Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game To shoot or not to shoot, what say you?

What percentile of confidence of making a shot to the vitalsdo you consider necessary before taking a given opportunity to shoot at a game animal? Stated another way on any given shot do you have to feel I can make that shot 98 times out of 100, 95 times out of 100 ,75 times out of 100 etc. before you will attempt or pass on a shot at game.

I don't put numbers on it. I just have a gut feeling, and it's pretty conservative.


Okie John

Basically 100%. I guess there could be some freak occurrence like a mis-charged cartridge or freak 30mph gust of wind out of nowhere or the animal mysteriously bolting at top speed right when I shoot or whatever. But if there's a chance I miss due to hold instability or inability to read the wind, I don't shoot.

I don't shoot unless I'm certain of the shot. I'm truly amazed when I miss. We owe it to our game to provide a quick, painless death if all possible.

This and this.......



While it is true that I have not shot/kilt a 'lot'............

To date/knock on wood, I have yet to miss with a center-fire rifle....................

Back in November of '83 I thought I had missed, I was stunned, it was a 14yd shot, astonished at the way he hopped the fence and ran..... but he was there, about 50 yds away, piled up just out of sight.

Yes I realized when I asked the question i really didn't know if I could really put a number on it , but I didn't know how else to quantify it. I can't really say 100% though I'd like to. I realize there is always some risk of pulling the shot , the target moving, hitting an unseen branch other wise no one would ever miss. But still like you I'm pretty conservative.

That's where I am. Last year I missed a good buck, he was standing statue still broadside less than 150 yds. Totted off unalarmed. I looked for sign for 2 hours --- nothing, nada, zip, zilch....still stunned (me).

Why ? you ask, "overconfident". The last few have been spread out over several years but EVERY one was from over confidence.

Jerry

Some years ago I passed on a shot at a really nice mulie buck. He was at about 200-250 but there was a fierce cross wind, gusts maybe up to 30. The only rest I had was a bush that was moving as fast as the wind. I had a 270 with 150 gr bullets but there was no way I could hold it steady. He was sure pretty to look at, though.

I can't put numbers on it in the field when I'm actually hunting. All I can say is, if I don't have confidence I can make the shot I don't take it.




So it stands to reason that you've never missed a shot then?

I missed three times last year. Twice on hogs at 120 yds in the last 12 months of so, out of say 60 shot. One I'd knocked the scope off and it was shooting about 4" high. The other I just plain missed. Had a good rest and a good squeeze. Went back and checked and the rifle was dead on. Amazing!


The buck I missed was down hill at 175' yds. in a small clearing. Fog blowing in and out. The scope was a Swarovski 4-12 with the BRH reticle. As an aside, that reticle is too busy to use in blowing fog and you're trying to make out the critter. Damn frustrating when you can see the buck in your binocs, and then look thru your scope and he's not there. Watched this guy on an off for about an hour before the fog lifted just enough to take a shot. I could have sworn I heard a "whap". Bummer, I prefer a "whop". Got down to where I suspected the point of impact to be. Found about a dozen cut white hairs. Looked for over an hour and nothing. After three misses, I was beginning to think I'd lost my "mojo".

Ya!

GWB

I don't shoot at the distances you folks are used to. Ohio has been a shotgun state for a long time, and only a rifle state for a few years, so I'm used to 100-150yard shots with a gun, and no more than 45-50yards with bow or crossbow.
I've missed scoped shots with a sabot shotgun, but haven't missed since going back to iron sights.

On big game, only one time. I took a shot at a feral pig that was about 550y away across a canyon. It was moving fast, so I ranged it with my reticle and did so badly and held for 375y. Missed low down by its feet. Didn't get a 2nd shot. A good lesson.

On predators, small game and birds, different story.

Question fer you guys,

if ya get several twofers (two with one shot) does that make up for the misses?










JAPPFT,



GWB

Naw, That's just show off stunt shooting. Cool story material though I've never managed that with a rifle but have pulled it off a couple of times with a shotgun. So what's the skinny on that nice full stock rig .

I don't shoot unless I KNOW I"m good, I like to use the figure 200% sure.

But I never know if I'm going to shoot, I never know when exactly the shot will break in the process and a few times animals have walked off before the gun went off... no biggy though, I'd rather them walk than me muff a shot.

Last 2 times I missed was around 350 yards, and later I found that the scope had died and was not moving off of its 100 yard zero....

Beyond that I actually have a hard time recalling a miss. Back up to the teen years.... yeah, back then I missed a few times. But my mentor was such that I actually was trying to aim at a single hair and as such shots took time to develop and even back then it was rare for me to miss.

All that said, one of the first shots, if not THE first shot I had at a deer, was, no chit, about 2-3 feet from the muzzle and dad whispered point at its head and pull... I"m pretty sure I just pointed, closed my eyes and yanked... I did not hit the deer... there were 3 of us surprised as heck that cold morning... The next one I had my own rifle and it got better from then on out..

Something I do and taught my kids to do; when I have a killing shot I take it. When I don't have a killing shot, I pass.

I gots a few of those, I generally try to avoid those on deer.... but my wife walked away one night, while I was messing around with some pigs, trying to get a 2fer head shot... it took a LONG time, but it finally worked. I have missed the 2nd head a few times too. 2 fer in the ribs, generally isn't to hard. But timing has to be good, never known a feral pig to be slow about moving. 2 fer with arrows means I have to be on the ground to start with and then both lucky and good.

I like Sakos, I've had the good fortune to score two of the Sako Bavarian Carbines. That one is chambered in 30-06 Springfield.




This one is chambered in the 308 Winchester. Not a two-fer, but two in the same evening.

JAPPFT,


GWB

I've had confidence on deer with shots past 350, and no confidence on elk at 50-60 yards. Every situation is different.

I'll allow for shooting at moving animals, but a miss there is easy to play off. The miss that comes at a still animal well within range is a real shock though. I've missed easy shots a couple of times and just sat there shocked and confused as to how that just happened.

^^^THIS^^^

I hate wounding animals. It's a PITA too when you have to track them and mess around for hours. Then when you do find them, dead or alive, the meat will taste like schit.

I would much rather let an animal go on, than take a ?? shot.
I also don't care for tracking wounded game. I also hate missing, like everyone else.
Never really thought about the # thing before. I know it's a shot or not, game on or not.

You all have a great day.
Going to be another hot one today, maybe 110-111'F. Were on a run here, with the # of days over a 100'. It will end up about 10 -12 days over 100' That's hot! I know some live where this would be like a drop in the ole bucket.
R.

Of course he hasn't. He's the only member of the 'Fire that might just be as awesome as 'Stick!

Originally posted by GW:

"Question fer you guys,

if ya get several twofers (two with one shot) does that make up for the misses?"



Ya, it counts on piglets, gophers & such. Congrats !

More than once I've passed on 2fer1 on deer. Sometimes it's been doe & fawn, some doe & doe. So far I haven't had a buck & doe line up for me, but I'd probably NOT pass on that. We can take 6 Doe or 4 Doe & 2 bucks- in my zone - so it would be legal .

Jerry

LOL, I don't want to clean 2 deer at the same time if I can avoid it. LOL

I've done that ENUFF that I don't want to now. None were 2fer1.

Jerry

we got 10 in 2 days last trip









It is fun nailing football size porkers on the move at 120 yds.

but the downside!

I got plum tired just pinching fleas and pulling of ticks off me, not to mention the skinning. And it got warm to boot! By time I was done I was sweating like a politician telling the truth!

ya!


GWB

I'm calling Bullsh** GW!!!

Ain't no such thing.

GW

I'm NOT asking to come hunt w/you but...

I'd be glad to help you reduce those vermin, FREE OF CHARGE, be your driver, gun bearer, game DRAGGER,
and keep you supplied w/your beverage of choice.

Ole Friend Ole Buddy Ole Pal


Jerry

PM your way!

BTW, you owe me a keyboard as I spit Carlo Rossi Pisano all over it as I read your post. LOL

ya!

GWB











ya!


GWB

PS: My dear old mom was born in Smackover Arkansas some 91 years ago this fall. She is still with us and luvs to chomp on pork loins and ribs from the hoglets I shoot! About once a month she asks "when are you gonna make me some more bucksticks and jerky?

I use the gut feeling to determine shoot don't shoot also.
If my gut feeling is not 100% I wait for another day

Yep something inside can tell person its right to take the shot or not.
A person can at times over analyse a situation looking for the green or red light.

I've had guides and hunting partners try to talk me out of some shots, but went ahead
and nailed them anyway with confidence, but have embarrassed myself at times also.

"Fools are always sure of themselves , whereas wise men tend to doubt" -B.R.

Send me a bill ! It's worth it to spread a little "laughter is the best medicine".


Always enjoy your posts and others like J G R of game, varmints, etc. I like seeing that some are doing not just talking ! !

Later

Jerry

Be careful, I believe he's a top, which might work for you, who knows.

There is no set % for me. I practice out to 600 but my longest ever was 487 on elk. Have passed on shots from spitting distance on out.

If I'm comfortable I take the shot. Lots of reasons for passing but if I don't think I can make the shot I work for a better opportunity.

It is pretty rare that I take a shot without being 100% "sure" that I will hit...but things can and do happen. I have missed a fair number of times, and I usually am pretty shocked that I did so. This is pertaining to big game...I will take poorer shots on coyotes, fox, badgers, etc. and absolutely will not apologize for it. I will sometimes take a less than perfect shot on birds but I do pass on a lot of them due poor presentations given...however occasionally I am a bit surprised when I do hit on a wild shot. If I wing a bird, I have a dog that is pretty damn good at finding runners so I don't feel it is "bad" to take less than optimal shots on birds.

Big game is a different matter, for several reasons. Right or wrong, ethical or not, it is how I do things.

I will NEVER take a shot at anything other than a bird, that I have the slightest doubt about. I too, have several jam up retrievers that live to find a bird. I would not shoot a the smallest of God's creatures, if I was not very certain that I was going to recover the animal. I consider it, my responsibility to wild things.

S & A

I think most of us try to do our best but. ...

STUFF happens.


Jerry

Yes it does. That's why I get a chuckle at the "100%" answer to this question.

Shooting turtles and snakes in a pond. A blast.

Taking a quiver rabbit and setting out with my Foxpro Fx3 and letting loose with a wounded rabbit distress call, get under cover with a small caliber rifle and a shotgun and pot shoot crows near and far.

Or in the fall around September when the pecans are still green, sit in a well house or in your car under the branches and pot shoot crows. Hit em' with a 25 gr. V-Max out of a 17 Mach iv doing 3,600 fps + at a distance of 30' or less and watch em' explode.

Attempt to point shoot water beatles/minnows in a ditch, or dragon flies on the wing, or roaches or dirt dobbers crawling up a wall, or wasp nests, all with a Daisy pump.

Cow birds in rice fields.

Bats and bull-bats just before dark with a shotgun.


Wonder if i will ever grow up.

I guess I'm just a sybarite/barbarian.

ya!


GWB

PS: I kill critters, harvest crops!

That captures it.

My dad was a superb shot and his philosophy, passed on to me, was to “put it on him” and shoot. If it is not “on him” then why would you shoot? Don't bother. Hope shots are a different category, for a different category of hunter. If anyone doesn't know what I mean by “put it on him” then shoot till you do. A rifleman should know when he is on target and when he isn't. Practice and shoot till you know.

Once in awhile something unexpected happens, such as hitting an unseen twig. I don't miss much, and it is an obsession with me after the shooting to figure out why a miss happened. Once I know why I missed what looked like a good sight picture, then I am OK and know what to do to avoid such a miss. There are only two shots on game in my recall that are total mysteries as to why the bullet missed (if it did). No shots are 100% with mechanical devices operating outdoors, but civilian rifle shots on game should be pretty close.

I don't take time to think about percentages, if I can get the cross hairs positioned I'll quickly squeeze the trigger. This is the moment where practicing off hand can help. When shooting game, I try to always shoot from a rest, but practice without a rest really helps getting the shot off when you can get on them.

Otherwise, I try not to shoot and disturb the woods and risk a time wasting search.

I love you.

(in a very heterosexual way, you creating).

I have people all the time ask me if I want to kill everything.

My answer generally is "yes!"

This is where I'm at. Very simple.

I might take an iffy shot on a yote or chuck (don't like to waste ammo, but if it's longer than I thought or moving..........there is something to power level and animal size, does allow for a bit of slop).

Deer? Either have the shot (even if tough) or I don't.

Spend a lot of time with my gear so my shot selection not as conservative as my hunting buddy

Even so, I'll pass on a pretty easy shot if I don't feel it.
Skill level is there, so it's just a matter of mindset.

Gun/scope "fit" is a biggie with me. Have had a lot of people tell me I don't need to be so picky. They miss often.

100% hit or I wont fire, I'll not gamble my lack of talent at the expense of crippling an animal.

Missed a buck back in 2010. Maybe hit a twig. Dunno. Got him later w a thread the needle shot w Python, facing away (bullet split spine and stopped in his nose).
Still PO'd that the first didn't kill him.
Shoulda been dead right there, instead of dead over there.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Dang, another reason for me to develop complete proficiency with my longbow Hook.

i am very pickey about shots mite not be the word for it. if i donot have that 100% gut feeling about it i cant pull the trigger my uncle who steped in when my dad died when i was 10 was a ww2 marine was very good at teaching marksmanship to shoot or not shoot . in 43 years i lost 1 deer shot with a muzzeloader cuzz of bad scope did not no at the time broke front leg down low . next was a 125 130 ? lb hog in shoulder with my nephewes 3o,06 with a 150 gr blistict tit that blew up on contact . lhis year i missed my first deer .shot at him ta 95 yards with my 444m he run off no blood next day shot rifel was 8in off at 50 yards trust your gut

G500,

Even a perfect shot can hit off the mark due to critter movement during arrow flight.
Some folks try to reduce the risk by keeping distances pretty short.

Longbows are pretty quiet, but slower.

True, I'm very pleased my longbow is so quite, that's gotta help, getting to full draw without alerting an animal will tell the rest of the tale.

There is a mindset behind consistent accurate shooting, and it is a subtle but quantum difference from “trying” to hit something. I crossed that line when I was 15 years old. Before that I strained and tried my best to hit game, and did hit it usually. I don't know how to describe it but before the beginning of deer season my 15th year I changed from “shooting at animals and trying to hit them” to a calm but quick “put the sights on it and shoot it”. As Yoda says, there is no “try”. Nothing changed in my understanding of sight picture, just a difference in execution from try to do. Words are inadequate.

People arrive at this transition from “try to hit” to “shoot it” at different ages. One of my grandsons was there by age 13. I suspect that some middle aged folks never have gotten there.

This mindset is backdrop to the replies to this thread, and contributes to the gut feeling of when to pull the trigger several have mentioned. Those who know what I'm talking about know when they are going to hit an animal and otherwise they don't shoot.

Yup, if it don't click in my head, neither does my safety.

I had an old life insurance mentor. He had a saying,

"when you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces fear"

In any sports eneavor, skiing or surfing in which I was involved, the guys that got hurt or didn't make it were the ones that were cautious or held back. I find that if I have good equipment and put in sufficient time behind the trigger, and pretty much know within an inch or so where my POI will be, killing stuff is not much of a problem. On any given year I shoot several deer, fox, coyote, turkey and 50 to 60 hogs. Ninety-nine perecent of my shots are 200 yds. and under.

Due to the nature of the terrain and density of the brush where the chances of recovering an animal (unless he is DRT) goes up exponentially as the range increases past 200 yds.



175 yds.




here is a 3 picture sequence, lasered @ +/-270 yds. 338 RUM, 200 gr. Ballistic silvertips @3,150 MV, 200 yd. zero. Luepold 4.5-14 VX-III, B & C reticle. Hold half way down between cross-hairs and first subtension.









If you have a decent rest, a good hold, a good squeeze and a decent trigger, and you know you know, and you know you know, confidence replaces fear!




300 yds.+, Sako 7mag.

I do my part and it works everytime its tried.

Except when it don't!!!!!

ya!


GWB

Yep GW

It does work,.......... EXCEPT when it don't!

Jerry

I'm certainly not a fan of taking "hope" shots of any sort. Whether I shoot or not I depends a lot on the situation for me. I almost never shoot at an animal more than 300 yards away, half that distance if it is moving. A big / tough animal like an elk or bear at the edge of cover with no chance for a follow up shot, or if using a single shot rile, I'd need to be pretty close to 100% sure before I will squeeze off the shot. A more fragile animal that is running in the open with plenty of time to shoot again, and if carrying a repeater, I'd shoot if around 70% sure of the first shot. Because if I miss or wound with that shot, I'm almost sure to make good with the second or (very rarely) third shot. An animal running in the open at under 150 yards or so is pretty much a sure thing for me, just not always with the first shot. I grew up hunting deer by "pushing bush" with family and friends and if you didn't take running shots you didn't shoot anything. We also live in open country and often have tracking snow. All factors in the decision, which boils down to whether it "feels right" at the time.

bangeye,

A couple years ago it took me eleven minutes to get comfortable with my shooting position before I took the shot. I guess than puts me in the 100% category without thinking about it on purpose.

When the hairs look right. 1/1

But chit happens sometimes - and has.

I have an instance that I refer to as "the best shot I never made". I think I might be prouder of that one than the best one that iIhave.

I'm frankly shocked at the amount of people that either say or suggest they wont shoot unless they are 100% sure of hitting where they're aiming. I'm a hunter. As such I hunt FOR game. That involves an across the board approach. Not just sit in a box blind and wait for something to walk out while I check the yardage and settle in on a good rest. I'd have to say I've killed almost as many running deer in woods or fields, as I have deer that were standing or walking. On a running deer especially in the woods, it's a 50/50 chance at best. You process information, field of view, shot opportunity now, or wait, as quickly as possible and let the front end of a running deer come into the cross hairs of an opening you've quickly picked out up ahead, and if it's all coming together you shoot as quickly as your brain can tell your finger to pull. You usually know at the shot whether that should be a dead deer or not, but you never know for sure until you walk up and look for blood.

I've missed running deer I'd like to have the shot back because I felt if I had 2 more chances I could kill that deer both times, I screwed up by rushing the shot, etc. And I've killed deer that I felt if I had 5 more chances I might not ever be able to connect again on any of them it was that difficult or quick, especially in the woods. My biggest buck to date and my 3rd biggest buck were both killed running full bore. 1 in a field, 1 in the woods. I'm not bragging or suggesting I'm a crack shot, I'm not. There are people way better than me. I'm a hunter that takes every realistic opportunity he can get to put meat in the freezer, and as such sometimes I fail miserably. But overall I've done a pretty good job at it over the yrs.I will not ever take an intentional gut or hindquarter shot, but I will try my best to get one into the boiler room on a very difficult shot that is no where near 100% likely hood of connecting.

Climate, geography and local custom contribute to the practicality of stand hunting in my locale.



The side of a cliff overlooking a dry streambed works






I use tripods/quadpods much more than box blinds.


I do occasionally do a spot and stalk.




Nailed these two with my Browning Micro Medallion in 7mm-08. On this occasion, I thought I'd check my game cameras and maybe pop a couple of hogs in the evening. First stop I scared off a big boar and didn't get a shot. Second stop heard the pigs but didn't see anything. Third feeder is on a highline right of way. I can see the feeder from the road about a half mile away. Looked through my binocs and spied a hog so big that I thought it was a cow at first. Drove to within 500 yds or so and decided to put a stalk on. Got to within 75 yards of the big one when one of these little porkers started walking straight towards me. I knew if I didn't put him down first I'd be busted. Dropped the first one and the others scattered. Didn't get the big one but dropped the first piggies' twin on the run with second shot. First, kneeling about 50 yds. Second around 30 yds. or less.

ya!


GWB

Not a thing in the world wrong with that at all. Do plenty of stand hunting myself. My point is just that I've taken a lot of shots and killed a lot of deer stand hunting or not, where I just done the best I could with the opportunity I had, and hoped for the best but knew in advance it was gonna take some doing for the bullet to reach it's mark. These hunting shows today drive me nuts. Not only does it create a false narrative about the opportunity at game for the average person, it is also unrealistic in its very nature if the average person wants to put game in the freezer. EVERYTHING has to be just perfect. Well that's not the way life or hunting in general works. I would've had a lot of dry yrs some yrs waiting on shots anywhere close to what those TV personalities wait on.