Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Over bulleting your deer rifle???

I've been waiting for that !

I like TWO (2) holes for the reasons stated.

Jerry

I think a lot of hunters got all hung up on bullet weight retention, premium bullets, etc... That stuff is golden on Big Game, but deer?

Conventional cup & core at "normal" velocity works great! I prefer a "softer" bullet that expands readily for deer. The Nosler Ballistic Tip, Berger VLD are my favorite deer bullets.

Guy

About any standard bullet that won't fragment will kill any deer. Skip the premiums and spend the savings on more bullets and practicing. That'll kill far more deer than high $ bullets.

Deer meat for most tends to be "over" expensive to the extreme. The extra expensive of a premium, if one chooses to use one adds little to the cost per pound.

A .308W with 130 TTSX is about perfect for your one bullet kill anything.

Thanks, I should have been more clear in my initial post, cost isn't an issue. I was really concerned with unexpanding bullets poking holes clear through animals due to their construction/ my velocity not being enough to get them to open. I'm going to follow the 110-130gr TTSX advise given many times on this forum, my back of the napkin math has the 110's flying out of my 18" kimber adirondack at 3300-3400fps and the 130's flying at 3000-3100. probably add a 100 FPS if I screw on the suppressor.

plenty of good anecdotes with those combos all over the web, might even try loading the 110's in 300 BLK for the kiddos, I think I could get them up to 2400 or so. I've always been a heavy for caliber guy, the advice of dropping weight and adding speed with the Mono's is a new way for me to think, but I'm excited to try it out!

While I accept your per pound analogy, I am of the mind that one should do what you can to economize. As it is, buying premium bullets in the 50-lot for more than a standard C&C bullet costs in a 100-lot seems to be worth questioning. That is, unless there is a meaningful difference.

Obviously, there are people on this thread that are of the belief that a premium Barnes bullet is better. I admit, I have never launched such a projectile at a deer, so I speak from ignorance.

The average shot on a whitetail is about 80 yards. Our camp's average is somewhat above that. Our normal working range is within 150 yards. Our average range is just under 74 yards. We shoot a mix of .308 chamberings. I shoot .308 WIN and 30-06. My sons shoot 30-06 and 7.62X54R. My one buddy was shooting a 300 Win Mag for a while and went back to 30-06. We shoot a mix of Hornady IL SP's and Rem Corelokts in the 150-165 variety.

My question is for those who are experienced with the Barnes offerings: Exactly what improvements would we expect if we went to Barnes? How much deader would the deer be?

For me, there is the matter of quality-of-deadness. Since I am a semi-public individual who writes frequently of my exploits, I need a special something that the Barnes product just does not have. I covered this back in 2009:

In the Shamanic Reloading Cave



As to the environmental concerns mentioned by the OP:

I'd wonder if copper is all that more environmentally friendly than lead. More and more, I'm resorting to bullets from cast lead made from range scrap. This is recycling, and as such, I'm helping the planet in my own way. If you really want to delve into whether copper or lead is worse, you have to look clear back to the mining. I'm not sure a pit mine that extracts copper is any more friendly to the planet than one that digs up lead. I'm not sure. Help me out. Either way, if I was truly worried about it, I'd buy offsetting carbon credit to salve my conscience and so folks would still think I was hip. I might also think about limiting myself to only shooting deer that wandered past my bedroom window so that I could limit my carbon footprint by minimizing transportation and shooting over only licks that were made with solar sea salt.

I'm just saying.

Three times I've had a Barnes go lengthwise on a Deer. Once each with a .22-250, .338Fed and a .308W. Have caught two. Once with a .223AI that went down the spine and a .308W that again traveled down the spine a ways. The rest have passed thru on shoulder and lower shots. Barnes and the like are extra insurance. Side to side, I've also had the recent NBT's and Accubonds normally give two holes. They have a proven track record on Deer and bigger. Still, the Barnes should on most occasions dig deeper if the situation presents that it is needed or wished for. Which is the meaningful difference. I use them all, but if I had to bet on reliability of meeting their standard, I would bet on Barnes.

Yes, I've done a Texas Heart Shot, rather accidental I might add, with a Rem Corelokt and had similar results. I've also had a 165 grainer Hornady go end-to-end from the brisket back.

However, I'm sure there's more to it. I mean Barnes couldn't make a profit by saying "2 of every 3 ass shooters prefer the TTSX"

That funny!!!! But since I'm not adverse to going from back to front, I'd be one of the two.

I really like the way this conversation is going. I think we've finally gotten to the nub of the issue: Copper Bullets really are for the folks who want to send it where the sun never shines!


So what about us fellas that prefer a through-the-ribs-and-out-through-the-far-side kind of approach?

Copper bullets are for those that don't want everything blown to sheit, don't want to chew on shrapnel but do want bullets that work when everything is wrong, not when everything is right.

Is that more of the ignorance you were talking about that you wear like a badge of honor?

You normally will not need them. Have to make that second shot on a runner going away? You may wish you had them. It's almost always about odds.

I'd be the last to think of my ignorance as a badge of honor, sir. I'd also be the first to admit that I am still a student in these arts despite 35 seasons' experience.

I'm just asking is all. What benefits have you seen?

The benefit(s) have already been posted. More than once.

I'm tending to agree with you at this point.

Alas.

Since you are looking for the negatives:

On average I've seen smaller exit holes, less blood on exit. However, opposite to what most see, I have had them go down quicker with copper than c-c. Most see the opposite. I would think the reason being I normally try to break shoulders. The sunny side if available. If not, the other.

I think that the copper argument is mute, when applied to deer. For bigger game, they are possibly an advantage, but any bullet will kill deer pretty well. Lots are even using target bullets. I have used Barnes a bit, but never found them to be a game changer and have had rifles that were pickier with them, also. I have always used Hornady Interlocks etc. for deer and never been left wanting, OR thought that they destroyed an excessive amount of meat.

The meat destruction is a non-starter with me. First, there is not that much meat in the shoulders and I have rarely not been able to salvage at least some of it. Second, if you shoot them through the lungs, it is a non-issue. If you shoot them through the hind quarters, then it is not the bullet's fault, it is YOURS. As far as lead consumption, I think that is just more environmental bs. In all of my years, I have never heard of ONE person that had health issues because of a small bit of lead in the meat they eat. If you eat beef, you probably get more poison from the meds in it, than with a bit of lead in wild meat.

Shoot what you want. That is called freedom to choose, but the real argument for superiority is only for discussion. In reality it does not exist.

A Frame, North fork or Partition

Your deer are tougher than mine.