24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,113
W
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
W
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,113
I am a pre'64 M70 aficionado and own several. That said, last November I bought an M70 featherweight super grade 7x57 here on the 'Fire. It was made in 2014 by FN BACO. IMO, except for the "MOA" trigger, it is every bit the equal of a pre '64. The action is super slick.

The trigger pulll is crisp and was easily adjusted to 3lbs. I simply don't like the enclosed, "tamper proof" complex triggers that come on many modern rifles, this one included. IMO, the previous "classic" and pre '64 triggers are the best triggers ever put into a hunting rifle. If you can live with the current "MOA" trigger, they are a fine rifle, IMO, the equal of a 'pre '64.

BP-B2

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,348
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,348
Originally Posted by GunDoc7
Originally Posted by patbrennan
But then you would quickly remember how that action felt vs a pre 64 and be disappointed in it! (the voice of experience here!)


I own both Stainless Classics and Pre '64 rifles. I am not disappointed in the way the Classic actions feel. Perhaps I am not discriminating enough and am missing something. Care to elaborate?


I agree GunDoc. I love all Model 70's, as long as they were made in the 50's or 90's

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,664
P
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,664
Originally Posted by GunDoc7
Originally Posted by patbrennan
But then you would quickly remember how that action felt vs a pre 64 and be disappointed in it! (the voice of experience here!)


I own both Stainless Classics and Pre '64 rifles. I am not disappointed in the way the Classic actions feel. Perhaps I am not discriminating enough and am missing something. Care to elaborate?


For myself (others may choose to differ!) the pre 64s feed much better/smoother, the safeties have been smoother/quieter, and when the actions close they "feel" like a good mauser/fn/bank vault (as opposed to a bolt inside a piece of pipe!). I tried to like the FN manufactured model 70s also but never did warm up to them (though the couple I had shot very well).

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
G
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
Originally Posted by patbrennan

For myself (others may choose to differ!) the pre 64s feed much better/smoother, the safeties have been smoother/quieter, and when the actions close they "feel" like a good mauser/fn/bank vault (as opposed to a bolt inside a piece of pipe!). I tried to like the FN manufactured model 70s also but never did warm up to them (though the couple I had shot very well).


My experience is a bit different.

I judge feeding by the most difficult test I can imagine. Specifically, rifle vertical, muzzle down, work the action as SLOW as possible, virtually pushing the bolt forward not with a specific force, but with a specific slow speed. If the feeding is not truly controlled, then when the magazine releases the cartridge it will fall away from the bolt and into the chamber. If the feeding is truly controlled, by the time the magazine releases the cartridge it is already held by the extractor. You must try this with a full magazine, feeding with different tensions and from both sides. I know my New Haven Classic .300 Win Mag is good, as is my Pre '64 .270. If I recall correctly, my New Haven Classic Featherweight .270 is fine too. Bottom line, they all feed well for me.

I have found Pre '64 safeties to behave all manner of different ways as far as smoothness, noise, and when/how they release. I don't know if this is due to hand fitting at the factory, or subsequent work after leaving the factory. The New Haven guns are a little louder than some, but plenty smooth, positive, and consistent. I attribute this to CNC machining, and (sigh!) MIM consistent parts.

Here is an interesting test. Cock the rifle, but the safety in the "middle" position, raise the bolt handle slightly, then see if you can flip the safety lever to fire. In my experience, some Pre '64 will allow this, some will not, and newer rifles almost never will. Older Winchester instructions were to put the safety in the middle position to make it easy to manipulate "when action was imminent." But as your trigger finger is outside the guard, your trigger finger knuckle nearest your hand might move the bolt handle up a bit. One might think this would lead to the dangerous condition of the rifle firing on a less than closed bolt. But you will find that if you can get that particular safety off and pull the trigger, as the firing pin moves forward, it closes the bolt. However, this might take enough energy from the firing pin to cause the primer to not ignite. Not good. One the other hand, there was a lady a few years ago how got beat up pretty badly by a Cape Buffalo. Her husband was using a newer M70, had the safety in the middle position, inadvertently raised the bolt a bit, and couldn't disengage the safety. (At least that seems to be what happened based on how the account read.) He eventually figured it out and shot the buff right between the eyes, but not before his wife took a beating. I don't remember where the PH was during all this. So, either way this test works on your rifle, it seems a poor idea to me to ever have the safety in the middle position "when action is imminent."

I don't notice much difference in "bank vault" closing, but maybe I am not discriminating enough.

So, I like all my M70's. But maybe I got lucky on the chambering choices, vintage, or individual rifles. I avoided the push feed rifles, so all of mine are controlled feed. Admittedly my sample size is small. But I tend to mess with the safety action and the "bolt handle test" on any M70 I handle, so I have more confidence in those comments. Obviously, I cannot test all of them for feeding.

Best,
Gun Doc


Clinging to guns & religion since 1959

Keyboards make people braver than alcohol

Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience

Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
Quote
If the feeding is not truly controlled, then when the magazine releases the cartridge it will fall away from the bolt and into the chamber.
You know the reason for that, right? But just in case, that malady's cured via proper magazine spring tension; an issue I run into from time to time. It's a simple one to cure, via judicious altering of the angles in the bends in order to provide enough (and even) pressure on the follower..


Quote
If the feeding is truly controlled, by the time the magazine releases the cartridge it is already held by the extractor. You must try this with a full magazine, feeding with different tensions and from both sides.
Agreed..

Too bad you "avoided the push feed rifles", since many of those are excellent..


Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
IC B2

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
Originally Posted by Winchestermodel70
. IMO, the previous "classic" and pre '64 triggers are the best triggers ever put into a hunting rifle..
Preachin' to the choir, my boy... smile


Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
G
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,935
Originally Posted by Redneck
Quote
If the feeding is not truly controlled, then when the magazine releases the cartridge it will fall away from the bolt and into the chamber.
You know the reason for that, right? But just in case, that malady's cured via proper magazine spring tension; an issue I run into from time to time. It's a simple one to cure, via judicious altering of the angles in the bends in order to provide enough (and even) pressure on the follower..


Quote
If the feeding is truly controlled, by the time the magazine releases the cartridge it is already held by the extractor. You must try this with a full magazine, feeding with different tensions and from both sides.
Agreed..

Too bad you "avoided the push feed rifles", since many of those are excellent..


I don't think I have yet had the occasion to need to know about the magazine spring, but thank you for telling me about it. Now, I need to not forget it!

I would never doubt someone with your experience about the excellence of the push feed rifles. I assume you mean quality, accuracy, etc. And I know I don't really "need" a controlled feed rifle. But the engineer in me just loves the way controlled feed works. I bet you already know the 1911 works by controlled feed too, as long as it is working correctly.


Clinging to guns & religion since 1959

Keyboards make people braver than alcohol

Election Integrity is more important than Election Convenience

Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness"
More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
Re: the 1911, yes I do.. smile

Got a M70 SG in right now for a rebarrel.. As soon as I began the disassembly I noted right away that, unless I tweak that magazine spring, there's gonna be feeding issues.. And this is one of those supposedly "excellent quality" BACO examples.. But, hey, it happens to 'em all some time or another.. smile

Best wishes...


Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
346 members (007FJ, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 160user, 12344mag, 34 invisible), 2,194 guests, and 953 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,731
Posts18,400,859
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.101s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8404 MB (Peak: 0.9366 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 11:29:50 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS