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JTP posted the following above.

"There may be more accurate chronographs than the Magnetospeed. But especially in the wind we have around here I will NEVER go back to a chrono with skyscreens again. They are such a PITA. Tricky setup, missed shots, wind blowing the screens over, lots of gear."


JT - I have an Oehler 33, I have never had ANY of the problems you listed.

1 thing, I mounted my skyscreens PERMANENTLY in a 2X4 at exactly 5' c-c. I then put that 2x4 on a trash can, box or table. I have had so few missed shots as to say NONE.

edit to add:
<This is my 2nd board - 2x6, the skyscreen 3 were too big for the 2x4 w/o weakening it too much.>

Photo for demo purposes only.
[Linked Image]

The 33 is no longer produced but IF I could ,I get another when I need it.

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 06/23/17.

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Originally Posted by montanabadger
I won't work up loads without one anymore. There has been a few times lately that maximum book velocity came before maximum book load.


This is a key point. Short of having a strain gauge, the single best thing you can do to insure your loads are within max pressure is to
a) only use load data that includes pressure (for common bottleneck cartridges and powders this can be from Quick Load)
and
b) load to the listed velocity, not the listed charge weight

The relationship between pressure, velocity and energy is fairly simple (energy is the integral of the pressure curve * bullet cross section taken over the barrel length). Velocity is by far the easiest of the three to measure directly with modern equipment. The relationship between those 3 and charge weight is quite variable and heavily influenced by factors like chamber dimensions, primer brisance and powder lot variations that most reloaders have no visibility into.

Last edited by Llama_Bob; 06/22/17.
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I think you want bullet cross sectional area rather than diameter.

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jwall,

I am sure the Oehler 33 is a much better unit than anything with screens I have ever had. I have had 2 Chronys and a Pact and that probably accounts for the missed shots I was getting. The Pact, especially, was horrible about it.

To me it was always so much of a PITA getting the rifle set up, the screens the right height and angle, and everything lined up with the target. Look through the rifle, go move screens. Look through the rifle, go move screens. It would take me 10 minutes just to get everything out and set up just right, then pull it all back down again when I was done. Maybe it was because the Pact was so bad about missing shots and having to have everything lined up just perfect that soured me on it, IDK. For an extended session when I had plenty of time it wasn't as much of a big deal. But I do a lot of my testing during lunch break at work where my time is pretty limited. It takes me about a minute or so to strap the Magnetospeed on, and I never miss any shots with it. It is just a really fast, hassel-free deal for me that way. I can carry the entire setup in one hand.

Plus I can just carry the Magnetospeed in my pack, and if I am out shooting some LR steel or something and need to check some velocities real quick it just takes a minute or two to do that as well.

Different strokes for different folks.

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Originally Posted by mathman
I think you want bullet cross sectional area rather than diameter.

Yes, my mistake. I fixed it. Good thing we have a mathman around to check that sort of thing grin

I likewise find the magnetospeed to be great. The very first thing I do with any new load after running it in Quick Load is make a ladder of 2-3 rounds per charge weight up a couple steps past max, and run it up until I hit max velocity without worrying about accuracy. Then I measure the fired cases capacity and take that and the velocity data back to make sure Quick Load is calibrated right.

Last edited by Llama_Bob; 06/22/17.
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Well, I got by without one for probably 25 years of reloading...got one now and it's fun to know how fast my bullets are going, but I don't need one. I'm just not that scientific about it. I don't shoot anything past about 400 yards and I don't calculate drop and such, I shoot at distances and see what it is.


Mathew 22: 37-39



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Originally Posted by bangeye
k22 just to ask are they anymore accurate and do you note much difference when shooting deer and elk?



I was able to get an accurate, fast load, but I did not notice any better kills at 2,700fps vs 2,550fps. I used Barnes 180gr X and XLC's.

Some time ago, I switched to 168gr TSX at almost 2,900fps in the 30-06, and it kills well also.

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JTP -

Yes there are different things appropriate for our situations. Yours works for you and that's good.

I OTOH don't need the quick, easy set up that you do. Glad it works for you.

If it ain't broke......


Jerry


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Originally Posted by k22hornet

I was able to get an accurate, fast load, but I did not notice any better kills at 2,700fps vs 2,550fps. I used Barnes 180gr X and XLC's.

Some time ago, I switched to 168gr TSX at almost 2,900fps in the 30-06, and it kills well also.


IMO it's not 'better killing', higher speed makes hits at longer range easier. F T, if you get my drift.
That's not important in short range hunting.

Jerry


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It is amazing how the 'net has allowed minutia to matter. I guess it does allow a gun rag article.


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Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by k22hornet

I was able to get an accurate, fast load, but I did not notice any better kills at 2,700fps vs 2,550fps. I used Barnes 180gr X and XLC's.

Some time ago, I switched to 168gr TSX at almost 2,900fps in the 30-06, and it kills well also.


IMO it's not 'better killing', higher speed makes hits at longer range easier. F T, if you get my drift.
That's not important in short range hunting.

Jerry





Judging bullet performance on 2-3 shots per year at big game animals is sketchy, sometimes the bullet works great and other times, not so much.

I hunt coyotes extensively, so I get to see 'on-game' bullet performance numerous times in a day. Regarding bullet speed and killing animals, I will say that the same bullet, say a 55gr Btip, shot out of my 222RemMag at 3,400+fps, vs shot out of my son's 223WSSM at 3,800+fps, kills 'better' at the higher velocity, at any range.

Most of the time, when shot from my 222remmag, coyotes get stiff and tip over perhaps with a tail flag, with the 223WSSM, they just go down without any other movement.

So, does a faster kill equate to a 'better' kill?

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k22h


Direct to you last ?, IMO the faster kill is a better kill.


I've been on the run today so I'll be brief right now.

IMO it's the bullet's terminal performance. From coyotes, which I've shot some and W T deer, AND other posters here,

Speed not only makes the bullets hit harder----but open up faster. I understand the monos operate differently but even they produce quick kills at HI speed. There's more involved than this, such as larger dia. bullets even at moderate speed seem to KNOCK game off their feet.

I'm out of time now, maybe others will chime in on the different facets.

Jerry


Last edited by jwall; 06/23/17.

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Chronographs are not necessary.

Just like scales are not necessary.

Very effective hunting loads can be assembled with simple tools, including a volumetric (think scoop) powder measure.

Most of us want to be more precision but, really, within a couple of hundred yards, a Lee Loader will do everything a deer hunter needs. That's right, NEEDS, perhaps not WANTS.

Heck, there are some loads you can simply "fill to the top and seat the bullet".

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Yeah Buford, there's nothing like loading like its 1960.

A decent chrono can be had NOW for +/- $100.00 crazy
sick


Jerry


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Originally Posted by BufordBoone

Very effective hunting loads can be assembled with simple tools......

..........within a couple of hundred yards, a Lee Loader will do everything a deer hunter needs.


True but not everyone who shoots.....is a deer hunter who limits his shots to a couple hundred yards.



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fwiw,
I do... Or rather I have in years past, however, my Oehler 35P was such an onerous PITA to setup that it never got used. In short I just sold it for about half of what it was worth and I am going to wait to see if LabRadar or the Canadian kid who came up with the www.autotrickler.com has also come up with a super simple two box chronograph. That said, at this point, I am definitely from Missouri, and they are going to have to show me which, why, and how... Magnetto does not tolerate suppressor heat all that well though you have to love the portability component. Hoping they will come out with a LabRadar V.2 that addresses .22 caliber and smaller projectiles...

Same Canadian has come up with a Chrono that is supposed to be super accurate. It can't get much simpler short of wet ground...
http://www.autotrickler.com/twoboxchrono.html

Regards, Matt.


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I have never fired a bullet down range in decades unless over an Oehler 35P at the same time.
Actually went to the range last week and discovered I left the Oehler box at home, so turned around and called it quits.
I usually leave it in the Ram Box but changed cars with the wife. Bad move.


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The ad companies thank you. laugh

---

[Linked Image]

Chronographs are a nice to have option. Like using a scope mounted rifle is an option. Like using a bipod, or an expensive rifle rest is an option. Like having a spotting scope is an option. Like taking lunch to the range is an option. Like using copper or bonded bullets is an option.

All these things are called "optional". That means you don't need them to go to the range. I'm genuinely surprised some of you have not suggested that an Internet connection is required, so you can show friends or relatives what you're doing. Tweet or Facebook friends from the firing line. Or perhaps you're old school and just video your shoots for broadcast later. Maybe use your cellphone.

Put another way, going to the range does not mean that you have to carry spotting scopes, rifle scopes, chronographs, monotonous bullets, bipods or food. They might be nice to have, but are not necessities. You don't even need a firearm when going to the range. You may be an interested spectator, judge or range officer.

The only absolute at a range is eye and ear protection - unless you're completely deaf or blind, or wish to be.



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New powders like RL 26, RL 17 do not show traditional pressure signs till you are way over, chronographs keep me in the safe zone. Found mistakes before I caused any damage to me or others will continue using them.

RL 26 was introduced before it had much reloading info. on it going without a chrono. you are asking for trouble. IMHO

Last edited by kk alaska; 06/26/17.

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And what are you using as a source for your powder information? I hope you are using a reference and not just pouring powder into a case until it shows signs of high pressure.


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