrel to a M70 standard to see if there's any difference. I've tried to get Jeff Sipe to consider putting together a Featherweight, but they seem to be going the way of synthetic stocks, 24 inch barrels, and muzzle breaks. Not everyone wants a Colorado Buck clone.

Anyway, you have a great looking rifle and I hope it shoots just as well. Have you tried the ergos with a scope? My eyes are so bad that any form of iron would be an exercise in very short-range shooting.

That turned out great!! Congrats!

Very cool, thanks for sharing.

The stock is definitely optimized for iron or peep sights so your head is down low with a good cheek weld but when mounting a scope the head position is about the same as when you put one on a lever action like a Marlin. It's not terrible, you can certainly still use a scope but you just have to raise your head a bit. The reflex sight shown in the pics is about as high as you want to go and still have a good natural mounting point on the stock.

It reminds me of my Husqvarna 46 in 9.3x57. It's about the best handling rifle I own.

That's a great hunting rifle. Ones like that inspired me to do this project. You see them at gunshows or Cabela's gun library, all walnut and milled steel but trim and graceful. Being left handed they just weren't suited to me so this Ruger is the next best thing.

I've thought about having that stock duplicated but from a nice chunk of walnut. It's like swinging a shotgun.

" but I seriously considered another 77 in 7X64 Brenneke just because of the German flavor."

Terry

The minute I saw all these pics, I'm wondering which one of my rifles I should give this treatment to... Then I remembered I have a Round top Tang Safety in 7x64 Brenneke... Oh Boy! I fear this is going to cost me some $'s

Nice looking work there. My pre-war JP Sauer 35 Whelen (.30 Gov't '06 rebore) is a great rifle to shoot offhand due to its similar stock design and a 25" barrel.