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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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........................................... ........................................... ........................................... ........................................... The only absolute at a range is eye and ear protection - unless you're completely deaf or blind, or wish to be.
yada yada yada. Oh Really Mr.Steve - Don't you NEED a firearm ? Serious, Discriminating Rifle Loonys use a 'speed meter'. "I don't always use a chrono...... ...........but when I do, it's an Oehler !! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You're a fool, Jerry.
If you have something constructive to say, then say it. No need to act like a jackass.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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If you have something constructive to say, then say it. No need to act like a jackass.
Funny, that's what I was thinking as I read your post.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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[quote=Steve Redgwell] yada yada yada. Oh Really Mr.Steve - Don't you NEED a firearm ? I see I am going to have to spell it our for you. You really don't like to think on your own do you? No, you don't need a firearm because you could be out there watching, umpiring (judging) in competition or acting as a range officer. In these cases, you do not have a firearm, but will be at the range. Others will have theirs. It's obvious that you have never mentored anyone either. You could not have shown anyone who bought a chrono at their local gun shop and wanted to learn how to use it. Mentors help others learn. Helping them learn about their chrono, using their rifle. Serious, Discriminating Rifle Loonys use a 'speed meter'. "I don't always use a chrono...... ...........but when I do, it's an Oehler !! Jerry You did not read everyone's response in this thread. You also missed Dave Skinner's original post. He doesn't have one and wonders if it is worth the bother. Look in the mirror and ask yourself what the reason might for your lapses of courtesy and common sense.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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You're a fool, Jerry.
If you have something constructive to say, then say it. No need to act like a jackass. I'm a fool, too, I liked his post. I thought Canadians were supposed to be polite. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I thought everyone was supposed to be polite.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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True but Canadians unfailingly so. Its just how they are.
Is that racist?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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You're a fool, Jerry.
If you have something constructive to say, then say it. No need to act like a jackass. You're a fool, Jerry.
If you have something constructive to say, then say it. No need to act like a jackass. Yeah I agree, ol Jerry comes up with some real nonsense, I particularly liked his post about guns needing pressure point bedding because Remington can't screw a barrel in tight enough to stop it flopping around.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
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I used a chronograph for the very first time last week. My wife and little boy were nice enough to give it to me for a Christmas present. It was easier to set-up and use than I thought and I was surprised by the results. I was shooting factory ammo in my 204 Ruger, 221 Fireball, and 17 Remington. For example, I was shooting Fiocchi 32 and 40 grain V-max. The 32's should have been getting 4,125 fps while I managed 3,925 for an average. The 40's should be getting 3700 fps and I averaged 3789 fps. In my 17 Remington I tried the Remington 25 grain HP and the Nosler 20 grain HP. The Nosler showed I should be getting 4200 fps and I averaged 4226 fps. The Remington specs said 4040 fps, but I struggled to get 3859 fps and it was horribly inconsistent. Velocity spread was 133 fps and my groups were not great. Lots of vertical spread which I would have probably blamed on my shooting technique had I not been using the chronograph. In my 221 Fireball, both Nosler loads averaged just over 3200 fps with the 40 grainers as they should and I had some old Remington 50 grain PSP which clocked at 2939 fps. I wish I had used a chronograph before now.
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I've used one for years when working up a new load.
A friend often downplayed the need until I watched him 'splash' a 270 130 gr partition on a little hill country white tail's shoulder. He used my rifle and finished her off.
I happened to have my magnetospeed in the truck and when we got back to camp I had him fire 5 rounds over the MS. Results were that his handloaded 130 gr was running around 2400 fps instead of the 3000 or so it should have. Ran the rest over the MS and results were the same. Seems he found an accurate load and stopped.
He now has a MS and another chrono he got from Fleabay.
He also found an accurate load for his 130's that's much closer to 3000 fps as well.
Support your local Friends of NRA - supporting Youth Shooting Sports for more than 20 years.
Neither guns nor Liberals have a brain.
Whatever you do, Pay it Forward. - Kids are the future of the hunting and shooting world.
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Campfire Regular
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Essential? No. Critical? No. Useful? Yes. Do I use one? Yes.
I have an old crony that I've used for years and I'm planning to order a Magneto Speed this weekend.
ttpoz
in silvam ne ligna feras (don't carry logs into the forest)
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Campfire Regular
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Yes.
If you plan to load towards maximum loads, it becomes a necessity.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Or if you're loading for a wildcat without a lot of data, or if you're using one of the new powders without a lot of data, or.....
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
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An accurate chrono is very handy for certain things.. But, it will tell you one thing, and one thing only. Any additional derived data, learning and knowledge depends on the person applying that one thing.
I've seen/known of a number of "certain kills" on game that did not happen as expected. Can't think of one fundamentally caused by insufficient velocity.
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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Photo for demo purposes only. The 33 is no longer produced but IF I could ,I get another when I need it. Jerry How many of you guys are going to PAY $399.99 to Photobucket to RELAY your pix ? I AIN'T. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Jim in Idaho posted the following above.
"1. Worked up a good load in a .270 and .300 WM with RL-22, velocities were as expected for the charge weights used - which were not absolute max. After finishing up an 8 pound keg I bought another keg from a different lot. Using the exact same charge weight velocities were 200 fps faster - about 3300 for a 130 grain bullet in the .270. I have no idea what actual pressures were except that they were "really high". I had to back off several grains with that lot of powder to get back down to a reasonable velocity for the cartridges."
Jim I had the EXACT same thing happen to me back in the 80s. I was using H 4831 <before changes had begun to show up > I had been shooting 62 grs under 130s for a LONG time. WELL, well with ONE new lot my velocity jumped + fps. - the bolt was STIFF, I didn't have to beat on it but it took a lot of effort to lift.
I KEPT that lb - lot # 9 1 81. I plan to xperiment with it and REDUCE the charge to get back to 3100 fps, but haven't done it yet.
At the opposite of the end of spectrum. I had a LOT of a popular/respected BRAND of brass, also for 270. I LOST 200 fps in that BRASS alone.
W/O a chrono I'd have never known or figured out what the problems were.
Jerry Guys - Jim's experience and mine are sufficient evidence of the importance of a good chrono. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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All right, that's what I was hoping for. Chronos aren't expensive like they were when I started, and they're getting compact and convenient compared to the first monstrosities I saw hardcore shootniks use. I could care less if my loads are "fast," I just want a little bit more "read" and a few more hints as to whether I'm in the ballpark. For example, I have a BR and with the small primers and tight chamber, it does not do any of the usual "signs" except bolt lift. Laddering has served me pretty well over the years, I'm amazed more people don't do it, but I think I'm ready for another layer of data. Thanks to you all for your commentary and advice.
Pajamaboi loses EXPENSIVE in Georgia -- love it. Yep Dave, Chronos are very beneficial and informative. SINCE a decent graph can be had =/- $100.00 Doesn't make sense to NOT use one. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
All right, that's what I was hoping for. Chronos aren't expensive like they were when I started, and they're getting compact and convenient compared to the first monstrosities I saw hardcore shootniks use. I could care less if my loads are "fast," I just want a little bit more "read" and a few more hints as to whether I'm in the ballpark. For example, I have a BR and with the small primers and tight chamber, it does not do any of the usual "signs" except bolt lift. Laddering has served me pretty well over the years, I'm amazed more people don't do it, but I think I'm ready for another layer of data. Thanks to you all for your commentary and advice.
Pajamaboi loses EXPENSIVE in Georgia -- love it. Yep Dave, Chronos are very beneficial and informative. SINCE a decent graph can be had =/- $100.00 Doesn't make sense to NOT use one. Jerry + 1 ... or equal to ... + $100.00. I have a ProChrono and I'm totally satisfied with it.
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Campfire Regular
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For ~25 years I used a Shooting Chrony, this gave ball park velocities, and generally kept loads safe.
The past few years I've used a LabRadar, accuracy claimed to be 0.1%. This combined with QuickLoad assisted me in getting spot on barrel times, safe working pressures, the ability to tune a load to compensate for differing powder lots, throat erosion, plus other variables that effect pressure and therefore barrel time.
Internal and external ballistics are a math problem, to solve, you must start with an accurate velocity or all down stream equations are skewed.
This has really helped with load development and calculating external ballistic charts.
Generally 10 rounds will find a load that is best the rifle is capable of by the above methods.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Well, aside from the personality contretemps, this has been a productive thread. I am now officially "shopping."
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
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