Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 6.5 Creedmoor on Elk

True, but I guess it depends on where you live, to start with. My elk hunting varies from 1 hour to 5 hours, from the house....not much money required. My elk hunting takes place in the timber, with less than "ideal" shot presentations, most often the case. I use larger calibers with heavy bullets, that can still handle longer shots, if needed. I wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .338, myself. But, if it's open country, and you can pick your shots, I'm sure it will work. That's just not what I run in to, where I hunt.

Andy3

Steve,

I'm a bit puzzled by the "160-grain Nosler" you mention using in your 1903.

I've seen the 160-grain Hornady break both shoulders of a whitetail and exit--and also seen it fail to reach the far side of the chest on a broadside rib shot, both at a muzzle velocity of about 2200 fps from my 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Phil Shoemaker has seen the same sort of performance from that bullet. I have yet to see any such performance from a 140-grain Nosler Partition.

My favorite heavyweight 6.5mm bullet is the 156-grain Norma Oryx, a bonded bullet. It opens and penetrates reliably, but tends to open up wider than a Partition so doesn't penetrate any deeper. However, it's not a round-nose, instead a spitzer with a sflat meplat, something like the Speer Grand Slam. To get it to feed reliably in my M-S (a custom carbine built on a "1930 System" military action) I have to file a small radius on the edge of the flat tip.

I did a lot of elk hunting in the Selway wilderness when I was in my 20s and 30s. Andy3 is right, a large caliber gun with a heavy bullet is nice in there. I have run 300 grain 375H&H bullets through elk many times from rear to front hunting in the Selway, because it was the only shot I could get. I never had one go more than a body length when I did it too.
I learned fast that a high velocity light weight bullet was NOT the way to go. I saw 3 elk hit with 300 magnums with the wrong bullets and the bullets didn't get through them. We brought all 3 to bag, but it was not the perfect hunt by any means. The ones that worked were the 220 grain loads in 300 and 30-06 and the shell I remember being super effective was a 45-70 with 450 grain cast bullets. That was just as good as my 375, faster for a 2nd shot (which was never really needed) shorter, lighter and probably the best all-around rifle I ever saw used for that area as an elk rifle.

My last 2 years there I gave up on rifles 100% and just carried a 454 Casull. It was no disadvantage at all. I never killed an elk in Idaho over 40 yards anyway, and many of them were at about 25 yards. I killed one at about 6 feet.
That country is steep and THICK!

Oops I meant to wrote 160 gr Hornady not Nosler.
Sorry john.

I just got 500 of the PPU bullets in 156 grain. I have never killed anything with them, and I don't know anyone that has either.
But they feedin my old rifle action.
My old 1903 M/S has the feed ramp of the earliest design. Any spitzer makes the nose of the bullet hit the back end of the barrel and miss the chamber. The oldest M/S rifles depend on the radius of the RN bullet to "aim" it towards the chamber, and it was a common enough complaints that sometime in the 20s Mannlicher changed the feed ramp to come up about .020" so the popular 129 and 140 grain sporting loads would work too.
( I was told by a German gunsmith I know that they used the same geometry even on their military rifles after that change, because it lost nothing in function to the RN Bullets, and allowed for the receivers to be made for civilian sale and military contracts both, all on the same milling set-up)
But for those of us with the very old actions we are forced to use the RN bullets to make them work.

Because the early action has a lower ramp, it's not practical to modify them to work with spitzers. You can easily remove metal, but it's a chore to put it back, and welding up to regrind is OK, but then you need to re-heat treat too. More work than I want to do as long as I can get RN bullets. So I just use the old RN bullets.

I was hoping the 160 Gr Hornady was going to do all I want, but if you recommend against it from experience I may shy away from it on elk. Do you have any info on the 156 gr RN PPU bullets?

szihn

That country was where the 33's were born and bred if you overlook the Jeffrey and other African kin. Elmer had it right and wolves have not made anything easier but I bet there were plenty of them during Elmer's packing days too.

The Creedmoor will no doubt kill elk and it would be hard to tell the difference from it and a .270. But if in black timber I would pick a bigger caliber just for Elmer's sake if nothing else.

I now live a long way from many of the places I want to hunt, so I'm skewed for trips vs. rifles. In fact, I sold a Kimber Montana to offset costs of drawing two limited entry tags in ID in the same year. Like I said, just a different perspective.

Steve,

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience (or any info) on the 156 PPU bullets.

Must also note that when I started serious hunting elk in the 1970's, it was in Montana over near the border of the Idaho panhandle, which is also thick timber country. Eventually I used the .30-06 with 200-grain Nosler Partitions at about 2600 fps, and never had any trouble with penetration from about any angle. Only one stayed inside an elk, and that was a shot right under the tailbone. Never did find it but the elk died pretty much right there. Those were the old model 200's, the "semi-spitzer" design. Over the years I've found they penetrate just about as well as 250 Partitions from the .338.

Elk aren't that hard to kill... put a bullet in the boiler and it's over. Hit around the edges and you've got problems, no matter what you're shooting.

I'd be happy to use a Creedmoor for the rest of my elk-hunting life and have no doubt I would have no issue if I did my part. My own choice of bullet would be a 140 Partition or 130 or 140 Accubond.

I wonder how much sugar and sweet talk it would take to get Nosler to make a 160 grain .264" Round Nose?

C&H probably doesn't bring that much sugar in from Hawaii in 5 years..........................
(Dang!)

There's a chance I'll be using my 6.5 Creedmoor on elk this fall. It shoots 140 Partitions really well.

I have asked them for years for a similar bullet but so far nothing yet. I wouldn't mind a Partition but think one of their newer Bonded Solid Base bullets might even be better, either way I would prefer a protected point or spitzer more than a round nose and I would be happy if it weighed 150-156 gr. My favourite bullet in my 270 Win is the 160 gr Partition semi spitzer, took my last 3 black bears with them and love how they work.

To add to my previous post Sheldon and perhaps others took every species of big game in North America with a 6.5x54 MS which is anemic compared to the Creedmoor. This included the big bears, walrus. musk ox and moose. Bell, Hemingway and Ruark took most of the big five in Africa with the same cartridge, It was featured in Hemingway's tale of the short but happy life of Francis Macamber.

Confidence is everything go for it.

There was a situation last year during late season involving a herd of cow elk.... as my son flopped down and readied the .260, that scene at the beginning of Pulp Fiction popped into my head, and I literally said out loud: "We should have a Seven Mag for this schitt." In the end, it didn't work out... and a 7mm Mag would have made no difference. But, I found it interesting that for the first time I can ever remember.... I actually wanted more gun than what was at hand.

Just talking at the range I've heard of a few around here killed with Creedmoors. Two were killed with the 127gr LRX, one popped through the shoulders blades and lungs went down, bullet not captured, the other was gut shot first, then finished off with what sounds like a steeply angled shot, and the second bullet didn't exit. The last was a bull killed with a single 143gr ELDx.... at 775 yds.

I think I'm going to try to fill my cow tags with my 6.5CM Montana this year. I have good loads for the 140gr Accubond (@ 2,760 fps) and the 127gr LRX (@ 2,920 fps) that I'm still deciding between. The 127gr load is flatter and a hair more accurate, but I think I'm going to go with the Accubond for a wider wound channel. I just got a B&C reticle installed on my 2.5x8x36 VX-3i, and sighted in with first bar down at 300yds, the 140s are very close out to 500 yds. Personally, I won't be shooting past 400 yds, and probably not past 300 yds, so I'm pretty confident either bullet would work.

Think I would have had those same thoughts...

Whether justified or not...

DF

Caliber and bullet selection has everything to do with matching them to the situation you anticipate, while elk hunting. Black timber hunting for mature bulls requires a much tougher bullet than shooting cows or raghorn bulls in open country. Mature bulls are a much tougher animal than a cow or immature bull, and can take alot more punishment. To me, I equate a cow elk to a large mule deer, in terms of toughness.

IF you have the discipline to wait for the perfect broadside shot, in the timber, any of these mentioned calibers and bullets will work. Hell.....bowhunters get it done every year, with a stick and razor blade. BUT, the successful ones are the most disciplined and are willing to pass on a marginal shot. One chance may be all you get, where I hunt. So, I drive a 300 gr swift a-frame through the vitals. No matter the angle, I get an exit hole. The first 4 bulls I killed with this way were between 16 and 32 yards, and all dropped at the shot....with very little meat damage. That heavy bullet means you can eat right up to the bullet hole. I can't say that with faster/lighter set ups.

Another thing to take into consideration is, are you hunting a general season or a draw hunt? Or....are you on public land or private? Many hunters that are not familiar with hunting the west, base their decisions on what they see on hunting programs. Most of those hunts are limited entry, either by the number of tags issued OR access to private land OR both. This is huge in how the elk react to the pressure, or lack of pressure. Public land, over the counter, elk hunts here in Idaho puts the bulls down into the darkest/deepest black timber canyons you can imagine. A far cry from what makes up most of the elk hunting shows, on tv. Those black canyons would not make for good filming conditions, for sure! Add a month of elk bowhunters and packs of wolves, and these elk are on TILT!

So, it all comes down to the shot presentation you anticipate, and chose the best combination to get it done. Out of my several bull elk rifles, they are dedicated to 338 rum for long range or a 375 H&H for black timber. I scale back to a 300 win, if open country cow elk is what I'm doing. The deciding factor, is the worse case scenario. I take the rifle and bullet combo, that covers it. Sometimes I have 2 rifles in the truck, the 338 for clear cuts at first light and last light.....and then swap to the 375 while still hunting the timber, in the middle of the day. This has proven very deadly.

BTW, the gun in my safe that has the most elk to it's credit is a 22 mag. A friend of mine had an elk farm, and when it was butcher time, he would borrow it. Shot in the head, in a squeeze chute, is probably the most "high percentage" shot there is!!! :o)

Sorry about the long post, but this is what I have learned from 37 years of elk hunting in New Mexico and Idaho. It has worked VERY well for me. BTW, I have used .308, .270, and 30-06's during this learning experience, but now they stay home and wait for deer season. Elk meat is very important at my house, and I try to keep the odds in my favor.

Andy3

I've hunted elk with a .44 Mag, .30-30, .375 Win, ..257Roberts, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-06, .300WM, .338WM and 45-70. With some I knew I was limiting my options using the selected cartridge. More than once I wished I had a cartridge with more reach. Most of the time I knew what I used wouldn't make a difference, but never once have I wished I had a less capable cartridge,

For the record.... I'd have felt equally under-gunned had we been shooting a .270 Win....

We just would have been squatting to pee while it was happening....

My feeling is if your not going to step up to a 300 Magnum (I use 200 grain bullets in a 300 Weatherby) you should go bigger and slower with a 358 Winchester (Like my teenagers used) or a 338 RCM (Which I use with 225 grain bullets because it comes in such a handy gun) or their ilk.

I am fortunate to hunt elk often with a tribe of native Americans, the young guys with 270s 30-06s and 7mm Rem Magnums are always surprised how little tracking I do after the shot. That is the value of the right choice,

I will say while its your decision, if your asking an internet forum how sure are you of your choice? I think you would be better off with a 30-06.

I would never let my kids hunt elk with that kind of poor choice in cartridges, even if it was a cow hunt.

Some good points here. I've used a .260 with 140 gr Corelokts on several caribou to over 300 yards, one cow elk at @150, and a wolf at maybe 40. All bang flops when hit properly. That one bull caribou first hit in the end of his pecker doesn't count. He just walked funny until I put a second round through his lungs.... My bad on judging range and wind by eyeball.

If a .308 using a 150 grain bullet is considered by some to be adequate bullet for whatever, how is 140 grains from a .260 different enough to matter?

As mentioned, in heavy cover such as black timber elk hunting, a monster shutzenboomer is likely a better bet, IMO, especially if doing "raking" shots or THS. I use a .338WM for moose hunting in the thick stuff, but have ambitions to take a moose with the .260. I won't feel under gunned with the .260 since my shots are close (average for 20+ bulls is about 70 yards), and I've gone to CNS shots when I can get them. Not under gunned on a moose, anyway.

The reason I upped my old moose gun from '06 to the .338 was those 2-gallon piles of steaming brown bear poop I sometimes encountered. Probably no real difference, but it made me feel better...

That might also be a consideration in elk/Griz country.