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#12049797 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: centershot]  
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centershot,

The report's between a .17 HMR and .223, but to me closer to the HMR, not surprising because of the small hole and using about half as much powder as a .223.

It's also definitely more than the .17 HMR on animals. I use the .17 HMR with the A17 ammo to open festivities on prairie dog towns, because while it will reach out to 200 yards the report's mild enough not to spook every PD within sight. But after all the dogs within 200 are either shot or down their holes, I get out the .17 Hornet because it's good to 300+ yards, and doesn't just kill them like the .17 HMR but often lifts them a foot or two.

Dunno what other models it's available in but mine is a CZ American, which they still offer, and I believe CZ also chambers at least one other rifle for it as well. Mine's very accurate, and I also like the single-set trigger, which breaks at 9 ounces when set.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
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#12049924 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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Doesn't take much more than a look at muzzle velocities to see that there is quite a margin between the hornet and hmr. About 1000 fps, depending on load. Zeroed at 100 yards the hmr will drop about 8" at 200 yards where as the hornet can hit a bit over an inch at 100 and hit zero at 200 yards. The hornet is available in CZ, Ruger, Cooper, to name a few.
You can reload the hornet for way less than you can buy hmr ammo. Very economical to reload for the hornet.

I sold my hmr a few years ago. It just underwhelmed me, once I got the hornet.

#12050468 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: TRnCO]  
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TRnCO,

Well, you can handload .17 Hornets for "way less" than the .17 HMR if you use inexpensive hollow-points, but as I noted above, 20-grain HP's do not shoot nearly as flat, and drift a lot more in the wind, than 20-grain plastic tips, whether the V-Max or Tipped Varmageddon. If handloading plastic-tips in the .17 Hornet, it's hard to beat the price of HMR's. Also, the newer A17 ammo for the Savage semiauto .17 HMR usually gets around 2850-2900 fps in bolt actions. This ups the performance of the .17 HMR considerably, since it comes very close to the .17 WSM in performance.

I also live where about half the "small rodent" varmint shooting is Columbian or Richardson's ground squirrels, which are rarely shot beyond .,17 HMR range--which is why I've never even considered giving up my .17 HMR, and with the advent of A17 ammo am even happier.

But I also spend enough time handloading all sorts of other cartridges that it doesn't make sense to handload when I don't have to--and with the .17 HMR I don't have to for a BUNCH of my rodent shooting.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12050570 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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I must say I'm intrigued about these bitty .17's, but with the paucity of gophers, prairie dogs, and ground squirrels around here I don't know what I would use one on. How do they perform on gnarly tough old groundhogs? I guess I could load one down to very mild velocities and use it on edible gray squirrels along with all the other squirrel killing machines in my arsenal. Coyotes are showing up in my environs but keep mightily to themselves and/or hide out behind suburban neighbor's houses. Transient black bears?


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#12050612 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: gnoahhh]  
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gnoahhh,

Have killed enought "grarly tough old groundhogs" with various cartridges in the East (along with rockchucks in the West) to have full confidence in the .17 Hornet out to 250-300 yards.

In my CZ 527, 7.0 grains of 5744 gets around 2100 fps with 20-grain bullets, with head-shot squirrel accuracy out to 100 yards. With hollow-points (which are less explosive than plastic-tips) it works fine for small game. Essentially it's a centerfire version of the .17 Mach 2.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12050672 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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I'm sold. Now to find someone to re-barrel a 22 Hornet for me.


Yeah, I'm a rifle loony.
#12050791 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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I wasn't aware of the newer higher velocity hmr ammo. offerings.
But I just bought another 400 20 gr. v-max bullets for $14./100. I use lil'gun powder at 9.5 grs. I figure a 100 rounds if I just get 6 reloads out of a case, cost me around $20. Don't think you can buy hmr ammo. that cheap, but then again, I haven't shopped for hmr ammo for some time, so I could be all wet.

#12050813 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: TRnCO]  
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I only buy .17 HMR's on sale, because already have a bunch. Haven't paid over $11/50 for a long time, with a low of $9, so they've probably averaged around $20/100. Just saw some A17 ammo for $44/200 today on an Internet site, but passed, guessing it might go lower. It costs a little more than standard ammo, but I only used it on prairie dogs, not ground squirrels, where the regular stuff works just as well.

One of the reasons .17 HMR is reasonably cheap is popularity: Manufacturers can make big batches.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12050825 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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I finally got my CZ out to the dog town behind the house.

My friend has one as well and we did quite a good lick of business on them. We found that we really had to pay attention to which way the dust drifted after the first miss......payed better attention after the second and third miss!

Pretty pleased with the gun and cartridge. Cheap to shoot. Cheaper to reload.

No recoil and pretty quiet. Noticeably quieter than the .221's we had with us.

I dont have a .17 HMR, but my hunting partner does. And he likes the Hornet better.

#12050833 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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Oops. I am a page off!

#12050915 - 05/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: Jim_Conrad]  
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Still like the idea of a 17 fireball, but reading that they heat up much faster and use twice the powder hmmm...


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#12051383 - 05/24/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: Jim_Conrad]  
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Jim,

An older friend of mine came to Montana for his first prairie dog shoot last year, bringing his only suitable rifle, a .22-250. A lot of people unacquainted with PD shooting bring a .22-250, but like most he found it kicked too much, the barrel really heated up quickly, and he didn't get to observe the immediate results of most of his shots--partly because he's old enough that he had a hard time seeing dogs, even through binoculars, at much over 150 yards. Of course, I'd brought a bunch of other rifles, including a .17 HMR, .17 Hornet, .22 Hornet and .204 Ruger, and he shot them all as well.

He's coming again next month, and bought himself a .17 HMR, since out to as far as he can see PD's mine worked very well--and he doesn't handload. Of course, he'll also be shooting some of my other rifles again. :-)


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12053680 - 05/25/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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That sounds like a good compromise. Might as well not tote a super magnum hell blaster if you cant see that far anyway.

We found that anything past 400 hundred yards was a lucky hit if it was first round. Hell, much past 300 was lucky most of the time.

I might have had a better average if I had my 25-06 AI with me on the long ones, but the 17 Hornet was a lot of fun.

#12053738 - 05/25/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: Jim_Conrad]  
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I've hunted PD's with many superb shooters, including world-record benchresters, top military snipers, and long-range target shooters. None have been able to hit dogs more often than they miss 'em beyond about 350 unless it's close to dead calm--which is rare on the high plains!


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12053771 - 05/25/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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We actually had a lot of fun trying to figure out the wind.

We were shooting off a card table from bipods.....not very steady to begin with. Shooting north, up a slope with what appeared to be a steady north north east wind.

Often three consecutive shots with three different wind holds produced three different dust clouds. We had the best luck just holding a bit high for the first round and making wind adjustments with the next round.


No vegetation to watch sway in the breeze for a make shift wind flag!

#12054816 - 05/26/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: Jim_Conrad]  
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I'm familiar with that "wind condition!"


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12099512 - 06/19/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Any comments on how the 17 WSM compares to the 17 HMR with A-17 ammo or the 17 Hornet? I asked in the rimfire forum with out much input. I just returned from an Eastern MT prairie dog shoot and was very impressed with the 17 WSM compared to the 17 Hornet and the 17 HMR with regular ammo.

#12099880 - 06/19/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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The .17 WSM I owned for a while had a 22" barrel, and all the 20-grain factory ammo tried got around 2950 fps. My CZ .17 HMR also has a 22" barrel and, depending on the batch of A17 ammo and the temperature, velocities run from around 2825-2900 fps.

My .17 WSM was jackrabbit/coyote accurate but not consistently prairie dog accurate, so I didn't shoot it all that much on PD's. From what I did see, there wasn't all that much difference between the A17 HMR ammo and the .17 WSM. At least not enough for me to keep that particular .17 WSM.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12106390 - 06/22/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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John, if you were going to build a 17 Hornet, would you use a heavier contour than your current CZ? I believe you said .75" at the muzzle. Also, mine will be threaded for a rimfire suppressor.


Yeah, I'm a rifle loony.
#12107936 - 06/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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Don't think I would want it any heavier. It's pretty thick barrel for such a tiny hole, and the rifle weighs 8 pounds 10 ounces with scope, balancing pretty perfectly for me.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12107949 - 06/23/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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That's the information I needed to hear. Many thanks.


Yeah, I'm a rifle loony.
#12112377 - 06/26/17 Re: 17 Hornet vs 17 Ackley Hornet [Re: OSU_Sig]  
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I ran a 17 Ackley Hornet for several years in a 77/22 Hornet rifle. It was an accurate rifle, but the gunsmith botched the chamber on me and brass didn't last but about four firings due to a "bulge". I never had to trim it though. The rotary magazine didn't feed all that well with the case shape. It was cheaper to shoot than HMR and more accurate. I managed several kills on p'dogs in the 300-400 yard range and numerous varmints around the farm. Unfortunately, like an idiot, I traded it off for a custom 1911. I wish I still had that gun.

I think all the time I'll run into a good used .22 hornet in a CZ or another Ruger and rebuild it. We'll see. I miss that round. I was smart enough to save my forming dies and reloading dies. I've also got about 600 pieces of brass for it that are 1x fired with a forming load.

Either round will suit and enjoy the new rifle!

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