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Yikes - 2.14 miles!

From the AP newsarticle:

A Canadian sniper has beat the record for the longest confirmed kill in military history by picking off an ISIS fighter from a staggering 11,319 feet. The bullet was fired from a McMillan TAC-50 rifle set on a high-rise tower and took 10 seconds to travel the 2.14 miles towards the fighter, who was attacking Iraqi soldiers. This smashed the last record set by a Briton Craig Harrison, who killed a Taliban soldier with a 338 Lapua Magnum rifle at a range of 8,120 feet(1.54 miles) in 2009. A military source told The Globe and Mail the kill was verified by video,

OMG!
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WOW!!


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Thats impressive.


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I couldn't SEE that far.

Even with optics.


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His code name is Large Log and he has a lot of guns with a lot of MILs on the windshield.

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Rockinbar: I agree!
Amazing new technology must have been in use - from the bullet used to the optics and intel.
Also the 10 seconds of flight time for that bullet just astounds me!
Makes me glad I am not an isis type idiot.
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Wow! incredible.


I'll bet he is not a friend of Justin's.


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That is simply mind boggling when you consider every single factor that had to go right in order to make that shot


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Originally Posted by Rooster7
That is simply mind boggling when you consider every single factor that had to go right in order to make that shot

which makes it a lucky shot. Plain and simple. But it was a damn educated lucky shot at that.


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God bless our snipers

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That brought a smile to my face!!


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Ten seconds?? No. That would mean the bullet was only traveling 1,000 fps the whole time. Flight time was likely more like 4-6 seconds????

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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Rooster7
That is simply mind boggling when you consider every single factor that had to go right in order to make that shot

which makes it a lucky shot. Plain and simple. But it was a damn educated lucky shot at that.


There was a sniper who shot a very long ways to kill a guy on a machine gun. A new guy stepped up. Took him out with the next shot and shot the machine gun with the next shot. Maybe someone here knows the yardage. Your statement reminds me of a fighter getting knocked out by a lucky punch. No such thing. They worked for it and earned it.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I couldn't SEE that far.

Even with optics.

That's why I was wondering how high that tower was. He must have a helluva good scope. Although I can see a boat that far on open water with optics, or without optics if it's big enough. Looking at 2.14 miles of open space blows my mind trying to think about shooting that far. Gotta wonder what that gun is zeroed at.. IIRC on open water, unless you're elevated,, the freakin horizon is 2.9 miles away and this guy was shooting 2.14 miles.......... Simply amazing

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Amazing what can be done with a 6x Mil Quad and some practice.

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Originally Posted by rost495
...which makes it a lucky shot. Plain and simple. But it was a damn educated lucky shot at that.

Most of the time, the better & more complete the planning and harder one works to achieve, the luckier one gets.


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Sure it wasn't a 6.5 Creedmoor?


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Originally Posted by 22250rem
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I couldn't SEE that far.

Even with optics.

That's why I was wondering how high that tower was. He must have a helluva good scope. Although I can see a boat that far on open water with optics, or without optics if it's big enough. Looking at 2.14 miles of open space blows my mind trying to think about shooting that far. Gotta wonder what that gun is zeroed at.. IIRC on open water, unless you're elevated,, the freakin horizon is 2.9 miles away and this guy was shooting 2.14 miles.......... Simply amazing


For an observer on the ground with eye level at h = 5 ft 7 in (1.70 m), the horizon is at a distance of 2.9 miles (4.7 km). For an observer standing on a hill or tower 100 feet (30 m) in height, the horizon is at a distance of 12.2 miles (19.6 km).


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One hel l of a shot. Glad it was our side.

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fburtgx: I don't know myself - I was NOT there and have never owned a 50 caliber BMG type Rifle.
I wonder if the bullet started out at say 2,000 F.P.S. and probably slowed down a LOT maybe averaging 1,132 F.P.S. over that 11,319 feet.
Thus that is how whoever wrote the story came up with that 10 second figure.
The VERY informative link that "AJ300MAG" linked to above shows a chart that alludes to the bullet getting there (travelling the 11,319 feet!) in just under 10 seconds.
I guess we could figure out the exact time if we knew the Ballistic Coefficient, weight and muzzle velocity off that 50 BMG round?
I will check into this a bit.
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Fburtgx: I just got back from the Hornady site and they show a muzzle velocity for their 750 grain A-MAX bullet from a 50 BMG cartridge as 2,815 F.P.S. - that bullet had a muzzle energy by the way of 13,196 foot/pounds (ouch!)!!!
Then I checked their trajectory chart and that bullet at that speed when sighted in dead on at 200 yards dropped 35 inches out at 500 yards (or 1,500 feet).
I can't even imagine how much drop a 50 BMG projectile would have out at 11,319 feet (or 3,773 yards!)!
Debunking your "4 second" flight time though, the Hornady projectile would HAVE TO MAINTAIN that muzzle velocity from the muzzle then maintain that exact speed all the way out to 2.14 miles or 11,319 feet to get to that distance in 4.0209 seconds!
We both know that bullet can NOT do that speed for 2.14 miles to attain your guesstimate of 4.0209 seconds!
(I figured that out myself with some simple division 11,319' divided by 2,815' per second - resulting in 4.0209 seconds)
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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Fburtgx: I just got back from the Hornady site and they show a muzzle velocity for their 750 grain A-MAX bullet from a 50 BMG cartridge as 2,815 F.P.S. - that bullet had a muzzle energy by the way of 13,196 foot/pounds (ouch!)!!!
Then I checked their trajectory chart and that bullet at that speed when sighted in dead on at 200 yards dropped 35 inches out at 500 yards (or 1,500 feet).
I can't even imagine how much drop a 50 BMG projectile would have out at 11,319 feet (or 3,773 yards!)!
Debunking your "4 second" flight time though, the Hornady projectile would HAVE TO MAINTAIN that muzzle velocity from the muzzle then maintain that exact speed all the way out to 2.14 miles or 11,319 feet to get to that distance in 4.0209 seconds!
We both know that bullet can NOT do that speed for 2.14 miles to attain your guesstimate of 4.0209 seconds!
(I figured that out myself with some simple division 11,319' divided by 2,815' per second - resulting in 4.0209 seconds)
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Good point Varmint......I didn't calculate the bullet slowing down over that extreme range when figuring the time of flight in another thread.


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
fburtgx: I don't know myself - I was NOT there and have never owned a 50 caliber BMG type Rifle.
I wonder if the bullet started out at say 2,000 F.P.S. and probably slowed down a LOT maybe averaging 1,132 F.P.S. over that 11,319 feet.
Thus that is how whoever wrote the story came up with that 10 second figure.
The VERY informative link that "AJ300MAG" linked to above shows a chart that alludes to the bullet getting there (travelling the 11,319 feet!) in just under 10 seconds.
I guess we could figure out the exact time if we knew the Ballistic Coefficient, weight and muzzle velocity off that 50 BMG round?
I will check into this a bit.
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I'm showing with a 200yd zero a drop of 8760" (730') at 3750yds (3429m) using the 750gr A-Max as the example. Flight time comes out as 8.04 seconds.

Of course the shot was fired from an elevated position so it wasn't actually quite the mortar shot those numbers make it out to be.


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OSU.....Thanks for the clarification on horizon distance versus elevation. Only time I can see 2.9 mi. is on Lake Ontario, from shore or small boats,not up high (it's almost 60 miles across to Canada from my location and close to 200 miles long so there's lots of open space). Used to work with some ex-navy guys who knew the horizon distance based on the elevation of the bridge of their ship. Can't recall how far they could see but I remembered that getting a bit elevated sure puts the horizon further out there. Still can't imagine shooting 2.14 mi. even with that TAC 50 .. That had to look damn near like shooting at the horizon, or close to it...... God bless those guys and I hope they can pull off some more shots like that.

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He used extra high rings on his scope which makes it shoot a LOT flatter.

True..... cause I read it here.


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So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Rooster7
That is simply mind boggling when you consider every single factor that had to go right in order to make that shot

which makes it a lucky shot. Plain and simple. But it was a damn educated lucky shot at that.


There was a sniper who shot a very long ways to kill a guy on a machine gun. A new guy stepped up. Took him out with the next shot and shot the machine gun with the next shot. Maybe someone here knows the yardage. Your statement reminds me of a fighter getting knocked out by a lucky punch. No such thing. They worked for it and earned it.



In plain text english, I've shot way more and way further than you ever will and you don't have a P H U- C- K-I-N _G clue on this one.


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Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???



In 5-10 seconds, depending on the load and distance, the earth WILL rotate enough to make a difference.

Just think of the MOA factor at 3700 yards... MOA at 1000 is about 10 inches.... 37 inches at that distance. Vitals not more than 12 inches wide if that really... for perfect dope and perfect hold which is not possible, you have to day in and day out be shooting 1/3 MOA groups....

Yep, damn good swag but still a lucky shot. Regardless of what ding has to say. Needless to say the person he is talking about in his quote I met and spoke with and have shot a fair amount with his son.....


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A tip of the old toque to him. That's one hell of a shot from a true craftsman.

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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???



In 5-10 seconds, depending on the load and distance, the earth WILL rotate enough to make a difference.

Just think of the MOA factor at 3700 yards... MOA at 1000 is about 10 inches.... 37 inches at that distance. Vitals not more than 12 inches wide if that really... for perfect dope and perfect hold which is not possible, you have to day in and day out be shooting 1/3 MOA groups....

Yep, damn good swag but still a lucky shot. Regardless of what ding has to say. Needless to say the person he is talking about in his quote I met and spoke with and have shot a fair amount with his son.....


Jeff do you follow the KO2M matches? They start on the 27th I believe. Those guys are doing some amazing shooting at extreme long ranges...

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This goes back a ways,.........and IIRC, Gale McMillan is not actively involved with the current McMillan Tac 50 production,....don't quote me, on that.
I HAVE heard on the Moccasin telegraph that the Raufoss is THE preferred, indeed recommended round for the Canadian Snipers.
'Twas my extreme honor and pleasure to shoot the old DCMR matches at the Old Sarcee Barracks, with the "Princess Pats" when they were stationed there,....late 70's.

The science and application of serious martial rifle shooting seemed to be the very heart and soul of that outfit, from what I saw.
Damned fine men, and a hoot to hoist a couple with after an 88 rounder, or a LEG match,.......after some very basic paperwork, and in possession of one's then pretty NEW "FAC" ( firearms acquisition certificate ) one could show up at the range armory, and for a nominal fee, sign out an FN, and 100 rounds 7.62 X51,.....there were as well some Palma style SMLEs that a die hard bolt gun loonie could glom onto and shoot,......and a coupla' those older boys could really kick azz with em'
Seems like only yesterday,......all of 40+ years ago, now.
How quickly it all changed, eh ?

Anyhoo,......safe bet that the fellow was shooting Raufoss,.....

GTC




From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Raufoss .50BMG
Date: 14 Jul 1997 08:11:43 -0400

Brian Glusing wrote:

# Hi Scott,
#
# I think I can give you the information you're looking for. Raufuss
# ammunition is Swedish if I remember correctly. It's a .50BMG round,
# made with an explosive filler (C-4 I think, but don't quote me). It was
# designed to bring the effectiveness of .50 machineguns up to 20mm
# standards to avoid having to buy a whole new weapon.
#
# I talked to an Army E.O.D. NCO about 1 1/2 years ago at Ft. Dix, NJ.
# He said that he had traded for some Raufuss ammo (.50 bmg) from some
# NATO troopie while deployed to Bosnia. His findings? The stuff was
# EXTREMELY accurate.
He loved it. His team was using Barrett M82's with
# Leupold Mk4 M3 scopes to detonate mines. He said making a shot on a 6"
# mine from a couple hundred years with the stuff was like shooting fish
# in a barrel. He loved everything about it, except that he couldn't
# legally bring any back to the US with him.
#
# He also said that he found a 7.62x39 version of the same thing but,
# wasn't terribly impressed. I don't recall how accurate he said it was,
# but it just couldn't carry enough explosive content in a 123 grain
# projectile to do anything devastating. He said hits on a 1/4 plate
# penetrated, but that he had tried 7.62x39 armor piercing ammo that had
# done the same.
#
# I have an article about it somewhere in my incredibly messy
# apartment, and if I can find it in the next couple days, I'll post the
# volume number and title so you can get it. Hope this helps.
#
# #
# # Hi folks,
# #
# # Could anybody give me some info on Raufoss ammunition for the .50BMG?
# # I remember reading something about it but forgot where and what it
# # was. If I remember right its from Europe correct?
# #
# # Any info or help would be greatly appreciated.

The above story isn't just right. the Multi purpose Raufus round is of
Norwegian developed round that has been licensed to Olin to be
manufactured in this country. It is an armor piercing,incenderary,high
explosive round with a high explosive charge of RDX. It is a very
accurate round. The Navy uses it in their 50 cal sniper rifle and when
we made the rifle for them we were required to test each gun with it.
At a cost of $7.50 each we burned up a lot of your tax dollars. The
Santa Barbara head stamp had a problem in that some of the cores would
not rotate with the Jacket and you would get an air burst at about 50
yards that would get your attention.



Link: http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/raufoss.html

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Lucky? Hell, incredibly lucky! Not demeaning the obvious skill, 1 moa at 4000 yards = 40'. If he was zeroed at 1000 yards he needed up 203 moa. !

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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???



In 5-10 seconds, depending on the load and distance, the earth WILL rotate enough to make a difference.

Just think of the MOA factor at 3700 yards... MOA at 1000 is about 10 inches.... 37 inches at that distance. Vitals not more than 12 inches wide if that really... for perfect dope and perfect hold which is not possible, you have to day in and day out be shooting 1/3 MOA groups....

Yep, damn good swag but still a lucky shot. Regardless of what ding has to say. Needless to say the person he is talking about in his quote I met and spoke with and have shot a fair amount with his son.....


Jeff do you follow the KO2M matches? They start on the 27th I believe. Those guys are doing some amazing shooting at extreme long ranges...


Had not heard of them but will have to google if i can remember on Friday a bit... a bit busy here this evening.

Thanks for the heads up!


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy

From the AP newsarticle:

A Canadian sniper has beat the record for the longest confirmed kill in military history....
This smashed the last record set by a Briton Craig Harrison, who killed a Taliban soldier with a 338 Lapua Magnum rifle at a range of 8,120 feet(1.54 miles)...


Such sniper records that are revealed to the general public do not take into account sniper achievements conducted during clandestine
ultra sensitive off the record operations...ie; illegal ops and sniper records the public will never be told about.

Certain people I spoke with about 2009 Harrison record didn't think it was anything new or ground breaking as far as actual '"longest shot''
is concerned. but in the narrow category of permissibly released confirmed sniper kills go, it did set a record.

I remember some naive clown who told me how much he knew about the secret ops of spec.forces because he read books written by
X SAS and X SEAL members....LOL..... the same kind of person that would automatically believe that the limited allowable sniper kill
data released to the public must be representative of the longest shot record in sniper history.....yeh right... whistle


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Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???

So not only the rotation of the earth but also its curvature at that range, I would think. 2.14 miles is over half the distance to the horizon so there would have to be some curvature in there also. Try running a ballistics program on that one. Would also be interesting to know more info about the bullet and its velocity.

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It could be that the terrain played a role in this shot. If he was shooting from an elevated position and shooting across a valley, that could change certain parameters. Regardless, being able to hit a target the size of a small school but at that distance would be something I would brag about...


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Was his nameTrystan and was he shooting a Tikka?

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Rost495: Yes indeed at that range the earths rotation IS a factor!
So much so that if he were shooting north to south or south to north the rotation factor would be significant!
BUT... if he were shooting east to west the earths rotation would be much much less of a factor.
ALL the angles of direction in between need "professional help".
"They" (ultra-long range shooters) have computers to figure the earths rotation "hold into" factors.
Personally I wouldhave called in for a cluster bomb for that pphuckk!
Knowing "I" could not have hit the city block he was in with any of the equipment/experience I have - let alone kill the cretin.
I will say though - good shot, amazing shot, way to dope the winds, if there's lead in the air there's hope and keep up the good work.
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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by Rooster7
That is simply mind boggling when you consider every single factor that had to go right in order to make that shot

which makes it a lucky shot. Plain and simple. But it was a damn educated lucky shot at that.


There was a sniper who shot a very long ways to kill a guy on a machine gun. A new guy stepped up. Took him out with the next shot and shot the machine gun with the next shot. Maybe someone here knows the yardage. Your statement reminds me of a fighter getting knocked out by a lucky punch. No such thing. They worked for it and earned it.



In plain text english, I've shot way more and way further than you ever will and you don't have a P H U- C- K-I-N _G clue on this one.


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I guess you didn't understand. I was speaking about the shooters, not myself.


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I could hit the city block easily no doubt in my mind. Even the building he might have been in. Beyond that I"m rusty... and I'm always favorable to a spotter round off the side or two...

Rotation is a factor obviously, anyone that shoots much distance realizes that. And the direction too....you are right there.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
I guess you didn't understand. I was speaking about the shooters, not myself.


No, I'm not dense, I got it. It WAS lucky... you are trying to play it off that he could do that every day, day in and out... it was lucky. The shooter would admit that in a heartbeat, I know I would.

If you read my post I didn't say the shooter and spotter were stupid, and it was blind luck, I said it was educated luck. SWAG is the term....

But then again an AL muzzle break(thats intended) and someone that can't even understand Audette, I expect nothing less.

I've seen these troopers out on the range. Money. No sense. There is a TV commercial about that.


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Originally Posted by 22250rem
OSU.....Thanks for the clarification on horizon distance versus elevation. Only time I can see 2.9 mi. is on Lake Ontario, from shore or small boats,not up high (it's almost 60 miles across to Canada from my location and close to 200 miles long so there's lots of open space). Used to work with some ex-navy guys who knew the horizon distance based on the elevation of the bridge of their ship. Can't recall how far they could see but I remembered that getting a bit elevated sure puts the horizon further out there. Still can't imagine shooting 2.14 mi. even with that TAC 50 .. That had to look damn near like shooting at the horizon, or close to it...... God bless those guys and I hope they can pull off some more shots like that.


There is a rough formula I heard on the radio. You multiply the hight where you are in feet by 1.5. The square root of that gives you miles to the horizon.


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Originally Posted by rost495
No, I'm not dense, I got it. It WAS lucky...


Ya seem pissed that somebody shot farther than 600 yards, and hit the bull.

Cause we all know, 600 is the maximum that skill comes inta play.

As we've been constantly reminded.

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me pissed? Not at all. Luck was involved.

How far are you an expert at ? LOL.

I consider myself a tad bit above average, at least some years ago... aint no way I'd pass that one off as pure skill any day of the rest of my life


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Well, I'm willin to bet I'm as much an expert as you are, Lord high marksman, at shootin over 2 miles.

I wasn't there, but it don't sound like he walked it in.

He took the shot, to the best of his ability, to save his fellow soldiers.

And he made it.

Dude should be drinkin for free the rest of his life.

And then, there's small, ankle-bitin, 600 yard shooters that gotta call luck on his effort.

I'm a believer in therapy for the infirm. If it helps you feel better, it's all yours.

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This is great news!!! I hope our side continues to pour on the misery.

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Now we all know if this had been an American, it would have been standard practise. grin


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Luck was certainly involved. Even if he and his spotter were able to precisely take into account all the known variables at the instant of the shot and come up with a definitive hold for elevation and windage, once that trigger is pulled, the wind would have to remain constant in velocity and direction for those 2 miles and for the duration of the flight time. I was a competitive benchrest shooter and I have missed many times by getting caught in a sudden wind gust or shift and I wasn't shooting anywhere near 2 miles. With wind flags out over much of the distance at a range, it is not unusual to see some flags going one direction and other flags just yards away, facing in a completely different direction. Such an unseen condition as that in the field would throw off a shot even at distances much less than the 2 miles these guys were shooting. That doesn't take anything away from the shot or the skill of the shooter. But it was for certain a S.W.A.G. shot. Hey, if you don't try a shot like that, you'll never make it. I'm happy for him and glad he took and made the shot.

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target was contemplatng his virgins, and only his hand was moving...

And yeah, there was a tad of luck involved- which tends to accrue to those who do their homework.

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Originally Posted by Fubarski
Well, I'm willin to bet I'm as much an expert as you are, Lord high marksman, at shootin over 2 miles.

I wasn't there, but it don't sound like he walked it in.

He took the shot, to the best of his ability, to save his fellow soldiers.

And he made it.

Dude should be drinkin for free the rest of his life.

And then, there's small, ankle-bitin, 600 yard shooters that gotta call luck on his effort.

I'm a believer in therapy for the infirm. If it helps you feel better, it's all yours.


I"m glad you are happy.


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Wilkeshunter: I share your appreciation for this bit of good news in the ongoing (everlasting?) war against radical muslim terrorists.
Does anyone know or have an educated guess as to the particular bullet (projectile) that the Sniper was using?
I am just interested in doing a little more time of flight and trajectory "figgerin".
Hold into the wind
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Originally Posted by rost495
Luck was involved.


I agree. Luck is when opportunity meets preparation.


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Wilkeshunter: I share your appreciation for this bit of good news in the ongoing (everlasting?) war against radical muslim terrorists.
Does anyone know or have an educated guess as to the particular bullet (projectile) that the Sniper was using?
I am just interested in doing a little more time of flight and trajectory "figgerin".
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy


I've seen someone claim it was an Amax but haven't seen the source, the NRA had a blurp on Facebook yesterday and stated a Raufoss was used.

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I didn't know BigStick was in the Canadian Army...good shooting Stumpy!



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An article in today's (6/23/17) Washington Post discusses the incident. Entitled "How Canada’s Small Military Produced Deadly, Record-breaking Snipers", it is an interesting article.

see: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...57b4716&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1

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AJ300MAG & Djs: Thanks for the additional info and link.
I am headed to the linked article now.
Hold into the wind
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Who cares what was used. Nice shootin!

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Originally Posted by 22250rem
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I couldn't SEE that far.

Even with optics.

That's why I was wondering how high that tower was. He must have a helluva good scope. Although I can see a boat that far on open water with optics, or without optics if it's big enough. Looking at 2.14 miles of open space blows my mind trying to think about shooting that far. Gotta wonder what that gun is zeroed at.. IIRC on open water, unless you're elevated,, the freakin horizon is 2.9 miles away and this guy was shooting 2.14 miles.......... Simply amazing


It was only 1000 yards but I watched a Marine Sniper shoot a match M16 with a 223 out to a 1000 yards (Iron Sights) with two groupings on 9" and a group at 6" while playing with our AR50s. with 24 power scopes we could barely hit the 10' sq. target

Theses guy's are trained and skilled and never get the credit that they deserve.

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With the right AR and the right ammo and bullets, thats possible shooting, have done the same more than a few times myself with irons. MOA isn't that hard and you get lucky now and then and get sub MOA with irons too. SOmewhere if I could find it I have a 6 inch spotter disc that has 17 holes in it out of 22 shots, thats where you move the spindle to the last shot hole every time thats in the center of the 6 inch disc... that was only 900 though, but irons and an AR15.

Not hitting a 10 foot target at 1000 with a scoped rifle, I wouldn't have admitted that. LOL.


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Originally Posted by David_Walter
Sure it wasn't a 6.5 Creedmoor?


That would have made it too easy.


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The G1 BC of the 750gr AMAX is 1.05. MV from a 29" barrel is probably ~2700 fps with factory loads.

With a 500 yard zero it goes subsonic sst ~2400 yards.

dist/yds drop /inch MOA Energy velocity
3700 -8886.52 229.00 1334 895 fps

That's a hell of a [bleep] with some luck mixed in. FYI, those rounds are $6.00 a pop commercially. I reload them at ~$2.00 bullet (on sale), .50 primer,~ 230 grains powder .75, so about $3.25 a round sans brass. But I've never burnt more than 20 rounds in day of shooting.


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Fburtgx: I just got back from the Hornady site and they show a muzzle velocity for their 750 grain A-MAX bullet from a 50 BMG cartridge as 2,815 F.P.S. - that bullet had a muzzle energy by the way of 13,196 foot/pounds (ouch!)!!!
Then I checked their trajectory chart and that bullet at that speed when sighted in dead on at 200 yards dropped 35 inches out at 500 yards (or 1,500 feet).
I can't even imagine how much drop a 50 BMG projectile would have out at 11,319 feet (or 3,773 yards!)!
Debunking your "4 second" flight time though, the Hornady projectile would HAVE TO MAINTAIN that muzzle velocity from the muzzle then maintain that exact speed all the way out to 2.14 miles or 11,319 feet to get to that distance in 4.0209 seconds!
We both know that bullet can NOT do that speed for 2.14 miles to attain your guesstimate of 4.0209 seconds!
(I figured that out myself with some simple division 11,319' divided by 2,815' per second - resulting in 4.0209 seconds)
Hold into the wind
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I used to have a Tac-50, similar to this sniper's rifle. It was a pleasure to shoot. Pretty close to a light 308 in recoil. They have a good brake. And they are hard on anyone shooting to your sides--a lot of blast.

When somebody else at the range wanted to shoot it they'd be anxious at the first shot then couldn't believe how nice it was. Not light loads but GI Ball.


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
This goes back a ways,.........and IIRC, Gale McMillan is not actively involved with the current McMillan Tac 50 production,....don't quote me, on that.
I HAVE heard on the Moccasin telegraph that the Raufoss is THE preferred, indeed recommended round for the Canadian Snipers.
'Twas my extreme honor and pleasure to shoot the old DCMR matches at the Old Sarcee Barracks, with the "Princess Pats" when they were stationed there,....late 70's.

The science and application of serious martial rifle shooting seemed to be the very heart and soul of that outfit, from what I saw.
Damned fine men, and a hoot to hoist a couple with after an 88 rounder, or a LEG match,.......after some very basic paperwork, and in possession of one's then pretty NEW "FAC" ( firearms acquisition certificate ) one could show up at the range armory, and for a nominal fee, sign out an FN, and 100 rounds 7.62 X51,.....there were as well some Palma style SMLEs that a die hard bolt gun loonie could glom onto and shoot,......and a coupla' those older boys could really kick azz with em'
Seems like only yesterday,......all of 40+ years ago, now.
How quickly it all changed, eh ?

Anyhoo,......safe bet that the fellow was shooting Raufoss,.....

GTC




From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Raufoss .50BMG
Date: 14 Jul 1997 08:11:43 -0400

Brian Glusing wrote:

# Hi Scott,
#
# I think I can give you the information you're looking for. Raufuss
# ammunition is Swedish if I remember correctly. It's a .50BMG round,
# made with an explosive filler (C-4 I think, but don't quote me). It was
# designed to bring the effectiveness of .50 machineguns up to 20mm
# standards to avoid having to buy a whole new weapon.
#
# I talked to an Army E.O.D. NCO about 1 1/2 years ago at Ft. Dix, NJ.
# He said that he had traded for some Raufuss ammo (.50 bmg) from some
# NATO troopie while deployed to Bosnia. His findings? The stuff was
# EXTREMELY accurate.
He loved it. His team was using Barrett M82's with
# Leupold Mk4 M3 scopes to detonate mines. He said making a shot on a 6"
# mine from a couple hundred years with the stuff was like shooting fish
# in a barrel. He loved everything about it, except that he couldn't
# legally bring any back to the US with him.
#
# He also said that he found a 7.62x39 version of the same thing but,
# wasn't terribly impressed. I don't recall how accurate he said it was,
# but it just couldn't carry enough explosive content in a 123 grain
# projectile to do anything devastating. He said hits on a 1/4 plate
# penetrated, but that he had tried 7.62x39 armor piercing ammo that had
# done the same.
#
# I have an article about it somewhere in my incredibly messy
# apartment, and if I can find it in the next couple days, I'll post the
# volume number and title so you can get it. Hope this helps.
#
# #
# # Hi folks,
# #
# # Could anybody give me some info on Raufoss ammunition for the .50BMG?
# # I remember reading something about it but forgot where and what it
# # was. If I remember right its from Europe correct?
# #
# # Any info or help would be greatly appreciated.

The above story isn't just right. the Multi purpose Raufus round is of
Norwegian developed round that has been licensed to Olin to be
manufactured in this country. It is an armor piercing,incenderary,high
explosive round with a high explosive charge of RDX. It is a very
accurate round. The Navy uses it in their 50 cal sniper rifle and when
we made the rifle for them we were required to test each gun with it.
At a cost of $7.50 each we burned up a lot of your tax dollars. The
Santa Barbara head stamp had a problem in that some of the cores would
not rotate with the Jacket and you would get an air burst at about 50
yards that would get your attention.



Link: http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/raufoss.html


Gale died some years ago. Rock and his brother ran the business for years but now I believe It's out of their hands.


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Yikes - 2.14 miles!

From the AP newsarticle:

A Canadian sniper has beat the record for the longest confirmed kill in military history by picking off an ISIS fighter from a staggering 11,319 feet. The bullet was fired from a McMillan TAC-50 rifle set on a high-rise tower and took 10 seconds to travel the 2.14 miles towards the fighter, who was attacking Iraqi soldiers. This smashed the last record set by a Briton Craig Harrison, who killed a Taliban soldier with a 338 Lapua Magnum rifle at a range of 8,120 feet(1.54 miles) in 2009. A military source told The Globe and Mail the kill was verified by video,

OMG!
Hold into the wind
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Confirmation dammit, I need confirmation.







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Originally Posted by g5m
Originally Posted by crossfireoops
This goes back a ways,.........and IIRC, Gale McMillan is not actively involved with the current McMillan Tac 50 production,....don't quote me, on that.
I HAVE heard on the Moccasin telegraph that the Raufoss is THE preferred, indeed recommended round for the Canadian Snipers.
'Twas my extreme honor and pleasure to shoot the old DCMR matches at the Old Sarcee Barracks, with the "Princess Pats" when they were stationed there,....late 70's.

The science and application of serious martial rifle shooting seemed to be the very heart and soul of that outfit, from what I saw.
Damned fine men, and a hoot to hoist a couple with after an 88 rounder, or a LEG match,.......after some very basic paperwork, and in possession of one's then pretty NEW "FAC" ( firearms acquisition certificate ) one could show up at the range armory, and for a nominal fee, sign out an FN, and 100 rounds 7.62 X51,.....there were as well some Palma style SMLEs that a die hard bolt gun loonie could glom onto and shoot,......and a coupla' those older boys could really kick azz with em'
Seems like only yesterday,......all of 40+ years ago, now.
How quickly it all changed, eh ?

Anyhoo,......safe bet that the fellow was shooting Raufoss,.....

GTC




From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Raufoss .50BMG
Date: 14 Jul 1997 08:11:43 -0400

Brian Glusing wrote:

# Hi Scott,
#
# I think I can give you the information you're looking for. Raufuss
# ammunition is Swedish if I remember correctly. It's a .50BMG round,
# made with an explosive filler (C-4 I think, but don't quote me). It was
# designed to bring the effectiveness of .50 machineguns up to 20mm
# standards to avoid having to buy a whole new weapon.
#
# I talked to an Army E.O.D. NCO about 1 1/2 years ago at Ft. Dix, NJ.
# He said that he had traded for some Raufuss ammo (.50 bmg) from some
# NATO troopie while deployed to Bosnia. His findings? The stuff was
# EXTREMELY accurate.
He loved it. His team was using Barrett M82's with
# Leupold Mk4 M3 scopes to detonate mines. He said making a shot on a 6"
# mine from a couple hundred years with the stuff was like shooting fish
# in a barrel. He loved everything about it, except that he couldn't
# legally bring any back to the US with him.
#
# He also said that he found a 7.62x39 version of the same thing but,
# wasn't terribly impressed. I don't recall how accurate he said it was,
# but it just couldn't carry enough explosive content in a 123 grain
# projectile to do anything devastating. He said hits on a 1/4 plate
# penetrated, but that he had tried 7.62x39 armor piercing ammo that had
# done the same.
#
# I have an article about it somewhere in my incredibly messy
# apartment, and if I can find it in the next couple days, I'll post the
# volume number and title so you can get it. Hope this helps.
#
# #
# # Hi folks,
# #
# # Could anybody give me some info on Raufoss ammunition for the .50BMG?
# # I remember reading something about it but forgot where and what it
# # was. If I remember right its from Europe correct?
# #
# # Any info or help would be greatly appreciated.

The above story isn't just right. the Multi purpose Raufus round is of
Norwegian developed round that has been licensed to Olin to be
manufactured in this country. It is an armor piercing,incenderary,high
explosive round with a high explosive charge of RDX. It is a very
accurate round. The Navy uses it in their 50 cal sniper rifle and when
we made the rifle for them we were required to test each gun with it.
At a cost of $7.50 each we burned up a lot of your tax dollars. The
Santa Barbara head stamp had a problem in that some of the cores would
not rotate with the Jacket and you would get an air burst at about 50
yards that would get your attention.



Link: http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/raufoss.html


Gale died some years ago. Rock and his brother ran the business for years but now I believe It's out of their hands.


Kelly McMillan is running the show now.

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Shooting over extreme distances at a living target which has the possibility of moving out of the cross-hairs at any fraction of a second between when the trigger is pulled and the bullet arrives seems to me would as unpredictable therefore involve some degree of luck as much anything.

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Originally Posted by joken2

Shooting over extreme distances at a living target which has the possibility of moving out of the cross-hairs at any fraction of a second between when the trigger is pulled and the bullet arrives seems to me would as unpredictable therefore involve some degree of luck as much anything.


It must be unethical then...


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Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???



In 5-10 seconds, depending on the load and distance, the earth WILL rotate enough to make a difference.

Just think of the MOA factor at 3700 yards... MOA at 1000 is about 10 inches.... 37 inches at that distance. Vitals not more than 12 inches wide if that really... for perfect dope and perfect hold which is not possible, you have to day in and day out be shooting 1/3 MOA groups....

Yep, damn good swag but still a lucky shot. Regardless of what ding has to say. Needless to say the person he is talking about in his quote I met and spoke with and have shot a fair amount with his son.....


Jeff do you follow the KO2M matches? They start on the 27th I believe. Those guys are doing some amazing shooting at extreme long ranges...


Just had time finally.. well with Emil coaching wind I dont' think they could have asked for more. Emil is a great shooter and a great coach. Enjoyed my time around him at Perry for more than a few years!!! Just a great guy.


Now for all the SOBs claiming no luck... look the smallest group was 17x22... 17 tall works for a torso, but 22 wide... IIRC, well there is a miss in there... and it was only a 3 shot group.... Just saying... of course a few other shooters here know the luck involved in a first round kill on that shot.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by AJ300MAG
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by 2ndwind
So, the Earth's rotation is a factor that needs to be calculated for at that range???



In 5-10 seconds, depending on the load and distance, the earth WILL rotate enough to make a difference.

Just think of the MOA factor at 3700 yards... MOA at 1000 is about 10 inches.... 37 inches at that distance. Vitals not more than 12 inches wide if that really... for perfect dope and perfect hold which is not possible, you have to day in and day out be shooting 1/3 MOA groups....

Yep, damn good swag but still a lucky shot. Regardless of what ding has to say. Needless to say the person he is talking about in his quote I met and spoke with and have shot a fair amount with his son.....


Jeff do you follow the KO2M matches? They start on the 27th I believe. Those guys are doing some amazing shooting at extreme long ranges...


Had not heard of them but will have to google if i can remember on Friday a bit... a bit busy here this evening.

Thanks for the heads up!


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Originally Posted by rost495


Just had time finally.. well with Emil coaching wind I dont' think they could have asked for more. Emil is a great shooter and a great coach. Enjoyed my time around him at Perry for more than a few years!!! Just a great guy.


Now for all the SOBs claiming no luck... look the smallest group was 17x22... 17 tall works for a torso, but 22 wide... IIRC, well there is a miss in there... and it was only a 3 shot group.... Just saying... of course a few other shooters here know the luck involved in a first round kill on that shot.


I shot on the same relay, target next to Emil during the F-Class Nationals at Butner a dozen years ago. Agreed, he's a great guy. Emil and Bryan are the dream team of wind readers/callers, Paul ain't no slouch either...

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I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS


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lmao.....


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Originally Posted by rondrews
I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS


"WOW"... you got that much right.


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I reckon if the bullet was heavier it would just have dropped straight down after leaving the muzzle.
I can't say what the odds would be that such a shot would hit but it is certain that this shot beat the odds. GD

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But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time.


Ignorance is bliss... crazy

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Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS



So are you saying for the 3 mile shot it will require a lighter bullet? Kinda makes sense because of how fast heavy stuff drops compared to light stuff. I'm guessing when shooters get hip to this you'll start seeing more and more at the matches developing loads with 100 grain bullets instead of the 140's, especially as you get out past 600 yds.

I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.

are you pulling our leg or do not understand how that shot is possible, even though it would involve some luck.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.



Your uninformed "common sense".

Your lack of knowledge concerning ballistics is readily obvious.

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Originally Posted by rondrews
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.


http://forum.barrett.net/viewtopic.php?t=3241

Quote
The Maximum effective range of the .50 BMG round is 2,000 yards; Maximum range is 7,140 yards. Or 21,420 ft. Which is 4.06 miles (5,280’/mile). This assumes 647g FMJ ammo.
Specific data:
Initial Angle: 36.3 deg Terminal Angle: 62.9 deg
Terminal Range: 7140.0 yds Terminal Velocity: 585.2 ft/s
Terminal Time: 38.397 sec. Terminal Energy: 491.9 ft•lbs

If shooting .50BMG AMAX Match Ammo (from a bolt rifle), the BC is much better so the Maximum range would be 8,820 yards. Or 26,460 ft. Which is 5.01 miles (5,280’/mile). This assumes 750g AMAX Match ammo.
Specific data:
Initial Angle: 37.5 deg Terminal Angle: 61.5 deg
Terminal Range: 8820.0 yds Terminal Velocity: 677.4 ft/s
Terminal Time: 42.799 sec Terminal Energy: 764.0 ft•lbs

Maximum Distance - Maximum distance achieved.
Initial Angle - The angle of the barrel relative to the ground.
Terminal Range - The distance achieved by the bullet for the elevation.
Terminal Angle - Angle at which bullet strikes the ground. Ninety degrees is straight down.
Terminal Velocity - The final speed of the bullet in feet per second
Terminal Energy - Really the "Kinetic Energy" of the bullet. The kinetic energy is a measure of the maximum amount of work (force time distance) an object can do. [It is also a measure of the work done by the firearm/case/primer/powder on the bullet.]
Time of flight - The time of flight of bullet in seconds.

Given the above, it would be possible to kill something at the Maximum distances indicated.


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Originally Posted by westside_benny
Originally Posted by rondrews
I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS



So are you saying for the 3 mile shot it will require a lighter bullet? Kinda makes sense because of how fast heavy stuff drops compared to light stuff. I'm guessing when shooters get hip to this you'll start seeing more and more at the matches developing loads with 100 grain bullets instead of the 140's, especially as you get out past 600 yds.

I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story.


The snipers need to put the 50's on the shelf and go to a proven lighter bullet like in the 270 Win.


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lots of talk about horizon. Can anyone tell me what distance to the horizon has to do with making the shot?

The horizon is uniform only over water. From my house the horizon is 40 plus miles to the North and East.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS


The BC of Hornady's .50 caliber bullet is 1.050, almost twice that of good bullets of .30 and smaller caliber. At the same muzzle velocity it will therefore have a FLATTER trajectory.

As for bullet drop compensation, don't you think the military is smart enough to procure scopes with more elevation adjustment than Leupold hunting scopes?

This reminds me of the Adobe Wells battle in the 1870s, when a buffalo hunter shot an Indian chief off his horse at 1500 yards or thereabouts with a black powder buffalo rifle. About 20 years ago some guys tried to duplicate this, using a large drawing of an Indian and a horse on a large sheet of cloth. IIRC, only one shot even hit the cloth.

I've done enough competitive shooting at (only) 1000 yards to realize that the Canadian's feat was more luck than skill. But if he hadn't had a lot of skill the luck would not have mattered.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
I wonder how long it's going to be until someone claims a kill at 3 miles. I cannot in my mind see a Sniper popping someone off at over two miles. Put an Orange colored ball on the shoulder of a long road, walk two miles away and see if you can see it. Now, you say there are Optics involved. Most Certainly. But the Bullet Drop Compensation would have made it impossible to get a target into view at that distance. It would be in feet, not inches. A .50 cal. Bullet is so heavy that it would have hit the ground long before that distance. Certainly not possible to maintain a ten second flight time. So, as the story get's around, people say, "WOW", or "Isn't that something?". I say BS

I will just address one point of this BS post.

If you want to shoot something at 2.1 miles, it helps to have the rifle originally zeroed at 1.5 miles. Not so many minutees of comeup to dial in that way. And remember, each minute of comeup at 3500 yds is 35 inches.

As to the rest of your post, I reference you to Sir Issac Newton.


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Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two.


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Because the bullet was too heavy to fly that far?


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Originally Posted by rondrews
Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two.


The King of 2 Mile matches are being held at the Whittington Center starting on June 27th. Google it, see what people are accomplishing these days. Ain't the .50BMG of days past.

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Originally Posted by rondrews
I don't believe everything I read in the press.


Hopefully no one does.


Retired cat herder.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
Sure, Jeff. Better to remain silent than to bring up the obvious common sense question and get a response from some one more knowledgeable than myself? Not my style. I don't believe everything I read in the press. If you need verification of the kill, wait until a Ballistic expert joins in. Then you might have a better idea of what the actual circumstances would have been. I fired the BMG .50 in the Marine Corps. I'm no expert, but if you asked me to take down a target at two miles, I would have laughed at you. One mile, maybe, but not two.

Just a thought, what does a 155 howitzer round weigh, and what is its range?

How about a 16 inch naval gun?


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Idaho Shooter: If I recall correctly the "guns" on the U.S.S. Missouri were 16 inch guns?
Anyway on the tour of the U.S.S. Missouri I took I distinctly remember the naval fellow giving the tour, stating, (in response to a question!) that the projectile from the U.S.S. Missouri's "big guns" weighed nearly as much as a VW Bug and flew for 25 miles.
Then (again IIRC!) I later read a story regarding these guns back in the Viet Nam War era and they were used then - the story alluded to where the U.S.S. Missouri sailed up near the shore of that country flooded some tanks on the offshore side of the battleship thus allowing the "big guns" to elevate their muzzles numerous more degrees and then some projectiles went 30+ miles inland to hit targets.
Someone please correct me if need be on these interesting facts regarding 16" naval guns.
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Idaho Shooter: Indeed "Wikipedia" verified that the U.S.S. Missouri had nine 16 "big guns"!
The projectiles those big guns fired weighed 2,240 pounds (two thousand two hundred and fourty pounds!)!
The 2,240 pound projectiles from these 16" guns flew for 23 miles!
I bet that is a LOT of muzzle energy!
Let alone the explosive power of those projectiles.
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Idaho Shooter: UPDATE!
Those 2,240 pound projectiles were the "original" intended shells!
Those were replaced with projectiles that weighed 2,700 pounds (two thousand seven hundred pounds!) each!
Those projectiles flew for 23 miles.
Then in a less clear reference Wikipedia gave muzzle velocities thusly:

AP = 2,300 F.P.S.
HC = 2,635 F.P.S.

I am guessing the "AP" above is in reference to an "armor piercing" projectile?
I don't know what the "HC" refers to.
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Originally Posted by rondrews
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.


On this particular subject, you are as ignorant / stupid as a bag of hammers, sitting on a tub fulla potatoes, with a coupla' front loaders fulla' horsechit dumped over the works.

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But Rondrews told us for fact the 50 BMG could not shoot two miles because the 750 gr bullet is too heavy. But our dreadnaughts routinely tossed 2000 pound plus projectiles over 20 miles.

They are all just bullets.


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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Idaho Shooter: UPDATE!
Those 2,240 pound projectiles were the "original" intended shells!
Those were replaced with projectiles that weighed 2,700 pounds (two thousand seven hundred pounds!) each!
Those projectiles flew for 23 miles.
Then in a less clear reference Wikipedia gave muzzle velocities thusly:

AP = 2,300 F.P.S.
HC = 2,635 F.P.S.

I am guessing the "AP" above is in reference to an "armor piercing" projectile?
I don't know what the "HC" refers to.
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Quote
The High Capacity (HC) shell can create a crater 50 feet wide and 20 feet deep (15 x 6 m). During her deployment off Vietnam, USS New Jersey (BB-62) occasionally fired a single HC round into the jungle and so created a helicopter landing zone 200 yards (180 m) in diameter and defoliated trees for 300 yards (270 m) beyond that.


More interesting info here: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-45_mk5.php

And here: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

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Ya' know,....something nobody's tossed into this variegated and pretty damned "broadest spectrum" of comments is, to this humble scribe,
GLARINGLY absent.
....this being "Intermediate Weather data Transmitters / Sensors",....available in an almost DAZZLING array of sizes, shapes, forms. Some simple line of sight, some Satellite uplinked, some on a "Net" that can involve MANY different recipients of WIND, TEMP, Barometric Pressures, and probably a whole lot more, up to and including a geophone function.....They can be airdropped, fired into place out of mortars, or, as in the case here,...EMPLACED by the troops going forward under his gun. They can be fabulously pricey,....or in real battlefield dominance terms, considered disposable,.....self destructing when mission's accomplished, via a freq. burst,....in other words, VERY similar to the self destruct capability of lotsa' UAV / Drone electronics.

The man on the rifles not doing a whole lot of calculating,......the "solutions mean correction" factors, CONSTANTLY updating via mega-bit miracles do however appear on his handheld device.

Nothing particularly NEW about this, either,....the devices I'm presenting here for consideration were available to American Military shooters during Gulf War 1,....and have no bloody doubt, vastly improved, since.

Not dismissing, "Luck",.....just trying to suggest that some of the "experienced marksman" posting in response to this thread ought to study up a bit,..... wink


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Originally Posted by 12344mag
I'll bet he is not a friend of Justin's.

Justin who?

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Why do folks get their panties in a wad when the luck factor is mentioned? No one has disputed that it wasn't one hell of a shot. Or that the skill of the sniper isn't a deciding factor in enhancing said "luck". If the intended target, is a smaller area than the theoretical accuracy potential of the rifle, which it would almost have to be in this case, then it is pure luck that the bullet would happen to land within the confines of the targets torso, rather than outside it. Jeez, cool your jets and accept it for what it is. The good thing is, it's one more ISIS [bleep], that isn't stealing oxygen from the planet any longer. Kudo's to the rifleman, but to deny luck isn't a factor, is simply delusional.

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Since we don't know how many forms of remote techno gizmo data services he actually relied to take the shot,
we don't know how much luck was actually involved.

also, was he using ball or custom tuned rounds?

WE also don't know how mission critical the shot was, i.e.; was he just varminting? Had he missed it may have only
meant there was still one more iSIS raghead left to kill..He may have also missed on occasions at similar ranges prior,
which effects his KILL RATIO.

People talk about Chris Kyles 160 confirmed kills , but what was his K-R..?



Pound for pound, I reckon Elmer Keiths 600yd mule deer with open sight 44mag revolver takes the cake...grin


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Quote
was he using ball or custom tuned rounds?


The fact that this question is even being fielded at this point is a good verifier that this thread's gone into endless loop,

Than and again, one can consider the source.....

You feel he may have picked up some Ball ammo from Cheaper than Dirt,.....or maybe just some that he found somewhere, and de-linked to play with ?

Jesus Weeps.

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How stupid can you be to compare a Sniper holding a rifle that weighs around 200 lbs and shoots a little .50 Round that you can carry in your pocket to the 16" guns on a Naval ship that Weighs over 2,000 lbs. And has a number of bags of powder under it that are capable of pushing the projectile for 23 miles? Why don't we sit and compare an apple to an orange?


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Originally Posted by stxhunter
Originally Posted by rondrews
Ignorance may be bliss, but common sense is not.

are you pulling our leg or do not understand how that shot is possible, even though it would involve some luck.


Gotta be yanking our chain. IF not no one would put on a box that a 22 lr can go 1.5 miles... and that deer rifle type stuff can go 7 miles or so give or take like our hunter education stuff teaches.....

Common sense ain't all that common eh?


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Originally Posted by SuperCub
Originally Posted by 12344mag
I'll bet he is not a friend of Justin's.

Justin who?


Justin Trudeau
23rd Prime Minister of Canada


Paul

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Joken: Thank you for the clarification and interesting links.
Clearing the jungle with one shell to a diameter of 200 yards (600 feet!) is absolutely amazing.
Thanks again.
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rondrew: For you to call someone stupid for something they didn't do is juvenile, petty and ignorant.
Its obvious you have something in your pimply faced head other than sharing information and interacting in a mature way with adults.
I suggest you graduate from "South Park Grade School" and grow up a bit then come back and interact politely.
Sheesh - your remind me of Kartman in so many ways.
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For sure, one unlucky muzzy.

I hope he lived long enough to hear the shot that got him and wonder how long the lag time before the sound got there.

Can you imagine others standing around him and hearing a whack and seeing a leg fly off and wondering wtf.

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For those who are interested JBM ballistics will do calculations out to 4000 yards. It's free and online.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

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Originally Posted by akjeff
Why do folks get their panties in a wad when the luck factor is mentioned? No one has disputed that it wasn't one hell of a shot. Or that the skill of the sniper isn't a deciding factor in enhancing said "luck". If the intended target, is a smaller area than the theoretical accuracy potential of the rifle, which it would almost have to be in this case, then it is pure luck that the bullet would happen to land within the confines of the targets torso, rather than outside it. Jeez, cool your jets and accept it for what it is. The good thing is, it's one more ISIS [bleep], that isn't stealing oxygen from the planet any longer. Kudo's to the rifleman, but to deny luck isn't a factor, is simply delusional.

Jeff


WELL stated Jeff.


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Originally Posted by rondrews
How stupid can you be to compare a Sniper holding a rifle that weighs around 200 lbs and shoots a little .50 Round that you can carry in your pocket to the 16" guns on a Naval ship that Weighs over 2,000 lbs. And has a number of bags of powder under it that are capable of pushing the projectile for 23 miles? Why don't we sit and compare an apple to an orange?



Disregard my post... you ain't a chain yanker, you are just an ignorant person. Carry on.


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Quote
was he using ball or custom tuned rounds?


The fact that this question is even being fielded at this point is a good verifier that this thread's gone into endless loop,

Than and again, one can consider the source.....

You feel he may have picked up some Ball ammo from Cheaper than Dirt,.....or maybe just some that he found somewhere, and de-linked to play with ?

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Originally Posted by westside_benny


I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story.



What kind of beef stew? Dinty Moore I would understand.





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When I was in Armor training at Ft Knox in the 1980 s. The Army instructed us the Geneva convention forbid shooting a 50 cal (M 2) at troops. We were instructed to aim at the troops equipment. Is it now O.K. To snipe troops with. 50 cal?


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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
Originally Posted by westside_benny


I shot a can of beef stew off a stump at over a mile once. True story.



What kind of beef stew? Dinty Moore I would understand.





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Kind of hard to remember the details. It was a bad year. I lost my spotter and best friend, but shot down a helicopter; so there was at least a little payback. Had kind of become a recluse to be honest...lol. Was living in a chithole cabin with my dog and pretty much living off of canned goods. Then these spooky G Men show up, upset my dog, and got me thinking about whether or not a crazy shot at a mile would be possible. Now, I don't want to embellish, for the record it was not a standard 15 oz can but one of the big 25 oz ones; living alone in a mountain shack did not decrease my appetite! Anyways, and thanks for the question, I am pretty sure it was Dinty Moore; if only because there really is no other beef stew worth a damn.

As luck would have it I "go-pro'd" the whole thing...you can see it on Youtube.



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varmint guy. Go back and look at the post by crossfireoops and you will see why I answered in that manner..


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Originally Posted by rost495
With the right AR and the right ammo and bullets, thats possible shooting, have done the same more than a few times myself with irons. MOA isn't that hard and you get lucky now and then and get sub MOA with irons too. SOmewhere if I could find it I have a 6 inch spotter disc that has 17 holes in it out of 22 shots, thats where you move the spindle to the last shot hole every time thats in the center of the 6 inch disc... that was only 900 though, but irons and an AR15.

Not hitting a 10 foot target at 1000 with a scoped rifle, I wouldn't have admitted that. LOL.


That is what happens when a friend calls you up and asks if you want to go to Twentynine Palms Military base and shoot your AR50 out to a 1000 yards
Having never shooting it past 100 yards to break in the barrel.
After about 5 shots I was on the Target and at fifteen shots I close to center my friend was not to good and after he sighted his rifle in his son was spot on.
The Officer that shot the AR15 told us at the end of the day that he would not be to afraid of my friend and myself but he would not want his son shooting at him.

We all got a good laugh out of it.

I invited another shooter he had an EDM 50BMG with a Leupold scope on it. Blew the scope up on the first shot.
at the end of the day I fired 3 rounds out of it and told him he could have it hurt me to much to care to ever shoot another one again.
My girl friend can shoot my AR50 all day and she is pretty much a Girly Girl when it comes to recoil.

Our Military guys deserve a lot more than they get. As bad as we were at first they all still gave us non military guys full respect.
Shook our hands at the end of the day and invited us back.



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They do deserve more respect than they get thats for sure.

My wife is around 115 pounds, not quite 5 feet....she shoots all the time, and anything we have, the AR50 basically has no recoil to speak of. The concussion is a bit rough though after a while.

800 and 900 are not so bad, but things seem to get a bit weirder once you hit 1000... like I said I"ve never fired over 1800 yards with the 50 but I sure would like to at some point. I believe Alaska will allow me that chance in the coming years.


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Originally Posted by rost495
They do deserve more respect than they get thats for sure.

My wife is around 115 pounds, not quite 5 feet....she shoots all the time, and anything we have, the AR50 basically has no recoil to speak of. The concussion is a bit rough though after a while.

800 and 900 are not so bad, but things seem to get a bit weirder once you hit 1000... like I said I"ve never fired over 1800 yards with the 50 but I sure would like to at some point. I believe Alaska will allow me that chance in the coming years.


Dood...

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