Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .38 Snake Shot Loads

I've done the gas check loads for a 41 mag and they work very well on snakes. And a grouse or two.

last snake I killed was this past November. BIG moccasin. Single shot from a Model 19, at 15 yards or so. All she wrote.

3 things to add here:

- The Speer loaded shotshells are about as good as you can get in 38 for a shot capsule load; you'll be hard pressed to find a handload as good or better with those shot capsules.

- The Speer semi-auto 40 S&W and 45 ACP shotshells perform better than anything else on the market in this category; I experimented with shot capsules in revolvers a bunch and never found anything that worked as well as the semi-auto loads (which do not use capsules).

- My best revolver shotshell performance was always with long brass, card over-shot wads (cut from primer boxes), and some sort of shot cup. In 44 and 45, shortened .410 shot cups work well. In smaller bores, you can make shot cups from something like Tyvek (priority mail envelopes for example) rolled up around an appropriate round dowel or pen. Any sort of hard over-shot wad, like a gas check or round ball, tends to blow the shot pattern in a donut shape with a big hole in the middle, not very useful. Thin card wads work better, but require a very large roll crimp to hold them in place.
If you figure out a method to use long brass (like 357 Max, but at least 357 Mag) necked down to fit the cylinder, you can get a much larger shot charge and better patterns.

The shot shells are the child when you are near things you would hot want to shoot. A ricochet #9 wouldn't even break a window a some yards away. Caution must be observed, but snake shooting is a where they are, when they are there, kinda thing. Some may not have many rocks, here, many places have some dirt between the rocks.

You're a better man than me, I swatted a copper head with the tractor bucket out in the field a couple weeks ago ;]

Since I am currently unable to find a source for the .38/.357 Speer shot capsules, I am thinking about getting some .357 Maximum brass (this will be for a .357 mag. pistol) and seating a gas check over the powder charge. Then adding some #11 shot (Midway has it) over that and topping it with either an inverted gas check and using a roll crimp or maybe a cut cardboard or cork wad with some silicone caulk to seal it. What are y'alls thoughts about this? Is there any need for some sort of shot cup if I do it this way with the gas check over the powder charge? I heard someone suggest that using an inverted gas check on top of the shot charge instead of a thin wad would create a doughnut shape shot pattern. Any thoughts about this?

IDK, I always thought the doughnut shape patterns came from the rifling spin. Make a few and tested them. But if I was doing it I would use something like milk carton, top and bottom and then a little hot glue.

So, no real need for a shot cup as long as there is a wad of some sort between the powder and shot and some sort of top cover such as another wad, inverted gas check, silicone caulk, etc.?

i have found it takes an average of six rounds to do the job, starting at the head and working back.
then six more, starting at the rattles and working forward.

Yes. Did you read my post above?

A gas check will blow donut holes in your shot patterns, thin card wads are much better. Donut patterns are not caused necessarily by rifling, they're caused by hard objects at the front of the shot column (gas check or round ball) and by using bare shot against the rifling without a shot cup.

Shot cups improve the pattern significantly. Using a shot cup or not doesn't have anything to do with how you seal the shot in the case, but you can get much better shotshell performance following the tips I shared above.

If you're using long brass (like 357 Max in a 357 Mag cylinder) you'll need to neck down the front portion of the brass to bullet diameter or smaller to fit the chamber. Like this pic below (it's a 460 S&W using 444 Marlin brass, but same idea and reasoning):





Those shotshells do this at 10 yards from a 6" 460 S&W revolver. No donut patterns, and this pattern is very repeatable. The pattern pictured is from one shot, not multiple rounds:

Never screwed around with patterns. With the 44 I can't remember ever shooting twice. Many snakes I should have not killed, to some fair size timber rattlers, 10 feet or closer aim a little behind the head,.....good snake.

Yes, I see your point about not using an inverted gas check on top of the shot. I can see where the card top would be better. As to the shot cup, any ideas? If I were doing this with a .44 or .45 it would be easy enough to use .410 shot cups. However, I'm trying to do this with a .357. I tried a milkshake sized straw in a .357 case, but it was too large and a regular size straw is way too small. I wonder how much difference it really makes to use one? Maybe I should scrap the idea of doing this and wait until some Speer capsules are again available? I confess that I am intrigued with the idea of making some all brass cases from .357 maximum, though. Maybe I should use this as an excuse, er... reason, to get a S&W M-69 in .44 Mag.? :-)

The speer capsules are pitiful in comparison to a shot shell loaded the way I pictured above. I have tried a lot to make them work well, and never got results anywhere close to that pattern above, with any caliber, not to mention the reliability problems as someone mentioned above.

Just experiment with various materials for shot cups, but the first thing I'd try is the Tyvek-type material that those slick-feeling Priority mail envelopes are made from (not the cardboard versions). Wrap it around the appropriate size dowel, pen, pencil, etc, and fold/glue the base closed. You could even try notebook paper; the goal is to find something that will hold the shot in a secure column without scraping and rolling it against the bore & rifling.

As posted above, the easy way to good shotshells is just buy .40 or .45 ACP Speer shot loads and be done with it. The patterns with these are especially good in polygonal Glock barrels and in the shallow rifling of some older 1911 barrels. That solution may be too easy though, and I do understand the desire to make your own.

I did a similar thing with 45-70 shot shells. I took a.410 shot cup, cut the end off. By wrapping a single layer of a 3x5 card around it,it fit perfectly in a 45-70 case. Filled the cup up with #9 shot.I topped it off with a piece of 1/8" cork. Crimped it slightly and dripped some candle wax on it.

Worked great on grouse during elk season when they were in season. Of course a 2&1/2" .410 shotgun shell works too.

I'm not saying all the suggestion given won't work,but one has got too remember that as bad as some folks make out the two gas check method is, they were being used way before plastic shot capsules hit the market and they worked. Sort of like 148 gr hollow based wad cutters loaded up side down was considered a great self defense load in a 38 or .357,before all these fancy do everything bullets hit the marker

Did a little experimenting in the garage. I discovered that an empty .223 case makes a good form for wrapping a 1 1/2 inch piece of Tyvek around to make a shot cup. After wrapping the Tyvek around it, I gave the Tyvek edges a modest swipe with a glue stick to hold it together. Folded one end closed and glued it. Should be able to seat this onto a card wad over the powder charge and fill with shot, top with a card wad, and crimp. All I have to do now is get the proper brass and shot.

How many do you plan to make? I bought 5 lbs of 12 shot years sgo. I could send you a few ounces, and some tablet backer.

PM sent to SRM. Thanks!

Nice, #12 shot is the way to go for this stuff, especially in the smaller capacity cases.

Gawd, i hate those darn things. I will go out of my way to kill one if I see it.

For those looking for 12 shot, ballistic products is the p Place to go.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/