Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre-64 Super Grade Featherweight?

I have this one on hold and know the pad is not original,

Thoughts?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...el-70-featherweight.cfm?gun_id=100878313

Wonder whats on the floor plate?

The floor plate is marked super grade according to the shop it was a one-owner rifle by a guy who used to work there.

The shop claims the rifle is all original and that the pad is an original Winchester pad that was most likely fitted at the factory.

Shop claims they instructed a young employee to put it on the internet at 3995 he screwed up and put it on the internet at 2k, which they will honor.

Shop claims the rifle is a right Winchester all original.

Want to know what some of the Winchester guru's on here think I don't think I can go wrong at 2K

I concur with your opinion that you cannot go wrong at $2K. The pad looks thin for a Winchester pad, have you seen back of the pad? Thinking it may be a 3/4" Pachmyer rifle pad.

No brainer @2K for a .270. What is the worst it could be? Even if it is a put together you could not get hurt.

I am no expert, but the stock worries me. One of the things I never liked about the Super Grade Monte Carlo stocks was that the end of the cheek rest did not align with the "bump" of the Monte Carlo (see Rule p. 167.) On the rifle in question, the end of the cheek rest and the Monte Carlo do align very nicely. I like the look, but I wonder if this is correct? Having said that, if you look at Rule p. 168, there are two Africans that are not terribly consistent with each other. On p. 170 there is another picture where the angle is not the best, but it seems the two do not align. Other examples can be found on p. 78, 79, 86, 243, 262, 275. This rifle may be worth the $2K, but the stock still worries me.

Gun shop said that the pad is marked Winchester (IIRC, it was a lengthy conversation) and that they stand by the fact that the rifle is an original a super grade featherweight.

For what it's worth.

GunDoc, Thanks for that I'm actually on vacation and not in front of my copy of Rule

in pic #7, looks like a vice mark on the bbl. also, looks like the stock has been bedded. see if they will take it out of the stock & see if the bbl is marked super & look at the inside of stock. still for $2k for a 270 is pretty good.

Good eye and good suggestion. I will add that the stock looks like it's been refinished too. I'm with gundoc on this one, the stock is worrysome.. Is it worth $2,000.00? Well, I always get a little leery when I see a supergrade 270 fwt in any condition. They are rare birds and without more info, I'd be more than a little leery. If you are looking for a good shooter grade, this is your huckleberry. ....

GunDoc, Thanks for that I'm actually on vacation and not in front of my copy of Rule[/quote]

nyrifleman, you are very welcome. I am happy to contribute here where I have learned so much and been treated so well. I am not very good at posting pics. Perhaps we could implore someone who is (cough, BSA ) to post one or two from the pages of Rule that I mention.

Let me also say that we have some SHARP eyes around here!: BSA and especially Prewar375 on the vice mark and bedding.

I am reasonably comfortable commenting on what I see. I am less comfortable when suggesting to someone else how to spend their money. $2k seems a reasonable enough price, but I would have balked at $4k and the claims made about all original and correct. There may be someone here who can allay my concerns about the originality of the stock. The parts may indeed be original, but it seems more and more clear that the rifle was at the very least lightly worked on, if not more.
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I'd argue that you COULD go wrong at $2k.

A standard grade 270 Fwt is a semi-scarce gun. Used, but nmolested, they are worth $1200-$1500. I hate to be a cynic, but in all likelihood, this is a standard Fwt rifle with a modified stock and SG bottom metal. You would need to pull the rifle apart to confirm otherwise, but the scarcity of SG Fwt rifles is such that there are far more fakes out there than genuine articles. Because of this, collectors regard them all as guilty until proven innocent.

I recommend asking the seller to pull it apart and have them send you detailed photos of the stamps under the barrel, as well as the inletting and checkering of the stock. If it is all genuine, then I agree: you can't go wrong at $2k.

Good luck!

Justin

I'd agree with the above observations, but if it was me I wouldn't worry, I'd buy the gun and hunt the heck out of it. I've seen regular .270 fwts' in that condition sell for $1500+, it's a great looking rifle and unless your plan is to buy it and put it away for many years to come, not a bad price..

I'd pass on the gun....

"Gun shop said that the pad is marked Winchester (IIRC, it was a lengthy conversation) and that they stand by the fact that the rifle is an original a super grade featherweight"

Then if the price is good, buy it. Then if it proves false, go after the shop for fraud.

A typical gun shop is not going to let themselves be held liable for guaranteeing the authenticity of a rare rifle. What they say in an email is of little consequence if the sales contract has boilerplate "as-is, where-is, no express or implied guarantees" language. Going after them for fraud on the basis of an email, when a subsequent purchase agreement you have entered into includes tried and proven small print which releases the seller from any liability or ongoing obligation is unrealistic. This is why it is important to verify what you are buying before you buy it.

There are a few obvious problems with this rifle:

1. Despite what the seller says, the recoil pad is not original. No pad of that style was available on any type-3 model 70.

2. The stock has been refinished.

3. The stock has been bedded.

4. There is evidence of what looks like barrel replacement by someone not equipped to do the work.

Because SG Fwt rifles are so extremely rare, I'd be very concerned that this is one of the many fakes out there floating around. I know the owner told the gun shop a nice story that sounds believable. Of course, people who make up fake rifles also make up fake stories to go along with the fake rifles they peddle - those two things go part and parcel. This is why pulling the rifle apart to verify its authenticity is important. Even if it is genuine, the issues described above make a significant dent in any collector value.

I'm going with this. Way too many "ifs" in market known for fakes, especially Super Grades.

That's a Super Grade stock, all right. However, the stock's been bedded, the back end of the Monte Carlo comb has definitely been modified, and the wood has been refinished. Not sure about the pad. Despite all that, I'd agree that a SG/FW for $2k is probably not a bad deal - but there's obviously no guarantee it's a genuine SG.

Do any of the Guru's have any comments on my observations about the back edge of the cheek rest and the Monte Carlo? Unless someone has knowledge I do not (which is entirely possible, I don't claim to be an expert), I believe that is not an original stock or it has been altered so that the cheek rest and the Monte Carlo line up. Rule talked about variations in fore end profile, pistol grip radius, and details about the shape of the end of the pistol grip. He also discusses Super Grade cheek rests and diamond shapes around the fore end screw on standard barrel Supers. Would he miss variations on the cheek rest that I describe? Possibly, but it seems unlikely to me.

I agree with the comments about the SG Monte Carlo cheek comb.

There is plenty of variation in SG stocks, but this link shows what they typically look like: https://goo.gl/images/Hp5QHG

It also shows what the recoil pad should look like.