Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity

Thanks,I'm glad you didn't take offence,none was meant. I am glad to hear you have devoted a good bit of time to the scriptures. I do agree with your example more than you could guess.

I'm still not giving up on you over Paul though. I would be willing to bet that if we could talk enough,I could get you to change your mind about some things. I've agreed with just about everything I remember except your position on Paul, so I have to think you somehow have the wrong idea about his writings.

"John said:" God is love."

That right. God loves you but if you don't love him back he'll burn you in hell for eternity. It's your choice. God is like the egotistical guy that tells his girlfriend that he loves her but if she doesn't love him back he'll blow her brains out. It's her choice though so if she choses not to love him back it's her fault if she gets her brains blown out.

Perfect analogy except that the boyfriend didn't create the girlfriend. Nor is the boyfriend the objective standard against which all is judged.

But ya know... other than that is a perfect analogy.

That may be your atheist view,and I'm sure some calling themselves Christians have presented God in that way. I'm a Christian and I have studied the Bible extensively and that's not the way I see it at all. In my view,God isn't throwing anyone into hell. They are headed there because there's only two choices and they don't qualify on their own for Heaven. God knew they wouldn't qualify but he fixed it so they could go anyway if they would just hold his hand through the gate. God stands there holding his hand out wanting to take people through but they would rather spit in his face.

No, you present it in a way that makes it acceptable. Telling a person "Hey if you don't believe this you're going to burn in hell, you want to burn in hell?, if not then you had better believe what I'm telling you!"

Very few listen to that approach, When I was younger there were many people who turned me off to God, Thankfully there was a man who knew how to talk to people and lead them to God, he got my attention and I never turned back.

My Dad used to tell me "It's not what you say, it's how you say it"

Telling a man he's a fool because he doesn't believe what you say doesn't seem to me to be the way to go about it, maybe the problem lies with in you......maybe it's the way you say it.

I've seen many Christians drive people from God and or attending church, Many.

Arrogance does not bring "on the fence" believers to God, it pushes them away. It does not happen with one "your going to burn in hell" conversation, it takes time and one can screw it up in about 3 seconds flat, I've been there.

Don't screw up bringing someone to God because you can't get past your pride and arrogance.

After reading this thread the only words that come to mind are these:He gave us free will,believe or not it's up to you.

He gave everyone the facts to form their ways and it's up to them to sort it out.

You forget one major detail. It's not me saying it. It is God's word. Whether you listen to it or not will be no excuse when you stand before your maker to explain it. Lot's of good people may not like what the scriptures say, but that doesn't make the scriptures wrong.

Not a rebuke to anyone but just something to think about when we speak to those unsaved.

Romans 2:3-4King James Version (KJV)

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

You should probably reread my post, I never said Gods word was wrong or offending, the gist of my post was......Maybe it's the way you present gods word that is wrong.

I've also seen the arrogance and pride of a parent push their own kids away from god, ever hear of "Preachers kid syndrome"? there is a reason the term exists.

Whether we agree or not is irrelevant to the facts. Not accepting the proof for something in no way diminishes the proof. Look how clear the First Chapter of Genesis is and yet how many "Christians" don't accept it as factual history. How much legal historical evidnece is there for Jesus?! Rejecting proof shows someone is being willfully ignorant. Like Jesus says in John Five, "If they don't believe Moses and the prophets, they will not believe if someone rises from the dead."

The "Preachers kid syndrome" is brought on by the hypocrisy of the parents not living the things preached on Sunday. It's that simple in a nutshell.

Another point I'll hope to make.

What I see with A.S. is you trying to use scriptures to make him feel unworthy and unloved, do you really think this works? Why would you not get into a conversation with him to try to find out why he feels the way he does and work from there?

One thing is for sure, he sure as hell ain't going to get into a conversation with you about it now, that chance is long gone.

One of my favorite sayings comes from my Dad, "I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

I'm afraid I don't do a very good job of giving a sermon but I try to get better at it.

Why can't you understand that the best argument to make to a non believer concerning the existence of God may not be verses from a book that you say God wrote,and therefore he must accept it as truth?

When I picture Jesus on the earth,I don't see him pointing the finger quoting scripture pointing out everyone's faults. I'm sure there was plenty of that going on by the Pharisees.Jesus did quote scripture, but mostly what I see Jesus doing is living his faith .

Not being argumentative RH, but Jesus did rebuke many people in his short lifetime, including his disciples

http://feedingonchrist.com/how-jesus-confronted-and-corrected-others/

He obviously did so too by the way he lived His life, as you mentioned.

Re Paul....... In the first place I don't believe Jesus intended to trust His message/ministry to a "church". According to many scholars, the word that is translated as "church" more accurately means a "fellowship", but that's really beside the point. It seems most unlikely to me that after what the Jews did with their priests and temple that He would want to duplicate that.

Jesus was revealed as the Christ to John the Baptist and then to Peter. Read the verses around those events and especially the words of Jesus following Peter's confession.Those along with other statements lead me to believe that His "church" was founded on the Father's ability to reveal Jesus as the Christ to individuals.

Paul had a profound Spiritual Experience on the Damascus road. If you've ever had a similar experience, you know they don't come across like a movie or TV show.You get a central "message" and your mind fills in details usually with a big assist from the ego. I don't doubt that Paul's central message was to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles, the fact that he succeeded in such a dramatic fashion lends credibility to that.

But..... being an extremely legalistic Jew, I doubt he could conceive of a simple Fellowship with no preachers, deacons,elders and such.

We will never know what Christianity would be today if Paul's letters had not been counted as Scripture. It's for damn sure there would not be as much to argue about.

I doubt any human could ever make me see Saint Paul as anything but a man who loved God but took himself too seriously. There's a lot around like that.

You keep right on thinking that.......I know a couple of preachers daughters that would tell you your full of crap.

I don't believe that Jesus and/or God are ever taken by surprise, and they knew exactly how Their message would be spread. Getting caught off-guard isn't possible with regards to God/Jesus.

I can't agree with that either. I chalk it up to free will, as with everyone else that rebels.

I would agree because if he did he really didn't think it through. but i do think he wants us to help him in that endeavor, someone has to get their attention so they takle a look and decide for themselves. Belittling them with scripture, telling them they will burn in hell for eternity, Ect, Ect. will make very few if any take a look.




To be honest I need to study my name sake a little more but what I do know of him I do believe you're probably correct.