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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,003
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,003 |
I have taken elk/deer with both the 338 Win, 35 Whelen and a few different 300's. With great bullets I haven't seen anything that shows me the 338 does any better than the 300's. Saying that, I love the 338, but honestly I really like the 338 with the 200/210 class of bullets. Don't gain a darned thing over a 300 with a 200, but it does work well and usually whomps elk pretty hard. Going to try the 210 Swift's this year in my 338, just to try something a little different. Scotty, I'm with you and our buddy gunner on this one. I don't think there's a hill of beans difference between a good 300 magnum running 200gr. partitions and a 338wm running a good 210,225 or even 250gr pill. Those bullets are just going to plow through elk, stem to stern and hammer the fu ck out of them. However, I'm like you and love my 338wm. It's accurate, it's light, it's reliable and well balanced and easy to carry. If you can shoot a big rifle well, there's no reason not to use it. Pick either one, stuff it with partitions and you'll be golden.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,262
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,262 |
There is no real difference between the two.
If you want to see a bit of a difference, up the velocity of the 33 to 340 Wby or better yet 338 RUM or Lapua.
But who the hell would want to pack something shootable in any of those on an elk mountain?
Pass the 308 Win or, 30-06, or 270...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018 |
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/shooting-tips/shooting_tips_rs_essentialrifle_200808/ "The PHs and I are in total agreement: The best all-around choice for African hunting is a .375. Okay, but “all-around” is a general term,
and if there’s no dangerous game on the menu, I am convinced that the vast majority of African plains game are best and most
easily taken with a hunter’s favorite deer cartridge, be it a .270, a 7mm or a .30 caliber.
Yes, I know, African game has the legend of being extra-tough. Mostly this is hogwash. Animals such as wildebeest are tougher than others,
and some such as zebra can be both bigger and tougher. But there is no African antelope, pig or equine that will not succumb to a
well-placed, well-constructed bullet from any of these calibers.
The eland is a special case because it’s more than twice the size of any other antelope. A big bull of any of the several races can weigh as
much as a ton. I believe in a .375 for eland, but if you’ve read any of my stuff you know I’m a heavy-caliber, heavy-bullet sort of guy.
Honestly, even for eland you don’t need a .375. Perhaps a better and more versatile choice would be any of the fast .33s, a fast 8mm
(.325 WSM or 8mm Remington Magnum) or a fast .35 if you can find one (like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan).
If you have such a rifle, and if it’s accurate and you shoot it well, you really don’t need anything else. On the other hand, if eland is not of
interest to you, you probably don’t need anything larger than a .30 caliber–and most of us will shoot better at a sustained rate with cartridges
that produce a bit less recoil. So if the largest antelope is on the game list, perhaps you should mate a fast .33 with something smaller and
more manageable, perhaps a .25 or 6.5mm, or your favorite .270, 7mm or .30 caliber.
If I had to choose the perfect single rifle for plains game, it would be my 8mm Remington Magnum. It’s a rifle I have used in Namibia,
South Africa, Ethiopia, Zambia and Chad, several times as a one-rifle battery. I have used it on eland, no problems, and I’ve also used it for
longer shooting in wide-open country, including gemsbok in the Kalahari and the tiny dorcas gazelle on the edge of the Sahara.
But if I decided to take two rifles I would probably go a bit larger on the upper end, perhaps to a .338 Winchester Magnum, and drop down a
whole bunch on the other end to something like the 7×57 in brush country or a fast 6.5mm or .270 in more open ground."**despite Craig Boddingtons preference for .375H&H -8mmMag for eland, his young daughter successfully used 7mm/08 on her 200yd bull eland. The 7mm/08 says CB, being the rifle she has most confidence in using. Yup, it's like I said, Boddington's changed his tune. He sure sold a lot of books and articles using that old tune though.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018 |
There is no real difference between the two.
If you want to see a bit of a difference, up the velocity of the 33 to 340 Wby or better yet 338 RUM or Lapua.
But who the hell would want to pack something shootable in any of those on an elk mountain?
Pass the 308 Win or, 30-06, or 270... I see you've come around, just like Boddington.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,910 |
Just told my wife about this "very" active thread. She said, "Not interested in their opinions, I'll keep using my .338 "! That pretty much ends all debate.... at least in our house!  memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 29
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 29 |
I enjoy the .338 more. I don't feel like I'm getting that much more over my .30-06 by using a .300win mag. However, the .338 feels like allot more rifle... Notice I said "Feels..." no elk will know the difference in my opinion.
-Jake
Have you had the chance to take your new 338 to the range yet?
Last edited by Omega51; 07/08/17.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,058
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,058 |
Just told my wife about this "very" active thread. She said, "Not interested in their opinions, I'll keep using my .338 "! That pretty much ends all debate.... at least in our house! memtb  Man needs to know his place...  DF
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626 |
[quote=bwinters].WDM Bell and and Harry Selby were advocates of the primary importance of shot placement.
Phill Shoemaker, Boddington and anyone on 24CF with rational sense...will tell you the same.
Boddington must've changed his tune. I've read a bunch of his stuff where he touts the .338 for elk, and a minimum of 2000 ft-lbs of energy at the animal, not at the muzzle. And using Energy as a requirement tells me everything I need to know about CB...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 12,651 |
[quote=bwinters].WDM Bell and and Harry Selby were advocates of the primary importance of shot placement.
Phill Shoemaker, Boddington and anyone on 24CF with rational sense...will tell you the same.
Boddington must've changed his tune. I've read a bunch of his stuff where he touts the .338 for elk, and a minimum of 2000 ft-lbs of energy at the animal, not at the muzzle. And using Energy as a requirement tells me everything I need to know about CB... There is no question that energy is required. Without energy transfer, nothing happens. Even with massive energy transfer, if it happens over a large enough area or time span, nothing interesting happens. Those two facts should lead one to the more interesting questions and useful answers.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,449
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,449 |
I had this conversation with Allen Day once upon a time. He was an unapologetic fan of the 300 Win Mag and used it extensively. He owns 30's and 338's of identical construction. He shot them both a bunch and in our conversation confided that the 338 with 225's was an easier animal to shoot than the 300 with 180's. Performance on game wasn't discussed. This is my experience as well. 7mm STW and the fast .30s pop the crap out of me, .338 pushes bigger but doesn't hit as hard because it's slower coming back. .375 H&H is nicer yet. That's in same-weight rifles, of course. One of the most pleasant-to-shoot "big" rifles I ever owned was a 700 XCR in .375 H&H. With a Leupold 3-9X40, it was nice to pack and nice to shoot. Pushy, but not jabby. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018 |
There is no question that energy is required. Without energy transfer, nothing happens.
Yes but we're talking about bullets killing animals, not the laws of physics writ large. There is no question about whether any bullet not at rest has "energy." Even with massive energy transfer, if it happens over a large enough area or time span, nothing interesting happens.
Once again, bullets and animals. Bullets impart their energy in a small area over milliseconds. The question is, in that context is "kinetic energy" a good yardstick. And the answer is no.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
There is no question that energy is required. Without energy transfer, nothing happens. Yes but we're talking about bullets killing animals, not the laws of physics writ large. There is no question about whether any bullet not at rest has "energy." Even with massive energy transfer, if it happens over a large enough area or time span, nothing interesting happens.
Those two facts should lead one to the more interesting questions and useful answers. Once again, bullets and animals. Bullets impart their energy in a small area over milliseconds. The question is, in that context is "kinetic energy" a good yardstick. And the answer is no. I added back in the line from my post that you left out of your quote. Your response tell me the "more interesting questions" have totally eluded you.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018 |
Nothing has eluded me, especially your need to hear yourself talk.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Nothing has eluded me, especially your need to hear yourself talk. Much has eluded you. If you had a clue what the "more interesting questions" were you response would have been totally different.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626 |
There is no question that energy is required. Without energy transfer, nothing happens.
Yes but we're talking about bullets killing animals, not the laws of physics writ large. There is no question about whether any bullet not at rest has "energy." Even with massive energy transfer, if it happens over a large enough area or time span, nothing interesting happens.
Once again, bullets and animals. Bullets impart their energy in a small area over milliseconds. The question is, in that context is "kinetic energy" a good yardstick. And the answer is no. Exactly.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,626 |
Nothing has eluded me, especially your need to hear yourself talk. Much has eluded you. If you had a clue what the "more interesting questions" were you response would have been totally different. Okay, here is a question for you... how was my son able to kill multiple animals at up to nearly 350 yards with single shots with 80gr TTSX in a 25-06? At animals like bull moose, bull caribou, brown bear, mountain goat, and others? No where near 2000 ft. lbs at the critter, either.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
Nothing has eluded me, especially your need to hear yourself talk. Much has eluded you. If you had a clue what the "more interesting questions" were you response would have been totally different. Okay, here is a question for you... how was my son able to kill multiple animals at up to nearly 350 yards with single shots with 80gr TTSX in a 25-06? At animals like bull moose, bull caribou, brown bear, mountain goat, and others? No where near 2000 ft. lbs at the critter, either. You will never find me saying 2000fpe is required. Nor will you ever find me saying 0fpe is required.. The "more interesting questions" appear to elude you as well.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
300 WBY is the best elk cartridge around. Even Coyote Hunter know it.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,018 |
The "more interesting questions" appear to elude you as well. They've eluded neither one of us. We just don't think they're interesting questions.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
The "more interesting questions" appear to elude you as well. They've eluded neither one of us. We just don't think they're interesting questions. You don't even know what the questions are.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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