Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Plains game women's rifle/loaner rifle

I will be most likely going to Zimbabwe very late season next year to take advantage of some leftover season tags. Not a true "American" style safari where you book for 10 days for a buff, leopard or whatever. Gonna get together with my buddy, a young new starting out full licenced PH. We will load up the Land Cruiser and head out for??? A few weeks or so. Camping, fishing in Kariba Lake. Maybe some last second score on PAC animals? Anyways, I'm bringing over a few rifles for him(done it before,its legal) and I wanna give his new bride a gift. A plains game hunting rifle suitable for her and I know he will use it as a client loaner rifle. Any thoughts? Now remember that ammo availability is Paramount!!! I'm thinking 243,6.5x55,7x57,7-08. Bolt gun, maybe a new Howa or an existing Mauser sporter. It has to be: Tough, reliable built for the life of a Zimbabwe hunter. And economical. Not getting her a Pre -64!!!

CZ 550 7x57 Mauser

A Model 70 Zastava Mauser in 7x57 would do nicely, I would think.

It worked for me...can`t get more classic.

Appears that Zastava doesn't have a M70 7x57 in America at this time. Will continue to look of course, they do import the 7-08.the CZ 550 is of course a great choice.

Ammunition acquisition is a real problem in Zim. There is reasonably well equipped gun store in Harare that stocks the more common calibers. As you know, he (or she) must have the rifle licensed in their name, which is not a big deal, especially for a PH. However, it is illegal to possess ammunition unless you have a registered, licensed rifle in that caliber.

If she can handle a .30/06, that would be my recommendation. It is a common caliber in terms of what clients bring, and while technically illegal, many clients will leave ammunition behind as an extra "thank you" to the PH.

I have never seen a 7-08 in Zim, but it is not uncommon in Namibia. You would have to check. I have a PH friend in Namibia whose son is deadly on Gemsbok culls with his suppressed 7-08.

I own a 7x57 and enjoy it a great deal. That said, it is not easy to find decent 7x57 ammunition in the USA. Don't know what the availability of 7x57 ammunition is in Zim.

The ideal situation would be if your PH handloads. You could bring the 7x57 and 100 rounds of ammunition (Norma 156 grain bonded Oryx) and a set of dies and that would serve her for a long time. The cases could be reloaded and that would keep her in shooting fodder for years. Ditto for the 7-08. Remember there is an airline limit of 5 kilos when flying with ammunition.

A Model 70 featherweight would be a good choice. The CZ550 is well understood in Africa, but I find it a bit heavy in the lighter calibers and sometimes they need a bit of action work to smooth them up. It is, however, quite rugged. There was a post recently here on the 'Fire that a dealer was selling Sako 85's for around $970.

Lady I know recently purchased a .308 Win Weatherby Camilla.

My goodness! It shoots well, and more importantly, she shoots it well. Men and women are built a bit differently as you may have noticed, and the Camilla was specifically designed for women, on a Vanguard action. Great little rifle that shoots well and handles great.

FWIW, Guy

Like I said a gun for her(never met her don't even know if she hunts!). But, being the wife of a Zm PH?? That would undoubtedly also be used as a loaner rifle. Now boys, my thinking is this..... If he has to loan a rifle, I would be most likely to a person that:
1. Does not own a rifle and therefore is recoil shy.
2. Luggage FU by the airlines and he/she must make do.
3. Will be a real truck gun.
4. Last ele hunt we did he did not reload, but wanted to start.
5. I know for a fact he likes the 30-06. They used one while I was there. Get this, Military FMJ on crocs.
6.hell, he may sell it for all I know.
I was figuring on bringing dies and bullets in checked luggage. Doesn't go against my 5 kilo.
And if you can't handle a '06 or 270 maybe you shouldn't be hunting in Africa?
I have never,never ever seen a 308 bolt gun in Zim. Yes in Namibia. Maybe modern military calibers are illegal?

7x64 Brenneke in a CZ 550 Lux.

TELL HIM that you're bringing a gift rifle. He will tell you what he (and she) can use, and what will be best for them. Otherwise, it's just going to be sold at a loss.

You are right. Just wanting to plan. He is humble. May not say much to me about it.

308 bolt rifle. Seen lots of them. Locals use military hard ball with points filed to expose hollow. Goes bang. Many FN-FAL type rifles around.
This is for her not a bunch of rifle lovers who live in the US

308 bolt rifle

An addendum re: Zim rifle requirements:

For the smaller ungulates (Impala, klipspringer, etceteras), the minimum legal bore diameter is 5.56 mm.

For just about everything else (except elephant, hippo and buff), the minimum legal bore diameter is 7mm.

For the big stuff, the minimum legal bore diameter is 9.3 mm and 5,300 joules of energy.

Except for the smaller ungulates, that pretty much rules out a 6.5x55 or a .270 as a "legal" bore diameter, even though they have a fine record as big game cartridges.

If your PH hunts concessions leased from the government, as you know, he must have a government game scout with him to ensure that all hunting laws and regulations are followed. Most game scouts are decent fellows who enjoy the hunt, help out whenever possible and look forward to their tip at the conclusion of the hunt. However, I hunted with one humorless game scout who enforced every rule and regulation to the letter. That's a good reason to use 7mm as a minimum for the rifle you are gifting to your friends.

I say again, for a myriad of reasons, you can't go wrong with a .30/06.

+1 for 308 bolt rifle

Another vote for the .308. It's modest muzzle velocities work great with the cup-and-core bullets that are most likely to be used, since those are what are most available (and affordable) in Africa. Being "affordable" isn't just a matter of saving a few dimes over there, since both factory ammo and components cost a LOT more than they do in the U.S. And at typical ranges the .308 works just as well as the .30-06, with noticeably less recoil.

You picked the right calibers. Think about what ammo he can obtain. I love the 6.5 x 55. Have a custom Mauser in that caliber built for my wife. Can ammo be obtained? I handload, but can they? I got a 7 x 57 in RUger #1 for my daughter. Really good choice for her.

This rifle in 308 Win

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11Lady

^^^^!!!$899.00 screw that. Not worth it.

check with your friend about leaving rifles that you will import under your name ... they may question you when it will time to leave (zim customs and police can be good for that) ...

If you don't want to spend a lot of $$, you could buy one of the discontinued Marlin XS7 in 308. If she is a smaller woman, you could buy the compact/youth style with a shorter LOP, either via Gunbroker for under $400.

EDIT: Guessing what someone would like can be an inexact science. Last year I bought rifles for 4 boys, XS7s in 243, and they didn't want them! The boys in Colorado wanted lever action saddle guns and the boys in Vermont want pump action rifles. I ended up buying them rifles in the styles that they wanted and have the four NIB Marlins on a shelf.

Like everyone else has said, get the .308. I took one on 3 different trips and had no issues with it. Take as much ammo as you can with 180 grain Barnes bullets and call it a day.

I'm no African hunting expert or experienced hunter with women, were I to look for a rifle for my wife, I'd be non other than an FN Super-Grade featherweight Model 70 Winchester in 7X57mm, I'd work her up a load featuring the 150 gr Partition at around 2700-2750 fps, outfitted with a matte 2.5-8 Leupold in dual dovetail bases and rings and a nice comfortable sling for her, she could easily do it all inside of 300 yards with this setup.

When I grow up, I want to be Gunner. EXCELLENT POST.

You are beyond a dipshit. Did you read my OP post???? NOT GONNA BUY HER A PRE 64 M70!!!!. He does not reload!!! Its assclowns like you that spoil these threads. She/he gets a. Affordable rifle. FN SUPER-GRADE FEATHERWEIGHT MODEL 70 WINCHESTER IN 7X57MM??? there is a very special stupid for people like you.

Not leaving rifles in my name!!! I am giving as a gift rifles. I have done this before!!!! I have to pay the VAT tax on them, they register the rifles in their names. People, if you haven't done this, and have no concrete Zimbabwe knowledge of their laws please just leave your 2¢ on the rifle choice. My last gift was a 12 gauge pump that I brought over. Reciet was from Walmart! VAT on $289.00

Z, I don't know squat about zim laws and regs. Gunner did not suggest a RARE pre 64 SG, but a current production model. May still be over budget, but a whole 'nother animal. Peace brother.....

You have to go to the police station with the rifle and the PH, along with the paperwork customs stamped when you brought the rifle in. He will need to bring his PH license and gun license with him. They will transfer the rifle to him and give you a piece of paper that you can show to customs when you leave as an explanation as to why you are not leaving with the rifle you brought in. Ditto for the ammunition. Not a big deal.

Dude, I know... Done this a few times. The customs women knows me 1st hand.

"FN Super Grade"? They don't make FN Super grade in 7x57mm, not for USA markets for many years in 7x57mm, if ever? Is he saying a FN Belgium Pre Browning? Any way it's not a " truck gun" for Zim that I said. A current Super grade is $1500. And 7x57mm is not an option.

Sorry for the bother. I don't buy new Winchesters and did not realize 7x57 was not available. Good day,

Zengela:

I beg your pardon, sir. Last November, I bought an FN BACO Model 70 Super Grade Featherweight 7x57 here on the 'Fire. 22" barrel, good wood, Howell inletted sling swivels, wrap around checkering, red rubber recoil pad. FN made a run of less than 200 of them in 2014. I feel fortunate to have found this one. The last time I looked, there were still a few available on Gunbroker.

Gunsmith mounted a Swaro Z3 on it in dual Leupold dovetail bases and adjusted the trigger to a crisp 3 lbs. Under an inch @ 100 yards with Norma 156 grain Bonded Oryx ammunition and mild recoil.

Do a search of my posts or posts from BrandonC on November 16, 2016 and you can see pics of the rifle and the price I bought it for. The rifle was absolutely immaculate when it arrived, as NIB, with box, papers and everything you would expect.

I don't care what you do, but would respectfully suggest that if you had provided more detailed information, perhaps if you'd set a budget ceiling, you would have narrowed the scope of responses. Remember that different folks have different levels of discretionary income, such that while $1K might be a lot of money to pay for a gift for some guys, it would be pocket change for other guys.

Zengela, how about the Interarms Mark X 7x57.

LMAO, yes, I read both posts, they both spoke of possible handloading by your buddy, and brass and bullets brought over by you.

Better informing yourself with rifles available for purchase, what they are and are not will go along way, so will ponying up past cheap for a gift, be it for a loaner or anything else, I've found nothing to do with Africa cheap, friends, women, PH's AND the animals don't deserve cheap, they all deserve good accurate properly functioning weaponry.

You are correct on one estimation, I am King Dipschit if I want to be, carry on.

Yes, that is more like it. People telling me of stories of Swarovski scopes and limited runs of now discontinued Winchesters of only 200 made rifles. I'm trying to be realistic. A simple affordable easy to obtain rifle. I will set the price figure at $750.00. That should narrow it down.

Ruger Hawkeye 308.

There's a Synthetic Stocked, Blued Metal version available on CDNN for 500 bucks right now.

Yeah, and the .308 will do anything the 7x57 will, with factory ammo you can actually buy even in Africa. I know this because of having taken a lot of big game with both rounds, up to 800-1000 pounds, and watched both in action in the hands of others.

Of course, a .308 doesn't gratify the inner rifle loony like a 7x57, which is of course the reason so many are insisting on the 7x57. It's what THEY would want, even though it's not as practical for the parameters suggested by the OP.

I quite agree. Jerry nails it yet again. I note that he did not try to answer the OP's question directly, but simply stated what he would do if it was HIS wife going on HIS hunt. I fail to see the provocation the OP apparently sees.

Of course, I also agree completely with Mule Deer, for the practical reasons he cites, which seem to meet the OP's requirements. I am personally a huge fan of the .308, and both my son and daughter have .308's, as does my stepson, now. I have a ton of rifle loony rifles and calibers and I love 'em all, but a Ruger American .308 would do nicely for this purpose.

Bud's has Vanguard2 Weatherguard finished Carbines in 308 for around $575. I took one in 7mm-08 in trade within the past couple of months and have been pretty impressed with how handy it is, sort of a 21st Century revised reincarnation of the much beloved (in retrospect) Remington 660. Bud's part # 719015449.

You could get the regular blued CM V2 Carbine for around $530, part # 78949, or the Howa 1500 for around $480, part # 16276. Despite the nearly identical barreled actions, I like the V2 better than the Howa 1500 because the V2 stocks fit me much better than the chunky Hogue stocks.

For another couple hundred $$ you could install a Leupold VX2 2-7x33 or 3-9x40 in the mounts of your choice and come in really close to your $750 target.

www.budsgunshop.com

Thanks everybody. Its been a long day. No offense intended.

If really for her, get a rifle that fits her. The Weatherby Camilla or Savage Lady Hunter in .308 would be a good place to start. If you have deep pockets, a Kilimanjaro artemis would be a very nice present. Whatever you get, get something that fits her. Most of the responses on here are just rifles guys want and make their wife/daughter use. A loaner rifle for women that actually fits women might be nice to have in camp as well.

Brand new Camilla my friend recently bought was just a bit over $600, looks great and shoots very well. Hers is a .308 Win.

Simple solution for a ladies rifle?

Regards, Guy

Savage Ladyhunter.

While I agree with the choice of a rifle built to fit a lady, I question the thinking of purchasing a less than robust design which will be used in a country where parts may be difficult to find.

Are the Camillia and Savage ladyhunter less robust than a standard offering by either factory? Don't think I would sweat it. But will research it later.

Weatherby Camilla is the familiar Vanguard action, with a 20" barrel and a very interesting stock that is nicely shaped for the female hunter/shooter.

That stock is a LOT different from typical rifles, and well received by the women I know who've used it.

Guy

My comment on sending a more robust rifle to Africa wasn't about lady's rifles.

Thanks for the clarification. The Ruger Hawkeye in 308 seems a good choice at a resonable price point.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/americanRifleCompact/models.html

Ruger American compact rifle in 308
weighs 6 pounds
price $489.00

Get shortactionsmoker to ship you a howa 308 for $339 and you should be good to go. Another option might be to order one of the cdnn Ruger Hawkeyes for $499. Sounds like what you are thinking about $$wise and they s/b good servicable rifles for him/her.

sorry 2x

My first thought when seeing this thread was 7x57. It just seems fitting. I have my eye on a cute little 7x57 sporterized mauser 98 in a synthetic stock that looks like new. They (LGS) are wanting $299 for it.... That's the way I'd roll if it were me looking for a rifle for my wife... or even myself, now that I think about it...

Hmmmm..
You could get them both a "gift" and shove any rifle straight up your ass before toeing the trigger. Lol.

I'm sure it'd be appreciated.

No offense intended, of course.

Why are you so rude?

I wonder why.

Ya, he done went and hurt my feelers with that one , newer made super grade feather weights are still available, and regular feather weights are a plenty, I've seen em for 1200 bucks, fine little rifles.

Damn, people here are savage. Wanting me to put a rifle in my azz and yank the trigger? Sorry if I offended gunner.

No offense taken, I do a lot of fertilizer slinging here myself.

Well in that case, you probably shoot Bergers!(JK)

Zims laws? Big deal. US export law is what you should worry about.

You are aware that permanent export of a sporting shotgun is different than exporting a rifle? ITAR, sec 121, outlines the differences; a rifle is ITAR controlled and requires a permit from the Dept of State.

Anyway, doesn't matter since the permanent export of ITAR controlled items to Zimbabwe has been illegal since 2011. Only exception is temporary export for personal use.


http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/FR/2011/76FR47990.pdf

My wife was 5' 8" and 130-ish lbs. She had a Rem 722 rebarreled to 308 with a pachmayr decelerator recoil pad and a 4x weaver scope and did fine on everything up to and including Kudu.

If I had to do it over again, I'd do it over again the same.

And, I was into it all up maybe $400? Inexpensive, easy to fix and maintain, parts are everywhere. I think this is your huckleberry.