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#6365737 - 04/03/12 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: Dirtfarmer]  
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writing_frog Offline
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France

About the 73 replica strongness: some years ago while practicing with a friend on shooting range, came another guy we knew, member of french and US CAS chapter.

He showed us is new buy, an original 73 rifle in 44WCF. Finding a place on the range he began to shoot, trying to hammer steel gongs.
All his shots were high. The noise was thundering, the speed looked "speedy" and the impact in the berm was closer to big bore gun than 44WCF.
After 25 cartridges we came to look WTF was going on.

Not too much trained in reloading and assuming the large case capacity our "stuntman friend" was shooting 44WCF loaded with spherical powder close to H110, to the 44mag power level with 200grs lead bullets.

We stopped him immediatly, scanning the old rifle for breakage. Nothing to note, no play, no crack, nothing, except strong leading.

So, not to promote such dumbness i think 73 in good shape are far more stronger than we commonly think.

Normaly with the better steel used today, the closer tolerances of manufacture and the slight modifications any modern 73 repro of good quality like the Uberti, can be used safely with the more powerful CAS loads and even a bit more if you need it.

Dom



Experience is a lantern, carried in our back, only lightening already walked path. (Confucius)
CMG 300 BP

#6375515 - 04/05/12 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: writing_frog]  
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Dirtfarmer Online content
Campfire Kahuna
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Central Louisiana
Yeah, Dom.

Just cause they got away with it for a while doesn't make it a real smart idea. There are just too many better choices than to hot rod an old classic, or a clone for that matter.

The way the gun is made with toggle links, I don't think it would be pretty when it finally did give it up.

It's quite amazing how CAS has caught on in Europe. I think that's really neat.

DF

#11417732 - 09/04/16 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: Dan_Chamberlain]  
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30Gibbs Offline
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Central Calif. Coast
Originally Posted by Dan_Chamberlain
I have an 'Iron' framed Henry in .44-40 and I'm here to tell you, keeping the loads in the black powder power level does not in any way detract from the shooting fun of these guns! They are accurate and if'n I was to find myself in the presence of a wild hog or deer out to 50 yards, I'd feel well armed. My load fires a 210 grain cast bullet at 1200fps and it slams the steel plates off the pedestal with enough authority to suggest we aren't losing anything in the long run.

Dan


This, and I load this level in a vintage 1892. You gain nothing in effectiveness by loading hotter. For a while we loaded warmer 200 jacketed loads for the Rossi 1892 for hunting.
It was not worth it.

#11419428 - 09/05/16 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: tex_n_cal]  
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1minute Offline
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I'd never approach Ruger #1 loads with any lever action ever made.


1Minute
#11546038 - 11/01/16 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: tex_n_cal]  
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JoeBob Online content
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The 92 is a shorter and actually stronger version of the 1886. If you wanted, you could safely run it pretty close to modern bolt gun pressures. I'd be more worried about the brass than the gun. It is strong.

That said, why? But if the point is a hot 45 Colt then get a modern 92.

Alpha

#12070281 - 06/03/17 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: tex_n_cal]  
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CarlsenHighway Offline
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Port Chalmers, New Zealand
Both Uberti and Winchester chamber their model 73 in .44 Magnum. The modern 73's can handle factory .44 magnum pressures. This is a far cry from black powder .44 wcf pressures.

As for the 73 being a weak design, I think a lot of people just looked at it and thought that looks weak. Actual testing by Winchester on the '76 (same design) showed that they could not destroy a receiver with tremendous amounts of powder and several bullets in the bore. Eventuallu the barrel burst in front of the chamber. The receiver was unharmed, even the smaller pins etc. Testing on a '73 was done, to the point of removing a togg;e link and firin it, and the rifle handled it fine. Removing both toggle links resulted in the action partly opening on firing but no more.
The design itself is stronger than people think.


"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
#12131085 - 07/06/17 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: tex_n_cal]  
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rogn Offline
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ES of MD more of the RED PART ...
The Rossi '92 despite not being the finest machined weapon of modern times is really very stout. Rossi produced them in 454 Casul which operates some loads at 60000 PSI. This is the type of pressure seen in things like the WSMs in bolt guns. I dont think they produce them anymore due to company changes. That and recoil in a <5# carbine with a bitty cresent buttplate is really to be experienced. The fierce recoil also causes problems with the magazine tube which is normally held in place by friction and a shallow lot receiving a cross screw and the tip of the cap screw into a dimple in the barrel. Recoil really shakes that apart.
One of these slicked up can be competitive in CAS, but the '73 is still king.


precision is group shooting, accuracy is hitting your intended target.
#12277227 - 09/17/17 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: rogn]  
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Dirtfarmer Online content
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna

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Central Louisiana
Rossi '92's can be a bit rough out of the box.

If I was going to get one, I'd buy it from Steve Jones, the '92 guru. Steve's price is basically wholesale plus his work, which is cheaper than buying the gun, then sending it to him.

One of his '92's is a heap slicker than one out of the box.

The '92, as mentioned earlier, is super strong, thus you see the 454 Casul chambering. That doesn't mean I want to shoot a light weight Rossi '92 with full house Casul loads. Just 'cause it can doen't mean I want to... wink

Steve's link. http://stevesgunz.com/

He did work for me on a 1910 '92. I've seen him at CAS matches.

DF

#12408594 - 11/19/17 Re: How strong are modern made steel 1873 copies? [Re: tex_n_cal]  
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victory06 Offline
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midwest
Last year I hunted deer exclusively with a Uberti '73 in a .45 Colt; not because I didn't have other deer rifles, but because it was so much fun to shoot and was more accurate than its design suggested it ought to be! I shot two deer, both does; one big and one small with a "home cast" 255gr lead bullet (an added benny). I had complete penetration and anchored both within 10 yards of the shot (fat "meplat"). One was shot at about 65 yards and the other about 50.
I believe that "noted", writer/rancher, Brian Pearce has done a fair amount of research on the strength of the '73 action and has corresponded several times with Uberti's "tech department" on the design, improvements, and testing regarding .357, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt criteria and limits to give highly "credible" advice on "maximum" pressures when loading. He has stated (paraphrasing) that although Uberti markets a .44 mag '73 with factory pressures much higher than recommended for other calibers in that model, it has different steels in "critical" stress areas not present in .44WCF (44/40), .357, or .45 Colt models. With that said, he considers Ken Water's "Pet Loads Level II" for .45 Colt pistols the maximum pressure level for this design, which is about 2500PSI more than the old "Black Power" Level I loads. Considering that most '73's have considerably longer barrels than that used on most pistols, I find that my own 20" barrel will launch a 250 or 255gr lead or jacketed bullet at between 1200 and 1300fps with loads listed for Colt pistol, not Rugers and T/C Contenders. If I use Brian's criteria, I can safely reach 1400fps without much difficulty, although not needed, and find the most difficult reloading criteria is Cartridge Overall Length to work well in the short action of the '73. The 255gr SWC is bigger (wider), heavier, and as fast as a 240gr "pill" out of a .44 Mag ; and since we see many "pistoleros" declare this combination deadly on game much larger than our average Whitetail deer that should be sufficient for most hunting in the "bush". IMHO, there is no reason to try and make the "old" Colt round into a .454, I've done that in a Marlin and when you reach the "max juice" (mine was 1550fps with a 300gr cast bullet) neither trajectory or accuracy was greatly improved over normal hunting distance. This experiment, which turned a mild round into a "mini" 45/70 made a fun shooter a different "animal" altogether. If you want a fun deer and hog gun that will work about as far as you can accurately shoot with iron sights, and is one of the "slickest" actions ever made, the 73 may just be your "Huckleberry" (an apt metaphor by another aficionado of the Tombstone kind on this post).

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