Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters So, why have a forward pressure point on factory wood stocks?

My son has a nice 700 stainless fluted CDL in .257 weatherby. I have been telling him to ditch the stock and let's order a McM for it. He is starting to listen (he is 19 YO) to the old man. In the meantime, I am thinking about sanding off the pressure point on the forearm and see if that might improve accuracy. The gun shoots OK now BUT I know we can do better. Why is there a pressure point to start with? Short of bedding the factory wood stock, should I try to free float the barrel with a shim?

I'd float it with a shim first and if accuracy improves sand the points out and bed it. If it doesn't improve then you've not altered the stock.

A couple of chunks of credit card under the chamber usually work for me.

As noted above, start with just a shim under the lug area.
Also make sure that wood is still not touching the barrel anywhere.
If no improvements doing this, you have other issues.
If the box is not free to move a little, it may be adding a pressure point you do not want.
If the bolt is touching the stock when locked shut this is also a problem.
If none of this helps, a couple inches of bedding in front of the lug area may help.
If none of this has helped, add something to regain the pressure point at the end of the fore end.

Have you done any load development?
Tim

The pressure point is there because the threaded joint of barrel and receiver is not reliably rigid. The pressure point pre-stresses the barrel. It tends to reduce fliers.

As usual, harummph Mr. D is right.

However, OTOH, ISC some rifles or barrels shoot better 'free floated'. It seems to be individualistic, maybe a conundrum ?
(ISC = In Some Cases). BTW I don't think there is a hard n fast rule.

Jerry

As noted above pressure points TEND to reduce fliers.
Pressure points just don't work very often for me.
Some swear by them as the absolute fix. I am glad for them.

I am wondering what the OPs groups are that need to be improved.

I also would like to hear what the OPs actions and results are.

I'm not an engineer for a gun company, but have worked on a number of rifles with factory pressure points. I would say that 90 percent, maybe 95 over the years have improved (a LOT) with a good float and bed, sometimes just the float.
But for manufacturers, it's "safer" to pressure a point and settle for "okay."
The guns I worked on, most did better floated. But a few shot amazingly worse floated, while they shot "needs work, but tolerable" with the pressure point -- like in the 2 inch range that is okay for many shooters. But they were TERRIBLE floated. I had one Rem that went from a 2.5 incher to blowing 6 inch patterns no matter what was chambered. I did the card trick and re-did a pressure point, then it was a 1.5 MOA gun but the point of aim would change with environmental conditions. That rifle got sold soon after.
I still have another rifle, a military sort-of-collectible, that got the full monty bedding treatment. It finally shot, with full-length bedding and the stock otherwise sealed completely with either thick finish or epoxy.
With all that said, I would bet money that it is a risk calculation against profit that drives the decision to pressure the forearm. The odds going out the door is, if a gun is "acceptable," it won't be sent back. If it goes out floated and is terrible, back it comes. If it's only 5 percent, that's bad, when the "safe" option of a bed point only brings 1 percent back, if that.
There's another factor. If you float something, or change the rifle in any way, guess what? You've voided the warranty, officially. SOME companies, and I won't spill any beans, will work with you if you explain everything you did before calling them up. Most won't.

That all said, unless you have a flyweight barrel, careful, orderly floating and/or bedding almost always improves grouping and consistency. If it doesn't, there's something fundamentally wrong.

If I am going to shim, I am going to put it right where the screw goes through it. Putting it anywhere else will leave space under the bottom of the action, which will force the action to bend when the screw is tightened and it is pulled down.

Unless you know what you are doing with the original wood stock, I`ve done many, float, pillar bed etc, save your self time and trouble. Get the McM or H-S Precision. They will be stable for life, and you can enjoy the rifle.

I think "reliably" is the key word, you'd expect a properly fitted and assembled barrel/receiver to be plenty rigid. Past that I think the pre-stressing against the stock provides dampening to somewhat suppress (statistical ) variations in barrel vibration which can come from any number of things. May be helpful, maybe not, depending. Since manufactures build and test fire gazillions of rifles I suspect it helps more than not for mass produced rifles.

So I think we're saying essentially the same thing in different ways.

(Just felt compelled to stick statistics into the mix. )

To answer a few questions; we are getting about 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, sometimes 1". I have not done a lot of load work. We are currently shooting 110 gr NAB's and a max charge of r22. I think his velocity is 3400 fps. The mag box is free. I do think heat has been an issue when sighting in. I would like to see consistency in the groups. I have a 1965 6mm rem with a factory wood stock that has been bedded. I can shoot that rifle until it gets VERY hot and it will drop bullets into less than an inch all the time.

I'vew often thought (just speculation on my part) that this issue may have to do with whether the (internal) receiver threads are square to the face of the receiver and/or the (external) threads on the barrel shank are square to the face of the shoulder of the shank. If a square condition exists with both parts, the shoulder of the barrel shank snugs up all the way around where it meets the face of the receiver, the barrel is going be pretty stable, and the more free-floated the better. If an out of square condition exists, it can create a "whipping" effect that can be stabilized by some fore end tip pressure. My guess is, this would not tend to resist thermally-induced point of impact change as much as having everything square to begin with. I think these same dynamics can exist as a result of a lack of concentricity between the OD of the barrel and the bore diameter. As I said, just speculating.

Good post Dave. I'd say, another factor is that it's really quick and cheap to slap a pressure point in the forearm (vs. bedding it right) and it improves most rifles going out the door.

Sakoluvr, I'd talk with MR. Gadget. He can have that wooden stock bedded, and your rifle shooting accurately in no time flat.

TFF I will tell him you sent me.

Even if a pressure point improves group size on the bench, it will introduce POI shift from field positions as the stock flexes in different ways and this in turn flexes the barrel-action joint.

There is no substitute for correct free floating.

I have a new CDL in 25/06.It shot O.K., just O.K.--1 1/2" @ 100 yards. I had the action glassed, no improvement, next had it pillar bedded. Still no noticeable improvement, before any of this was done I had replaced the trigger, with a Rifle Basic trigger. I finally replaced the barrel with a Lija, same contour as the factory barrel . Now it shoots like it should have in the first place.---1/2 to 3/4 " Now my $850.00 Remington has an additional $910.00 worth of improvements in it.----Oh well, it's only money.

I float the barrel and glass bed the action on all my wood stocked 700s. I've never had a problem getting hunting accuracy (inch and a quarter or under for me) with bullets I want to hunt with using this method.

Don't have any rifle that's bedded with fore end pressure. Many are glass bedded, several are just in the wood stock but the action screws are tightened correctly. (Not "farmer tight", JB.) All also have relatively even contact on the bolt lugs, too. My 700 Classic in .300 Savage shot 2" and larger groups out of the box. Barrel floated, action bedded, and lugs lapped gave consistent sub-inch groups with the same loads. The bolt had one lug bearing firmly and the other with the tiniest skim of contact. That made a big difference, once it was lapped. Maybe should have checked it first, but I'm happy with the over all results.

The one rifle I do have that has fore-end pressure is giving me fits on load development. I'm taking a round rasp to the barrel channel.

Muledeer offered this tip awhile back. For shims, use the plastic clips that come on bread bags .They have a hole in them that the screw can go thru and are about the same thickness as credit card.Take 3-4 to the range. I know a few guys that have shimmed their rifle and then never did anything else to it..
Whatever is done, make sure you fire 4-5 rounds thru your rifle BEFORE deciding if accuracy improved or got worse ,so you can settle the action in the stock. Then recheck you action screws

I had a Swedish Mauser military rifle that had way too much space between the receiver at the recoil lug and the issue stock, putting excessive up-pressure on the barrel. I didn't want to glass bed it or permanently alter the stock. I made shims from pieces of refrigerator magnet advertisements. They don't shift around under the receiver, and they're easy to cut with that pair of scissors on your bench that you use for such cutting chores. They could be made even less prone to shift by drilling a hold through them for the guard screw.

Good advice, but it may be worth checking the scope mounts and bases, as they can be loose enough to throw a shot yet appear tight.
If all the above fails, I would change the scope and if that fails, bed the action and get someone else to shoot the rifle.

Had seven Remingtons, all got free floated, some bedded actions, most just the lug.
Buddies have had as many or more.
One had a VS in .22-250 that liked forend pressure.
To the point now, I don't even test em "as is".
First thing I do is remove the pressure point.

+1

I remember a 700 in 223 with the triangle barrel. It shot poorly. I did MD's shim trick, stacked them DEEP, actually had to go buy some longer action screws. The POA shifted eight inches down, and groups went from 2 inches with a tailwind to 3/4 just like THAT. Then the chase began, I ended up needing to build a clamping jig so I could heat and bend the stock. It was not a pleasant exercise and, while a success, I will NEVER try that again. Lesson learned.

Well, I had campfire's own Redneck pillar bed and free float the barrel for me. It was not only a well executed job, but it shrank the groups a solid 1/2" What stood out even more was the ability to keep groups with a warm/hot barrel. In the past, groups would start opening up on the 4th shot. After the free float, we were able to keep 5 shot groups consistent. It was definitely worth doing. Now I have the confidence to tweak loads knowing what the rifle is capable of. BTW, Redneck was a pleasure to deal with. Thanks again Lee.

You're very welcome sir.. FWIW, I hate 'pressure points', especially on any wood stock.. IMHO they create mucho more problems than they cure..

Best wishes...

Years ago I read an article, probably in Gun Digest, that said any 700 could be improved by one swivel swipe to the pressure point, to make a "V" shape.

Another person asked. What about the loads? Before I did all this I would have tried variou loads and bullets. You probably have if you are making this much of an effort.

I am sorta new to loading for rifles. I can't believe how much different the powder and bullet make. I now have a batch where I am loading longer, that I am waiting to try. So far all my loads have been to book lengths.

It has realy surpised me, how one rifle likes partition, the other interlock. Same powder, very similar bullet designs. Or how a couple grains can make a huge difference. 1.5" just seems like big on factory gun, speaking from my bowels.

There is a problem with pressure points on a wooden stock. Over time the pressure causes the wood to relax. When this happens the pressure point is just rubbing the barrel causing problems. Then more shims need to be added to regain wanted pressure. Hasbeen

I think MD said they are there to give people something to jack around with. I have seen rifles go both ways or not change at all floated compared to PP. Most cases floated works better and less likely to have POI shifts from slings or different rests or holds but if not easy enough to add a PP.