Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 257 Weatherby Barnes too fast?

Tex, mine is a necked down 270 WSM. Pac Nor barreled Remington TI.

Have you tried the 115-120s in it? If so, what kind of MVs are you seeing?

After disappointing results with the older Barnes 'X' bullets, I could never bring myself to use TSX on game. The (now obsolete but I still have some) MRX addressed my concerns by adding the poly tip to help initiate expansion. I've used MRX and TTSX since 2006, as have members of my hunting group, with no drama. Half the animals we've shot have gone straight down, most of the rest have taken just a few steps. One cow I shot went 25 yards but I can't think of any other animal that went nearly that far.

As a result of consistently good results and great accuracy, the tipped Barnes bullets are the ones we use most.

For the record... There is no empty space in the deer's chest. Lungs go all the way the the spine. Also for the record... If you run a high speed rifle bullet through a deer an inch or two below the spine 9 times out of ten you will break the descending aorta which will bleed a deer out in very short order, faster than a blown up heart will empty the body of blood.

Miles: FWIW, he was discussing elk, not deer.

Deer as in deer species. Although all ungulates are the same. No empty space in the chest. Any empty space (air filled space inside the chest) severely compromises lung function.

I shoot barnes 100 gr tsx at 3500 ft/sec with 257 Weatherby and no trouble killing elk. 10 or 12 hit though lungs dead after a few steps.

There is NOT a "gap" between the spine and lungs. There is a mechanical lock between the lungs and chest wall, all the way around the spine. If there was a gap... that would be called a pneumothorax and the animal would die. The issue, and why people believe that there is a "no mans land" is because the pine runs very deep in the body, and what people see as the "spine" is actually the spinous process. The spinous process extends 6+ inches up from the top of the spine. As well, hits tobthe high lungs are not as damaging as lower hits.




.

Miles is correct. As above, there is no dead space.





No mammal has a "gap".

Well, my experience with the TSX's and TTSX's has been quite good in three cartridges -- a 284 Win, a 30/06, and a 375 H&H.

The later two shot the TSXs well and with them I took about ten head of plains game with eleven shots, the extra on a gemsbok that I placed the first one a little high on. With the '06, it was the 165-grain at 2850 fps and it was the 270 TSX at ~ 2700 fps in the 375.. That bullet in the 375 shot less than .5 MOA with 3 shots at a hundred on occasion. But all these cases with the exception of the one mentioned were mid-chest hits and pass-throughs.

The 140-gr TTSX at 3150 out of the 284 has taken a bear, a large mule deer, and a large whitetail at right at 500 yards. This latter was with the 150-gr TTSX at 2900 and showed an admittedly small exit hole but with the bullet transgressing the heart, the buck didn't make 20 yards. These were with three shots and this load (140 grain) would go into slightly more than .6 MOA at 400 yards if I didn't breath and global warming had momentarily slowed.

I was looking for the TBBCs again and it's nice to see them partially available again though in the 284, I'd choose a 140-gr bullet which I don't see. It'll be interesting to see how accurate they are again as bi-metal or -alloy bullets are harder to get to be accurate due to concentricity.

George, Midway has these in 140 gr. 7mm. Is this the bullet used in TBBC Fed.ammo?

www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=Federal+tipped+trophy+bonded+bullets&userItemsPerPage=48

DF

As to the Gap Theory, while there is one in creationism, it's missing in animals. And, no, a one-lung pneumothorax will not necessarily kill and certainly not quickly on a wild, vital big game animal suddenly thrown into flight mode. Humans can walk around with partial pneumo's though they generally don't feel too well. While a hemothorax is a more sure thing depending on how large and the volume of blood lost. A pneumo- without a hemo- on a shot big game animal would be quite unlikely.

The cupola of the lungs run somewhat parallel with the lower edge of the spinal column as far as they go generally and the aorta runs parallel in there too with some anatomical variation in some hoofed animals. Gemsbok have the very long spinous processes that give them the very deep chest look. While arrows and bullets can and do slip through various solid body areas from time to time and may be lost, I'm convinced most, most, of these animals expire.

Yeah, I'm quite sure it is and thanks; I'm going to give those a try.

I just got a box of 160's to try in my 8 twist Brux 7RM.

Will try RL-26.

DF

I can't imagine generally that a TTSX could go too fast unless there were some degree of production error that caused the mono- to be too hard and brittle in which it might break up on bone, or just way too soft. And if with regular TTSXs, petals fly off for whatever reason they become secondary, diverging mssiles, causing potentially even more damage than just the primary path damage an intact bullet would cause.

It never hurt Nosler Partitions to lose roughly 40% (+\-) of their weight en route through whatever beastie they meet. In fact they were made that way.

I don't worry about TTSX/TSX losing petals.

Check out Cutting Edge Raptor bullets; their monos are designed to shed petals as shrapnel flying out at 360*s from the projectile as it hits flesh. I've have excellent results (accuracy and terminal performance) with them in .308 and .375 H&H.

It seems no two shots are exactly the same, shoot enough and you'll see variations from the "norm".

While monos don't have a velecity ceiling, one needs to be aware of what terminal performance is/could be at various velocities.

As I've posted before, matching bullet design and velocity for optimal results is more art than science.

DF

Just curious- Has anyone seen the Nosler 120 grain Partition fail at 257 Weatherby velocities?

No. I've seen animals shot with that combination from pronghorns at 300+ yards to a 6x6 bull elk at 100. However, the elk was shot broadside, closely behind the shoulder bones, so the bullet only hit flesh and ribs. It exited, leaving a pretty good-sized hole--which was not needed because the bull took off down the mountainside and soon ran head-on into a big conifer, obviously dead on its feet.

Velocity with a monolithic is beneficial. Sectional density for close range is my concern. If it is above a .20 u should be good 2 go.

S.D., 80 gr. .257 TTSX is .173.

Check this observation about the 80 gr. TTSX at 3,900+ fps out of a .257 Wby being less than effective for a cull hunt.

www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12175458

Waiting on Model70guy to respond to the question of why he considers this load to be a "POS".

I think I know the answer, but will see what he says.

DF


Edited to add, the 80 gr. 6mm TTSX/3600+ fps load that I had issues with, that bullet has an S.D. of .194.

So, maybe the .20+ S.D. value may have terminal performance importance with small TTSX/TSX bullets pushed at very high speeds. More info needed.

Here's Model70guy's response on another thread.

www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12177399

DF