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Disconcerting that people like him actually walk around with loaded weapons.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago.


Best post of the whole thread.

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Originally Posted by slymule
I've only killed 4 elk with 180 gr. Bergers out of my 7mmSTW - 3 never took a step, justed crumpled where they stood. The only elk that wasn't DRT, was a cow that was shot as she was running about 80-90 yards away, after the shot she maybe went 30yds before she crumpled up, and she left the biggest blood trail I've ever seen left by any critter. Looked like somebody filled a 5 gallon bucket with blood and flung it down the trail - Ray Charles could of followed it. Two of the 4 elk had exit holes, both being close shots of less than 100yds. As far as the Bergers go - I love em, they do the job and they're accurate as hell.

So now the question is,did the 2 bullets that exited fail, or did the 2 bullets that did not exit fail? Hopefully lama boy will weigh in and answer this question as only he could do.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Nope, but Llama Bob posted this: "Internal bleeding drops blood pressure much slower than external bleeding."

Dolly Llama's Troll terminal ballistics is about as entertaining as his Troll hemodynamic physiology.

He's equally uninformed on both.

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Amen Dirtfarmer. The guy is very "entertaining".

"Cheap" entertainment.

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Llama bob is the gift that keeps on giving. wink


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Originally Posted by Alamosa
Originally Posted by smokepole
The other argument is, shoot what you want and what works for you and be happy with your choice. But don't run down others' choices because they don't work like you think a bullet is supposed to work based on what the "ideal bullet" was 50 years ago.


Best post of the whole thread.



Thanks but my vote for the best post goes to this one, because it was back at the beginning of the thread and summed it up before it unfolded:

Originally Posted by mudhen
Berger threads crop up here every few months and the gist of the comments can be boiled down to:

(a) I haven't actually used them but they aren't worth a damn--they blow up, don't penetrate, they don't leave an exit wound, and (with the exception of szihn) I know this for a fact because someone told me so.

or

(b) I have used them and they worked for me.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
When a bullet produces no exit wound (and in fact has no mechanism to produce one unless it fails to expand) that's a failure. .


You're an idiot. I think I've killed 10 or 11 elk in the last 15 years with my muzzleloader and no exit wound. Didn't lose any.

You strike me as someone who's read a lot of books on hunting and shooting.


smokepole you're just arguing with a keyboard hunter without a single animals experience. Not to mention that Burger tested the hunting VLD on red stag in New Zealand and smoked them.


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Originally Posted by Zengela
Disconcerting that people like him actually walk around with loaded weapons.


+1


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After reading this thread thus far the only thing I regret is not having a large bucket of popcorn...............................................and a beer. laugh


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Originally Posted by Prwlr
After reading this thread thus far the only thing I regret is not having a large bucket of popcorn...............................................and a beer. laugh


More pages than when I asked if anyones' Remington 700 bolt handle had broken off.....


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This has been explained over and over again but sometimes you simply can´t drive a donkey to the water regardless how thirsty he is.

The killing mechanism of the VLD is totally different to other bullets; It will drill the first 2-3 inches of tissue (any tissue, including bone) without any expansion and will then blow up causing massive destruction. If the animal you're shooting is big enough this massive destructions will happen inside the animal and if it is not big enough you will have a horrible exit hole.

I have used them extensively on cull hunts in South Africa and Namibia and know they are efficient killers and this is something unargueable. The proof being in the pudding.

Shooting so many animals, from Springbucks to Zebras with them, I have eventually had one or two do a funny thing inside, though always killing the animal.

If you think you need an exit hole to kill an animal you should use large caliber cartridges loaded with solids.

Or, if you think how well a bullet kills is dependent on the looks of a recovered bullet (VLDs will normally look horrible!) then you should only use low velocity loads with monolithics, partitioned, bonded, etc. bullets.

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I try to throw a hissy fit once or twice a day. They say it's the equivalent of registering 3000 steps with a girlie-man fitbit.

Been a guide/outfitter since 1997. Dealt with many experts......probably just like you. We've kept a journal.


Originally Posted by GregW
Pretty funny stuff you throwing a hissy fit about stuff you haven't a clue about Mike...




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Elk outfitter?



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Darn, there really is no getting anything past you.

Originally Posted by smokepole
Elk outfitter?



"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

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Whitetail outfitter in Iowa?



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[Linked Image]


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Elk outfitter?


Iowa Elk outfitter.
In certain locations Iowa even permits hunting with rifles.

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Yes, we did operate within a couple hundred yards of some trophy elk. Then, Timberghost fortunately moved them. Perhaps Jorge, hatari, or Pugs shot one at the other location.

We've dealt with some real experts over the years. I do see similar personalities in many posts here on the forum.

The January rifle doe-hunts are currently discontinued. Pretty sure we weren't the only complainers to the State concerning early-shedders getting shot in January.

But, you can use some straight-walled cartridges now, passed this year. Can use them during the shotgun seasons even.

Originally Posted by Alamosa
Originally Posted by smokepole
Elk outfitter?


Iowa Elk outfitter.
In certain locations Iowa even permits hunting with rifles.



"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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These things sound magical. All this, without computer programming or anything?

Who is being led to water, again?

Originally Posted by chamois

This has been explained over and over again but sometimes you simply can´t drive a donkey to the water regardless how thirsty he is.

The killing mechanism of the VLD is totally different to other bullets; It will drill the first 2-3 inches of tissue (any tissue, including bone) without any expansion and will then blow up causing massive destruction. If the animal you're shooting is big enough this massive destructions will happen inside the animal and if it is not big enough you will have a horrible exit hole.



"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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Guess I'm guilty of just falling for some fad, preferring heavier constructed bullets for heavier boned game.

Originally Posted by mathman

The problem with Mike's statement and others is Berger VLDs don't act the same as conventional frangible cup and core bullets. They may well not act like some want a bullet to act, but that's a different question.


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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