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The market may be softening, but if people keep parting them out and otherwise messing with them, there will be fewer and fewer originals out there. Interestingly, I'm not sure how I feel about taking the stocks off for a synthetic, then selling the original. Presumably, this "helps" another M70 out there somewhere, although it will no longer be "as from the factory."

I also wonder if the market can get only so soft? Even really beat up Colt Peacemaker's bring surprising $, let alone the nicer ones.


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Much as I like Model 70's, they never had or will have the historical significance of a Peacemaker. The Colt became a symbol of American history. The 70 never rose above being a good rifle.


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Originally Posted by battue
Much as I like Model 70's, they never had or will have the historical significance of a Peacemaker. The Colt became a symbol of American history. The 70 never rose above being a good rifle.


Not to argue, but worthy of some discussion.

How did the Peacemaker become a symbol of American history, and how historically significant was it really? I cannot prove it, but I suspect the west was won by an assortment of long guns more than by handguns. Militarily, I believe one could say the same about long guns vs. handguns. I take no pleasure in saying this, but I suspect Hollywood and television had more to do with the popularity of the Peacemaker than anything. Not that many people know who Elmer Keith was, let alone R.F. Sedgley. Bill Ruger undoubtedly tapped into an unrecognized market, one that many had considered almost dead. But I don't know how much of Ruger's apparent genius was based on true historical significance as opposed to "the Westerns."

The Model 70 was not terribly significant militarily, but it seems to me it is more than just "a good rifle." Among bolt action hunting rifles, there is the Mauser, the Model 70, and everything else. And the best of "everything else" borrows much from the Mauser and the M70.

I'm not saying the M70 will ever have the popularity of the Peacemaker. But I honestly wonder about true historical significance. And like any great gun, I wonder how soft the market on the M70 can get.

Geez, the way movies are going, the frickin' Glock will be collectible! Lord help us!


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Not looking to argue on this end either and you make some good points re the influence of Hollywood. However, since we are posting about the value of firearms and the market for them, you can never discount historical significance when it comes value.

A couple most recent

https://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/05/10/expensive-gun-sold-auction-1-26-million/


http://www.missoulacurrent.com/general/2017/04/montana-little-bighorn-rifle-native-americans/



I would guess there are others that traded hands privately that exceeds these.


http://www.gunzmart.com/blog/5-expensive-firearms-ever-sold-auction/



You could have Rule's most favorite and used Model 70 and it would be out of its league. The Model 70 is a great rifle, but its' significance value falls short when you factor in history. I'll take Earp's Peacemaker over Ruie's 70.


http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/the-7-most-expensive-guns-ever-sold/





Last edited by battue; 07/22/17.

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Battue,

No doubt arms with solid provenance to famous people or events changes the game. Just as a Wyatt Earp's Peacemaker is worth more than the serial number next to it in similar condition, the one he carried at the O.K. Corral, if you can prove it, is worth even more. For that matter, Earp's M70 (not that he had one, but if he did) would be worth more than Rule's Peacemaker (which might exist, I don't know.)

But I was discussing models in general, not connected to famous people, and I was thinking of popularity compared historical significance. The Peacemaker is definitely more popular than the M70. It may even be more historically significant. But I'm not sure the popularity of the Peacemaker is much about historical significance. I might even be willing to argue that the M70 is a better rifle than the Peacemaker is a handgun, but that is neither here nor there.

As to the most valuable M70 extant, who knows? Maybe one of O'Connor's? If I owned Finn Aagaard's .375 I'd shoot it, but I wouldn't change a thing about it. There is probably a more valuable M70 out there, but if I had to pick one in the next minute, I would pick the one carried by Carlos Hathcock. Even that isn't Wyatt's Peacemaker, but you have to admit it would be pretty damn cool.

On a similar subject, some friends and I were discussing classic cars. I got to wondering what cars today will be classics in 40 years. And the thing that got me wondering is what would still be working once all the computer stuff has gone tits up!

KIndest regards,
Gun Doc


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Doc,

Admittedly, models in general not connected to famous people would be the normal course of conversation here. However, popularity and historical significance will always be relevant and connected. If the Peacemaker wasn't such a good and readily available pistol, would Earp entrust his life with it? I doubt it.


Cars? Dad restored a 31 Model A Coupe. It was cherry. Upon his passing Mother sold it to a friend for good money. Time passed and those who drove 31 Model A Coupes dwindled. Eventually, the friend had to let it go for half of what he paid for it. Those who found it popular and at least personally significant had gone on, and the remaining generations had little interest in it. I tend to think the same will happen with the Model 70. In fact, I think I am seeing it happen in real time.

Future classic cars? They will be there. The problem is I'm thinking most will have to be content with sitting in the shell. Because of the failed computer systems, I doubt if most will be running. Shame, for the muscle cars and Vettes of today, are damn sweet driving machines.

Last edited by battue; 07/23/17.

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Battue,

Good points. If there are any famous pieces of junk out there, they were probably what was at hand as opposed to being a careful choice. Not sure about Oswald's rifle. He chose it beforehand, but to my knowledge that model is not considered to be a good rifle. Perhaps the explanation is simply it was what he could afford.

I have heard what you describe about cars from other sources. So you may be right about the M70. There do seem to be some younger folks who have figured it out about the M70. BSA comes to mind, but actually, I don't know how old he is. Even so, I suppose you are correct that there are not enough "new disciples" to sustain a vigorous market.

Maybe the markets dip and recover. What is the market for old Winchester lever guns? Did it drop and recover? I honestly don't know. Is the market governed by that "historical significance" thing, nostalgia, rarity? I know the answer is "all of the above", but how much are younger people participating? There aren't that many 1886's. There are plenty of 1894's, but only so many Pre '64.

The thing about M70's is that many still believe they are superior rifles. If not, you wouldn't see actions getting new barrels and old guns being restocked in synthetic. I keep my Pre '64's "old style", but I might not if I didn't have Stainless Classics. Maybe the younger riflemen don't see the attributes we appreciate?

A bit off the subject, but not entirely, regarding products and what the younger generation expects and accepts, I deplore our "throw away" mentality. I understand it for products where the next generation is demonstrably better, as with TVs going from CRT, to flat screen, to something huge yet light enough to easily hang on the wall. To some extent with computers although for many of us some of the advances don't overly improve our simple word processing, 'net access and the like. But other goods like washing machines and refrigerators don't do much better than they used to, they just don't last as long. Much of this is planned obsolescence that we have come to accept when in the past quality construction mattered. I lecture in Mechanical Engineering. I tell my students "If you want to be 'green', then build stuff that lasts. The ultimate recycle is not to have to recycle. In many cases, you have been conditioned to accept poor quality." We see it with guns to some extent. but not as bad as it could be. The thing that helps guns is that there has to be a certain level of durability, if not quality, due to liability concerns.

We certainly have hijacked this thread have we not?! Mostly my fault.

Regards,
Gun Doc


Last edited by GunDoc7; 07/23/17.

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Seems like many-certainly not all, as exemplified by many here- of the younger guys want to chase the latest fad in cartridges rather than investing in a solid rifle. I wouldn't necessarily call it a throwaway mentality, however, it doesn't lend itself to investing in quality rifles. Then there are the exceptions shown by those who build one quality rifle after another. The rifle world is much different today than the glory years of "The Rifleman's Rifle." I also believe this is the Golden Age of rifles. There has never been a time when the rifle has been built better with consistent quality parts if one desires to do so. These are the good old days.

Then there are the Bic rifles. Something for everyone, hard to find fault.

Last edited by battue; 07/23/17.

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This was my first traveling trip I've gone into a Cabelas Gun Library and didn't find a single P64... kinda broke my heart a little. I love looking those suckers over when I find them and I'm always looking for a good 270 FWT to hunt.


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