Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game "The 30-06 is obsolete!"

The '06 gets any reasonable thing asked of it done. The fact is it is far more capable than most people shooting it can realize. Now if you want more out of it don't go firewalling it, buy a magnum. Just because you can run it above Sammi specs doesn't mean you should.

Of course that comes from someone who went past the books on 280 rem. That was in my younger years when I thought 100 fps made all the difference.

I think someone doesn't have ANY thing else to do but stay on the 'puter'.

Get A Life.

Jerry

Jerry,it makes for some interesting reading.

True here, stuck here taking care of my wife. Up until I go to work and my step son takes over.

yeah. that's what I thought...

RMDNFREE - Absolutely NO reference to / toward you ! You have my respect, tending to your wife!! You really DO have a life, just ask her! Sorry for her situation - I admire your responsibility!!

Jerry

No that's about as theoretical as it gets.

Most load data DOES come from manufacturers because most ammo shot is factory loads. Non-handloaders far outnumber handloaders. For them the load data is limited to external ballistics, but that is OK because the loads are pressure tested by the manufacturers and pretty much all the shooters are interested in is the external ballistics and bullet construction.

For the handloaders, once again most data comes from the manufacturers as relatively few use QuickLoad.

The set of shooters that use QuickLoad is a tiny percent of all shooters and a small minority of handloaders.

Every rifle is different,but I have rifles and loads that will run these velocities.Some will run a little more,some a little less.So these are more real life ballistics with bullets designed more for hunting.So let's compare the 30-06 to the 308 with the same 168gr Nosler BT bullets and I'll throw in a 7mag load with a similar weight 160gr Nosler Accubond for the hell of it.

Your Input Variables
Ballistic Coefficient 0.490 Velocity (ft/s) 3000 Weight (grains) 168
Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 100 Drag Function G1
Sight Height (inches) 1.5 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 200
Wind Speed (mph) 0 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0
Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78
Ballistics Results - 30-06
Range (yards) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.-lb.) Trajectory (in) Come UP in MOA Come UP in Mils Wind Drift (in) Wind Drift in MOA Wind Drift in Mils
Muzzle 3000 3357 -1.5 0 0 0 0 0
100 2806 2937 1.5 -1.4 -0.4 0 0 0
200 2621 2563 0 0 0 0 0 0
300 2443 2227 -6.5 2.1 0.6 0 0 0
400 2272 1926 -18.9 4.5 1.3 0 0 0
500 2108 1657 -38 7.3 2.1 0 0 0
600 1951 1420 -65 10.3 3 0 0 0
700 1801 1210 -101.1 13.8 4 0 0 0
800 1660 1028 -148 17.7 5.1 0 0 0
900 1528 871 -207.5 22 6.4 0 0 0
1000 1407 739 -281.9 26.9 7.8 0 0 0


Your Input Variables
Ballistic Coefficient 0.490 Velocity (ft/s) 2700 Weight (grains) 168
Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 100 Drag Function G1
Sight Height (inches) 1.5 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 200
Wind Speed (mph) 0 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0
Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78
Ballistics Results - 308
Range (yards) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.-lb.) Trajectory (in) Come UP in MOA Come UP in Mils Wind Drift (in) Wind Drift in MOA Wind Drift in Mils
Muzzle 2700 2719 -1.5 0 0 0 0 0
100 2519 2366 2 -1.9 -0.6 0 0 0
200 2345 2051 0 0 0 0 0 0
300 2178 1769 -8.3 2.6 0.8 0 0 0
400 2017 1518 -24 5.7 1.7 0 0 0
500 1864 1297 -48.2 9.2 2.7 0 0 0
600 1720 1103 -82.5 13.1 3.8 0 0 0
700 1584 936 -128.5 17.5 5.1 0 0 0
800 1458 793 -188.5 22.5 6.5 0 0 0
900 1344 673 -264.8 28.1 8.2 0 0 0
1000 1243 576 -360.4 34.4 10 0 0 0


Your Input Variables
Ballistic Coefficient 0.531 Velocity (ft/s) 3100 Weight (grains) 160
Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 100 Drag Function G1
Sight Height (inches) 1.5 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 200
Wind Speed (mph) 0 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0
Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78
Ballistics Results - 7mag
Range (yards) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.-lb.) Trajectory (in) Come UP in MOA Come UP in Mils Wind Drift (in) Wind Drift in MOA Wind Drift in Mils
Muzzle 3100 3414 -1.5 0 0 0 0 0
100 2917 3022 1.3 -1.2 -0.4 0 0 0
200 2741 2669 0 0 0 0 0 0
300 2572 2351 -5.9 1.9 0.5 0 0 0
400 2410 2063 -17.1 4.1 1.2 0 0 0
500 2253 1803 -34.3 6.5 1.9 0 0 0
600 2102 1570 -58.3 9.3 2.7 0 0 0
700 1957 1360 -90.3 12.3 3.6 0 0 0
800 1818 1175 -131.3 15.7 4.6 0 0 0
900 1687 1011 -182.9 19.4 5.6 0 0 0
1000 1563 868 -246.7 23.6 6.9 0 0 0

The '06 can make me a sammich any day. 308? A chicken nugget.

If your beef is with .308 factory loads, then we're actually in agreement about that. Most factory .308 is download WAY below SAAMI and/or with overly fast powders to avoid bending crappy cast M1A op rods.

Of course if your constrain .30-06 to only factory ammo that will run in a Garand, it doesn't look so hot either.

Thanks man

Obsolete, well, I have a Remington classic 7x57 when fed 154 grain interlocks I'd be perfectly comfortable hunting everything short of big bears with. Then again if I wanted to up that game I can think of nothing better than a 8x57 with 195 grain bullets. 30-06 falls right in there.


You young folks go ahead and have fun with your whiz bang rounds. Us old folks will just go on killing game with our obsolete rounds.

Can this marriage be saved?

I don’t have a beef with factory .308 Win loads – they are what they are and I rarely shoot them. That said, non-handloaders are pretty much stuck with them.

Nor do I have a clue why people would constrain their .30-06 loads to something that would run in a Garand when most shooters and hunters don’t own one.

I just finished review the factory loads for Winchester, Remington and Federal. In many cases there isn’t a lot of difference between the .308 and .30-06 but the .30-06 almost always has a higher velocity (or maybe always, I didn’t check every load).

There is a dearth of 180g and higher weight loads for the .308 Win, but here is one comparison:

2620fps = Federal P308TT1, .308 Win/180g, Trophy Bonded Tip
2880fps = Federal P308TT4, .308 Win/165g, Trophy Bonded Tip (Note this is a 165g load)

2700fps = Federal P3006TT1, .30-06/180g, Trophy Bonded Tip
2880fps = Federal P3006TT4, .30-06/180g, Trophy Bonded Tip

Say what you will, at 300 yards the 30-06/180g2880fps load provides a 100 yard advantage over the similar .308 Win/180g load in terms of retained energy and about 150 yards in velocity.

I’d hunt elk with either but where the .308 falls below 1500fpe a bit past 400 yards, the .30-06 retains that energy out to about 550 yards. And where the .308 falls below 2000fps at about 375 yards, the .30-06 load maintains it past 500 yards.

I had never messed with the '06 much. Recently, I inherited a Savage 110, Left-hand 30-06 from my Father-IN-Law. I have tons of 150 Interlocks, so that bullet got the nod. With 4451, I found a load that is right at 3000 fps and shoots 1/4-1/2 moa, when my shooting cooperates. I get 2934 out of my .308 loads with the same bullet, so not a huge difference, really. The '06 gets to 3000 with a number of different powders, has great brass availability and works with many bullet weights. It is really hard to argue against that.

I was considering a re-barrel to something a bit more interesting (?), but I have decided to keep it as is for a bit and kill a few deer with it at least.

Are you a lefty?

Huzzah!

That guide sounds like a joke. From my limited experience, most guides seem unconcerned with what rifle or caliber you shoot and only really care how well you can hit with it. They tend to stray away from being rifle loonies like myself and many of us, and view guns as simple and boring tools to do the job.

You could call the .30-06 obsolete, or you could call it "classic, established, etc." Unlike the case of many of the WSSM shooters not even being able to find brass for their guns. My first center fire rifle was a .30-06, and is still my "go-to," though I did pick up a 6.5 Creedmoor last year to set up as a longer-range option.

Honestly the 6.5 only matches the .30-06 once you get out around 500-600 yards, and the Hornady Custom Lite 125gr .30-06 loads offer less recoil and the same energy and trajectory as the 6.5 does out to ~ 250 yards.

I have a bit more testing to do, but I believe those reduced recoil loads offer almost identical trajectory to a 180 gr Partition full-power load. Same MV and BC, grab the light option for deer, antelope, etc, and the heavy option for moose, elk, and bear, without having to touch the scope.

Quickload demo software won't install in the Windows virtual machine on the MAC I use for business. When I get back home tomorrow (Philly, PA, and Burbank, CA, this week) I'll try it on my real Windows system.

Interested to see what it thinks a 30-06 could do at 62Kpsi so we can have an apples to apples pressure comparison with the .308 Win.

Also interested some other scenarios:

1. My .257 Roberts with +P brass and 62Kpsi loads, a 4Kpsi over SAAMI MAP. (Not that I intend to change my +P loads - they work fine as-is, good reach with low recoil.)

2. My .280 Rem at 62,000 PSI.

3. For the fun of it, the Roberts, .280 Rem and .30-06 at 63Kpsi, 64Kpsi and 65Kpsi.



I mean, since nobody uses manufacturer load data these days...