Anyone here use a 6.5 to hunt elk? Heading to Colorado in Oct and will be carrying my Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creed. I carried it last year and was able to take a my first mule deer. I hand load and shoot the 143 eldx bullet. Have pretty good success with H4350 powder although its not the fastest shooting round ever it is very accurate. Any success stories or experience would be appreciated.
You fellas can hunt with whatever lets you sleep at night, but in my opinion there is no better elk load than a Barnes TTSX launched from a fast 7mm or .300 magnum. I don't use .257's or 6.5s for elk and never will. I'm a huge fan of the .257 Roberts and .250-3000 Savage, just not for elk sized beasts. One of two possibilities is likely; cripple and lose an animal and hate yourself for a long while or get lucky and put one in the dirt and join those who pride themselves on using the smallest caliber possible to kill the largest critters. Happy Trails
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
I am with you WAM, but here, many of the elk areas are in very open country.. It lets a guy take his time and place a shot.. If you have ranged the possible shot, when it comes you are ready.. I just feel that sometimes a small caliber lets game escape.. I am certain I have had less than satisfactory results on game much small than elk with light calibers..
I'm sure my CM would kill an elk. I've loaded a number of bullets to test, 147 ELD's, etc.
But, if I'm gonna pay the money, take the time, travel a long ways to bag an elk, think I'll take my 7RM with 160 gr. NAB's or equivalent. Maybe my 300 WM with 180's. Probably leave the CM at home, use it on WTs, etc.
WAM has a good point no doubt. I know my gun and my limits and will only take shots accordingly. I actually drew a mule deer tag and will be hunting them in CO and was thinking about also buying a elk tag. I am still trying to decide what to take.
Don't underestimate any 6.5 cartridge, they kill way above their pay grade, even the lowly 6.5X55 with lowly core-lokt ammunition. 15 years without a lost animal so the 6.5 Creedmor should do it even better. Last year's mule deer (killed with my Creedmor) dropped as if hit with the hammer of Thor much like all the rest with the old 6.5X55 I owned, which dropped a 5X5 elk at close to two hundred yards never moved from the spot it was hit. Imagine the paltry muzzle velocity of factory Remington ammunition in that caliber hitting the neck of a bull at 200 yards, pales in comparison to a 7 Mag or a .300 Winny or Bee but same result,very verydead bull!
Experience is what you get, when you don't get what you want!
I intend to try my elk hunting this year with my 6.5X54 Mann/Scho, but I don't trust the "long range" bullets as much as I trust the older tried and true 160 grain RN bullets. if I had a CM I'd use the heavier 160 if they will fit, and if not I'd go with the 140 Gr Nosler Partitions.
I've had erratic results from the "tried and true" 160 RN bullets in the 6.5x54. Wouldn't hesitate to use any of the smaller 6.5's on elk with the 140 Partition.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I'll have a Creedmoor loaded with 140-grain Hot Cores or Interlocks on our elk hunt this winter, if that's worth anything. If something goes wrong with both of the Creedmoors, I guess I'll have my 6.5-284 out there(?). I don't own a rifle of larger caliber than 26 any more, and I don't feel under-gunned.
I'm real pleased with my 264 win mag for elk or anything else that walks around here in CO. And I have shot a 300weatherby, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 325WSM among others, There's not much difference between a 140gr .277 bullet in a 270 and a 140/143gr in a 6.5
An armed member in a country is a citizen, an unarmed member is a subject.
John tell me about the erratic results. I have found only 2 bullets that feed in my M1903, a 156 gr PPU and the 160 gr Nosler. The old 160 gr Sierra did too, but they stopped making it. I have not had bad results with the 160 gr Hornady, but then I have only used in in the past in 260 Rem and in 6.5X55. Of all the deer and antelope I have seen killed with it, the total is only 5, and there are 3 elk I know of killed with it, but not by me. So any details are appreciated.
Anyone here use a 6.5 to hunt elk? Heading to Colorado in Oct and will be carrying my Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creed. I carried it last year and was able to take a my first mule deer. I hand load and shoot the 143 eldx bullet. Have pretty good success with H4350 powder although its not the fastest shooting round ever it is very accurate. Any success stories or experience would be appreciated.
That combo should work fine. What the 7mm RM 160g Speer Grand Slam load I used for 20+ years will do at 500 yard, the 6.5 CM load will do at 400. The Grand Slam load never failed me.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
Anyone here use a 6.5 to hunt elk? Heading to Colorado in Oct and will be carrying my Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creed. I carried it last year and was able to take a my first mule deer. I hand load and shoot the 143 eldx bullet. Have pretty good success with H4350 powder although its not the fastest shooting round ever it is very accurate. Any success stories or experience would be appreciated.
That combo should work fine. What the 7mm RM 160g Speer Grand Slam load I used for 20+ years will do at 500 yard, the 6.5 CM load will do at 400. The Grand Slam load never failed me.
True, but I guess it depends on where you live, to start with. My elk hunting varies from 1 hour to 5 hours, from the house....not much money required. My elk hunting takes place in the timber, with less than "ideal" shot presentations, most often the case. I use larger calibers with heavy bullets, that can still handle longer shots, if needed. I wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .338, myself. But, if it's open country, and you can pick your shots, I'm sure it will work. That's just not what I run in to, where I hunt.
I'm a bit puzzled by the "160-grain Nosler" you mention using in your 1903.
I've seen the 160-grain Hornady break both shoulders of a whitetail and exit--and also seen it fail to reach the far side of the chest on a broadside rib shot, both at a muzzle velocity of about 2200 fps from my 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Phil Shoemaker has seen the same sort of performance from that bullet. I have yet to see any such performance from a 140-grain Nosler Partition.
My favorite heavyweight 6.5mm bullet is the 156-grain Norma Oryx, a bonded bullet. It opens and penetrates reliably, but tends to open up wider than a Partition so doesn't penetrate any deeper. However, it's not a round-nose, instead a spitzer with a sflat meplat, something like the Speer Grand Slam. To get it to feed reliably in my M-S (a custom carbine built on a "1930 System" military action) I have to file a small radius on the edge of the flat tip.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I did a lot of elk hunting in the Selway wilderness when I was in my 20s and 30s. Andy3 is right, a large caliber gun with a heavy bullet is nice in there. I have run 300 grain 375H&H bullets through elk many times from rear to front hunting in the Selway, because it was the only shot I could get. I never had one go more than a body length when I did it too. I learned fast that a high velocity light weight bullet was NOT the way to go. I saw 3 elk hit with 300 magnums with the wrong bullets and the bullets didn't get through them. We brought all 3 to bag, but it was not the perfect hunt by any means. The ones that worked were the 220 grain loads in 300 and 30-06 and the shell I remember being super effective was a 45-70 with 450 grain cast bullets. That was just as good as my 375, faster for a 2nd shot (which was never really needed) shorter, lighter and probably the best all-around rifle I ever saw used for that area as an elk rifle.
My last 2 years there I gave up on rifles 100% and just carried a 454 Casull. It was no disadvantage at all. I never killed an elk in Idaho over 40 yards anyway, and many of them were at about 25 yards. I killed one at about 6 feet. That country is steep and THICK!
Oops I meant to wrote 160 gr Hornady not Nosler. Sorry john.
I just got 500 of the PPU bullets in 156 grain. I have never killed anything with them, and I don't know anyone that has either. But they feedin my old rifle action. My old 1903 M/S has the feed ramp of the earliest design. Any spitzer makes the nose of the bullet hit the back end of the barrel and miss the chamber. The oldest M/S rifles depend on the radius of the RN bullet to "aim" it towards the chamber, and it was a common enough complaints that sometime in the 20s Mannlicher changed the feed ramp to come up about .020" so the popular 129 and 140 grain sporting loads would work too. ( I was told by a German gunsmith I know that they used the same geometry even on their military rifles after that change, because it lost nothing in function to the RN Bullets, and allowed for the receivers to be made for civilian sale and military contracts both, all on the same milling set-up) But for those of us with the very old actions we are forced to use the RN bullets to make them work.
Because the early action has a lower ramp, it's not practical to modify them to work with spitzers. You can easily remove metal, but it's a chore to put it back, and welding up to regrind is OK, but then you need to re-heat treat too. More work than I want to do as long as I can get RN bullets. So I just use the old RN bullets.
I was hoping the 160 Gr Hornady was going to do all I want, but if you recommend against it from experience I may shy away from it on elk. Do you have any info on the 156 gr RN PPU bullets?
That country was where the 33's were born and bred if you overlook the Jeffrey and other African kin. Elmer had it right and wolves have not made anything easier but I bet there were plenty of them during Elmer's packing days too.
The Creedmoor will no doubt kill elk and it would be hard to tell the difference from it and a .270. But if in black timber I would pick a bigger caliber just for Elmer's sake if nothing else.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
True, but I guess it depends on where you live, to start with. My elk hunting varies from 1 hour to 5 hours, from the house....not much money required. My elk hunting takes place in the timber, with less than "ideal" shot presentations, most often the case. I use larger calibers with heavy bullets, that can still handle longer shots, if needed. I wouldn't carry anything smaller than a .338, myself. But, if it's open country, and you can pick your shots, I'm sure it will work. That's just not what I run in to, where I hunt.
Andy3
I now live a long way from many of the places I want to hunt, so I'm skewed for trips vs. rifles. In fact, I sold a Kimber Montana to offset costs of drawing two limited entry tags in ID in the same year. Like I said, just a different perspective.
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience (or any info) on the 156 PPU bullets.
Must also note that when I started serious hunting elk in the 1970's, it was in Montana over near the border of the Idaho panhandle, which is also thick timber country. Eventually I used the .30-06 with 200-grain Nosler Partitions at about 2600 fps, and never had any trouble with penetration from about any angle. Only one stayed inside an elk, and that was a shot right under the tailbone. Never did find it but the elk died pretty much right there. Those were the old model 200's, the "semi-spitzer" design. Over the years I've found they penetrate just about as well as 250 Partitions from the .338.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Elk aren't that hard to kill... put a bullet in the boiler and it's over. Hit around the edges and you've got problems, no matter what you're shooting.
I'd be happy to use a Creedmoor for the rest of my elk-hunting life and have no doubt I would have no issue if I did my part. My own choice of bullet would be a 140 Partition or 130 or 140 Accubond.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I wonder how much sugar and sweet talk it would take to get Nosler to make a 160 grain .264" Round Nose?
C&H probably doesn't bring that much sugar in from Hawaii in 5 years.......................... (Dang!)
I have asked them for years for a similar bullet but so far nothing yet. I wouldn't mind a Partition but think one of their newer Bonded Solid Base bullets might even be better, either way I would prefer a protected point or spitzer more than a round nose and I would be happy if it weighed 150-156 gr. My favourite bullet in my 270 Win is the 160 gr Partition semi spitzer, took my last 3 black bears with them and love how they work.
To add to my previous post Sheldon and perhaps others took every species of big game in North America with a 6.5x54 MS which is anemic compared to the Creedmoor. This included the big bears, walrus. musk ox and moose. Bell, Hemingway and Ruark took most of the big five in Africa with the same cartridge, It was featured in Hemingway's tale of the short but happy life of Francis Macamber.
Confidence is everything go for it.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
There was a situation last year during late season involving a herd of cow elk.... as my son flopped down and readied the .260, that scene at the beginning of Pulp Fiction popped into my head, and I literally said out loud: "We should have a Seven Mag for this schitt." In the end, it didn't work out... and a 7mm Mag would have made no difference. But, I found it interesting that for the first time I can ever remember.... I actually wanted more gun than what was at hand.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
Just talking at the range I've heard of a few around here killed with Creedmoors. Two were killed with the 127gr LRX, one popped through the shoulders blades and lungs went down, bullet not captured, the other was gut shot first, then finished off with what sounds like a steeply angled shot, and the second bullet didn't exit. The last was a bull killed with a single 143gr ELDx.... at 775 yds.
I think I'm going to try to fill my cow tags with my 6.5CM Montana this year. I have good loads for the 140gr Accubond (@ 2,760 fps) and the 127gr LRX (@ 2,920 fps) that I'm still deciding between. The 127gr load is flatter and a hair more accurate, but I think I'm going to go with the Accubond for a wider wound channel. I just got a B&C reticle installed on my 2.5x8x36 VX-3i, and sighted in with first bar down at 300yds, the 140s are very close out to 500 yds. Personally, I won't be shooting past 400 yds, and probably not past 300 yds, so I'm pretty confident either bullet would work.
There was a situation last year during late season involving a herd of cow elk.... as my son flopped down and readied the .260, that scene at the beginning of Pulp Fiction popped into my head, and I literally said out loud: "We should have a Seven Mag for this schitt." In the end, it didn't work out... and a 7mm Mag would have made no difference. But, I found it interesting that for the first time I can ever remember.... I actually wanted more gun than what was at hand.
Caliber and bullet selection has everything to do with matching them to the situation you anticipate, while elk hunting. Black timber hunting for mature bulls requires a much tougher bullet than shooting cows or raghorn bulls in open country. Mature bulls are a much tougher animal than a cow or immature bull, and can take alot more punishment. To me, I equate a cow elk to a large mule deer, in terms of toughness.
IF you have the discipline to wait for the perfect broadside shot, in the timber, any of these mentioned calibers and bullets will work. Hell.....bowhunters get it done every year, with a stick and razor blade. BUT, the successful ones are the most disciplined and are willing to pass on a marginal shot. One chance may be all you get, where I hunt. So, I drive a 300 gr swift a-frame through the vitals. No matter the angle, I get an exit hole. The first 4 bulls I killed with this way were between 16 and 32 yards, and all dropped at the shot....with very little meat damage. That heavy bullet means you can eat right up to the bullet hole. I can't say that with faster/lighter set ups.
Another thing to take into consideration is, are you hunting a general season or a draw hunt? Or....are you on public land or private? Many hunters that are not familiar with hunting the west, base their decisions on what they see on hunting programs. Most of those hunts are limited entry, either by the number of tags issued OR access to private land OR both. This is huge in how the elk react to the pressure, or lack of pressure. Public land, over the counter, elk hunts here in Idaho puts the bulls down into the darkest/deepest black timber canyons you can imagine. A far cry from what makes up most of the elk hunting shows, on tv. Those black canyons would not make for good filming conditions, for sure! Add a month of elk bowhunters and packs of wolves, and these elk are on TILT!
So, it all comes down to the shot presentation you anticipate, and chose the best combination to get it done. Out of my several bull elk rifles, they are dedicated to 338 rum for long range or a 375 H&H for black timber. I scale back to a 300 win, if open country cow elk is what I'm doing. The deciding factor, is the worse case scenario. I take the rifle and bullet combo, that covers it. Sometimes I have 2 rifles in the truck, the 338 for clear cuts at first light and last light.....and then swap to the 375 while still hunting the timber, in the middle of the day. This has proven very deadly.
BTW, the gun in my safe that has the most elk to it's credit is a 22 mag. A friend of mine had an elk farm, and when it was butcher time, he would borrow it. Shot in the head, in a squeeze chute, is probably the most "high percentage" shot there is!!! :o)
Sorry about the long post, but this is what I have learned from 37 years of elk hunting in New Mexico and Idaho. It has worked VERY well for me. BTW, I have used .308, .270, and 30-06's during this learning experience, but now they stay home and wait for deer season. Elk meat is very important at my house, and I try to keep the odds in my favor.
There was a situation last year during late season involving a herd of cow elk.... as my son flopped down and readied the .260, that scene at the beginning of Pulp Fiction popped into my head, and I literally said out loud: "We should have a Seven Mag for this schitt." In the end, it didn't work out... and a 7mm Mag would have made no difference. But, I found it interesting that for the first time I can ever remember.... I actually wanted more gun than what was at hand.
I've hunted elk with a .44 Mag, .30-30, .375 Win, ..257Roberts, .280 Rem, 7mm RM, .30-06, .300WM, .338WM and 45-70. With some I knew I was limiting my options using the selected cartridge. More than once I wished I had a cartridge with more reach. Most of the time I knew what I used wouldn't make a difference, but never once have I wished I had a less capable cartridge,
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
My feeling is if your not going to step up to a 300 Magnum (I use 200 grain bullets in a 300 Weatherby) you should go bigger and slower with a 358 Winchester (Like my teenagers used) or a 338 RCM (Which I use with 225 grain bullets because it comes in such a handy gun) or their ilk.
I am fortunate to hunt elk often with a tribe of native Americans, the young guys with 270s 30-06s and 7mm Rem Magnums are always surprised how little tracking I do after the shot. That is the value of the right choice,
I will say while its your decision, if your asking an internet forum how sure are you of your choice? I think you would be better off with a 30-06.
I would never let my kids hunt elk with that kind of poor choice in cartridges, even if it was a cow hunt.
Some good points here. I've used a .260 with 140 gr Corelokts on several caribou to over 300 yards, one cow elk at @150, and a wolf at maybe 40. All bang flops when hit properly. That one bull caribou first hit in the end of his pecker doesn't count. He just walked funny until I put a second round through his lungs.... My bad on judging range and wind by eyeball.
If a .308 using a 150 grain bullet is considered by some to be adequate bullet for whatever, how is 140 grains from a .260 different enough to matter?
As mentioned, in heavy cover such as black timber elk hunting, a monster shutzenboomer is likely a better bet, IMO, especially if doing "raking" shots or THS. I use a .338WM for moose hunting in the thick stuff, but have ambitions to take a moose with the .260. I won't feel under gunned with the .260 since my shots are close (average for 20+ bulls is about 70 yards), and I've gone to CNS shots when I can get them. Not under gunned on a moose, anyway.
The reason I upped my old moose gun from '06 to the .338 was those 2-gallon piles of steaming brown bear poop I sometimes encountered. Probably no real difference, but it made me feel better...
That might also be a consideration in elk/Griz country.
While pondering this notion of using a 6.5 whatever I thought back to the dozen plus elk I've harvested. Most died instantly from a 210 Nosler Partition out of a 338-06 improved, but three succumbed to lead poisoning from 160 7mm bullets either in the 7mm RSAM, 280 or 280AI. Now that I have a 6.5/284 I'm pondering using it with 142 LRAB this fall on a guided elk hunt in Idaho's Salmon River breaks. Lessons from previous hunts however have taught me more is better for elk, even though something smaller in diameter might work just fine. I'm not inclined to the suffer the painful agony of losing an elk just because I wanted to try something new and different. Yeah, the 6.5 something will get it done. Somehow I feel more comfortable with the old axiom mass x speed equals more certainty.
As much as I would love to kill an elk with my .260, I really have a hard time justifying it, with a pair of 7 mags sitting in the safe. I have seen too many good results with 160 Partitions, to experiment with a light caliber. I drew a cow elk permit this year for just south of my house here in Nebraska. The permits are too hard to come by, to not use all of the horsepower that I have at my disposal. I really like my .260 and it HAMMERS deer at whatever range, but I think the 7 mag is going to get the nod.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
Like LAS, I used to think a .308 Win with a 165 gr Speer Grand Slam was all that and a bag of chips until a couple of big brown furry clawed critter encounters. Upped the ante to my .35 Whelen and never looked back. Now I hunt the open brush country in NW Colorado with it or a 7mm Weatherby or .300 Weatherby. Also killed my lifetime best 182 mule deer at 38 yards with the .300 Roy. Certainly in range for any legal cartridge! But how often does that happen? I prefer to bring more than just adequate to the hunt, especially for a 5 day 4th season hunt. That way, no regrets later. Good luck out there this fall! Happy Trails
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
As much as I would love to kill an elk with my .260, I really have a hard time justifying it, with a pair of 7 mags sitting in the safe. I have seen too many good results with 160 Partitions, to experiment with a light caliber. I drew a cow elk permit this year for just south of my house here in Nebraska. The permits are too hard to come by, to not use all of the horsepower that I have at my disposal. I really like my .260 and it HAMMERS deer at whatever range, but I think the 7 mag is going to get the nod.
Although I've hunted with less powerful cartridges than the 7mm RM, and may do so again, I tend to agree -- The .44 Mag got hunted because Dad gave it to me, the .30-30 because I wanted to and the .257 Roberts got stoked with 120 A-Frames at 2947fps. In every case I knew I was limiting the range at which I could take shots (less so with the Roberts) and I was OK with that. Biggest bull I've ever had my sights on was at 100 yards with the .44 Mag. Let it go because my buddy had just put one down with my 7mm RM and I figured we had enough work ahead of us. A couple days later we saw the same (we think) bull at 100-125 yards and I let it go because it was end of the last day and I decided not to ruin a perfectly good hunt with a lot of back-breaking work. That time I had the 7mm RM in hand.
To anyone intent on putting elk meat in the freezer, I recommend staying away from the smaller cartridges if they have and can shoot larger. For Daughter #1 I recommended a .308/130TTSX because she is petite and hates recoil. She doesn't even like the 150's in the .308, but she shoots the 130's' great. Would have preferred a more capable combination for her but bowed to known limits of the shooter.
AFAIC, my 'elk' rifles start with my .280 Rem.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 08/04/17. Reason: spelnig
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
While I don't own a 6.5 Creedmore, I do own a 6.5x55 in a CZ 550 American w/ a single stage trigger. Since I am confident in my marksmanship, I would not hesitate to use it on Elk or Moose, provided I used a quality 156-160 gr. pill, i.e. the Norma Oryx, the Hornady SST, or Swift A-Frame or Scirocco. Sectional density of the 6.5x55 with 156-160 grain bullets is around .328, which is more than adequate for Elk and you can be assured of deep, straight-line penetration. Of course, shot placement is key and a larger, faster caliber will not make up for poor shot placement.
There are, of course, many other suitable calibers for Elk. Since I prefer to avoid heavy recoil, and I also prefer the old classic calibers, other calibers I would consider would be the .270, 7x57, .30-06 and the .35 Whelen, depending on the terrain and distances I'd expect to encounter.
Last edited by High_Noon; 08/04/17.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right. - Del Gue
That one bull caribou first hit in the end of his pecker doesn't count. He just walked funny until I put a second round through his lungs.... My bad on judging range and wind by eyeball.
That one bull caribou first hit in the end of his pecker doesn't count. He just walked funny until I put a second round through his lungs.... My bad on judging range and wind by eyeball.
Wouldn't hesitate to use any of the smaller 6.5's on elk with the 140 Partition.
I didn't hesitate, and have killed a couple of nice bulls with this bullet. Complete penetration at 250 yds.
In my opinion, still the best 6.5 bullet for bull elk.
Maybe the way to go for my Wife's Elk hunt, likely between the 140NPT and the 120TTSX I asked about earlier, I will start loading to see how these 2 shoot in her rifle in about a week, so far that RAP likes almost everything I have tried. It is noteworthy that the 140NPT is praised the most here & I did see her kill one Elk with her 6.5x55 with that bullet & it did well.
You will not make peace with the Blue Coats, you are free to go
I had a young man considering his first rifle purchase ask what about the 6.5 creedmor for an elk rifle as that is his goal in a few years. I told him it was maybe the best cartridge going for targets, a good deer killer and an unnecessary handicap when hunting elk. I like the 300's with good 180 grain bullets to maximize my chances both near and far.
I suggest the 30-06 with stout 165-180 grain bullets is a really nice starting point for elk guns. We hunt black timber less than 20% of the time and sage oak brush or similar the rest so 11-550 yards has been what my experience with extremes has been. The 6.5 can certainly do most of that job but why go with less rifle than optimum. I do understand that many members of the younger generation don't like discomfort but half a second of recoil a few dozen times doesn't seem too bad to shoot a good elk load.
Elk just aren't that hard to kill. Bigger rounds make a more immediate impression, and can put them down a few seconds faster (sometimes), but dead is dead. The smarter way is to use a round you can shoot well, year in and year out, because shot placement trumps sheer horesepower, and shot placement is directly tied to shootability. It's all well and good to talk about a nano-second of recoil a few dozen times a year, but that's not the way to good marksmanship. Yanking a trigger is a good way to create a merry chase. I'll take a guy who is familiar and comfortable with his rifle over the guy that shoots a couple dozen rounds a year any day.
Shot Placement is no.1 Bullet quality is no.2 Cartridge is a far distant no.3... cartridges are more alike than different.
And on an elk mountain I'll always take a lighter rifle than a heavier one...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I have run a local long range shooting competition for a couple years. Not a big event, probably had about 45 total participants. We shoot heavy barrel and sporter class. 3 shots at 100, 300 and 500 yards from a bench. Here is my observation. Most guys have no business shooting at animals past 200 yards. The ones that do practice ALOT. The guy who shoots a few hundred rounds a year down rAnge a year with a given rifle ( let's say 6.5 creed) has a lot better chance of putting an Elk down quickly at 300 yards than the guy shooting the 300 win mag who has fired it a couple dozen times. Longe range isn't easy, and caliber selection makes much less difference in ethically killing an animal than does practice. Bullet selection is also important, but again practice trumps all.
MM
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
Anyone here use a 6.5 to hunt elk? Heading to Colorado in Oct and will be carrying my Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creed. I carried it last year and was able to take a my first mule deer. I hand load and shoot the 143 eldx bullet. Have pretty good success with H4350 powder although its not the fastest shooting round ever it is very accurate. Any success stories or experience would be appreciated.
The 140 grain Partition is the 6.5mm bullet that I'd load for anything bigger or tougher than antelope and deer.
I'll be more specific, by all means practice and shoot as much as you can with a rimfire, air gun, varmint rifle on squirrels, prairie dogs, etc. and include your 6.5 or other centerfires as long as you shoot a few dozen rounds of your elk rifle mixed in from hunting positions to be familiar with the gun.
I'm of course poking fun at the sissy younger generation like my father and grandfather did before me....I think we are all right unfortunately. I'm not as tough as my Dad was and the generation before him was pretty tough too.
Yes placement is important but why not keep good placement with decently powerful elk guns. They are often hard to kill and stopping them quickly is preferred, particularly if they aren't far from a boundary. If you only have or can afford the 6.5 by all means use it. But jut because I can hit the brain of an elk with my 22-250 doesn't make it an elk gun, good sized bullets moving fast work better.
I guess my point is inside of 200 and if you really stretch 300 yards( elk are fairly large targets) the creed is fine. And the creed owner is far more likely to have extended time at the range than the win mag owner. Past that distance I would never argue that the win mag is not more capable to break an elk down, the fact is most out there have no business trying to reach out there. Target shooting is one thing, you miss just try again. Animals deserve better. Heck, we had a mild to moderate wind blowing left to right at our last shoot, I didn't compensate like I should have and my point of impact moved enough to take me out of the kill zone at 500. I held a 4-5 " group, but still would have blown a good shot on a deer sized critter. And I was on a bench, with lots of time, not shooting at the bull I've been dreaming of all year while planning a trip. Just passing on my experience and observations.
MM
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
Elk just aren't that hard to kill. Bigger rounds make a more immediate impression, and can put them down a few seconds faster (sometimes), but dead is dead. The smarter way is to use a round you can shoot well, year in and year out, because shot placement trumps sheer horesepower, and shot placement is directly tied to shootability. It's all well and good to talk about a nano-second of recoil a few dozen times a year, but that's not the way to good marksmanship. Yanking a trigger is a good way to create a merry chase. I'll take a guy who is familiar and comfortable with his rifle over the guy that shoots a couple dozen rounds a year any day.
Shot Placement is no.1 Bullet quality is no.2 Cartridge is a far distant no.3... cartridges are more alike than different.
And on an elk mountain I'll always take a lighter rifle than a heavier one...
Brad, I really can't argue with what you say other than the fact that with certain cartridges - and the Creed may very well fall into that category - you're going to have to pass on a shot every now and then that you wouldn't with say, a 30-06 loaded with a stout 180 grain bullet.
Although a 6.5 loaded with a 140 Nosler Partition will probably penetrate as good as most anything, so maybe not.
What do you think?
Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
I'll just point out a number of years ago, one of our forum members ( from Europe IIRC) pointed out that the Swedish Game Dept ( or whatever they call their Fish and Wildlife Dept) were considering making the 6.5 x 55 Obsolete for hunting Moose in their country...
Norway and Finland were watching the results...
They were considering outlawing the most used round on Moose in their country for more than 100 years.
Whoever thought up the testing, the results proved the following...
When doing penetration tests on game, the size of Moose...
the 6.5 x 55 ( with appropriate bullets) was out penetrating and proving to be just as lethal as the 375 H & H Magnum.
So in the end, they scrapped the idea of making the 6.5 x 55 illegal for hunting Moose... much to the delight of the average Moose hunter in Sweden...
so since the 6.5 x 55, the 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor are ALL pretty interchangeable....
I wouldn't feel handicapped carry one at all....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I can only add the experience of one Elk hunt, but I think it's relevant. In 2016 I had a one-off opportunity to hunt Asian Elk, in Kazakhstan, and was warned that distances were very long, due to the landscape. I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and (on the recommendation of a member of this forum) went with 139gr Scenars, loaded to ~2840fps. I had ranging binoculars & a ballistic turret on the scope.
In a week's hunting I had only one chance at a large mature bull, across an open valley, and had about a minute to take the shot as he was about to get up and chase off after a younger Bull. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder at ~590 yards and put him down within 20 yards. To my surprise it also exited.
The other guys in our party had multiple misses with 270 and 7mm rifles, at between 400 & 500 yards (as they had no ranging equipment or ballistic turrets). They eventually got animals at <300 yards.
Rightly or wrongly, my conclusions were: 1. Accuracy/bullet placement is the #1 priority, especially at longer ranges 2. A 6.5mm with ~140gr bullets can penetrate and kill large game animals cleanly 3. I would have struggled to get my Elk if I'd taken a more traditional calibre, like 30-06, 8mm or a 35 Whelan.
I can only add the experience of one Elk hunt, but I think it's relevant. In 2016 I had a one-off opportunity to hunt Asian Elk, in Kazakhstan, and was warned that distances were very long, due to the landscape. I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and (on the recommendation of a member of this forum) went with 139gr Scenars, loaded to ~2840fps. I had ranging binoculars & a ballistic turret on the scope.
In a week's hunting I had only one chance at a large mature bull, across an open valley, and had about a minute to take the shot as he was about to get up and chase off after a younger Bull. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder at ~590 yards and put him down within 20 yards. To my surprise it also exited.
The other guys in our party had multiple misses with 270 and 7mm rifles, at between 400 & 500 yards (as they had no ranging equipment or ballistic turrets). They eventually got animals at <300 yards.
Rightly or wrongly, my conclusions were: 1. Accuracy/bullet placement is the #1 priority, especially at longer ranges 2. A 6.5mm with ~140gr bullets can penetrate and kill large game animals cleanly 3. I would have struggled to get my Elk if I'd taken a more traditional calibre, like 30-06, 8mm or a 35 Whelan.
You're right Pat - I think "scepticism" would be the correct term. But oh boy, those Scenars have done me well as a hunting bullet, in both 123gr and 139gr!
Hunt with what you want, but I'd not hunt elk with anything less than a .30 cal of some sort... but that's just me. And I'm qualified to make that statement. because I have killed elk with .243 and .270 and they were dead in the freezer. But I like a bigger bullet because if you hunt enough sheet will happen. But I'd still go with a bit heavier round/larger caliber. Good luck, and shoot straight whatever your choice ends up being.
I can only add the experience of one Elk hunt, but I think it's relevant. In 2016 I had a one-off opportunity to hunt Asian Elk, in Kazakhstan, and was warned that distances were very long, due to the landscape. I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and (on the recommendation of a member of this forum) went with 139gr Scenars, loaded to ~2840fps. I had ranging binoculars & a ballistic turret on the scope.
In a week's hunting I had only one chance at a large mature bull, across an open valley, and had about a minute to take the shot as he was about to get up and chase off after a younger Bull. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder at ~590 yards and put him down within 20 yards. To my surprise it also exited.
The other guys in our party had multiple misses with 270 and 7mm rifles, at between 400 & 500 yards (as they had no ranging equipment or ballistic turrets). They eventually got animals at <300 yards.
Rightly or wrongly, my conclusions were: 1. Accuracy/bullet placement is the #1 priority, especially at longer ranges 2. A 6.5mm with ~140gr bullets can penetrate and kill large game animals cleanly 3. I would have struggled to get my Elk if I'd taken a more traditional calibre, like 30-06, 8mm or a 35 Whelan.
Thanks for sharing. I may have to try again to get the 139 Scenars shooting really well out of my Creedmoor.
Just a thought on your point #3: a 30-06 loaded with 155 Scenars would be an even better long range option. But your general point is well taken.
I can only add the experience of one Elk hunt, but I think it's relevant. In 2016 I had a one-off opportunity to hunt Asian Elk, in Kazakhstan, and was warned that distances were very long, due to the landscape. I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and (on the recommendation of a member of this forum) went with 139gr Scenars, loaded to ~2840fps. I had ranging binoculars & a ballistic turret on the scope.
In a week's hunting I had only one chance at a large mature bull, across an open valley, and had about a minute to take the shot as he was about to get up and chase off after a younger Bull. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder at ~590 yards and put him down within 20 yards. To my surprise it also exited.
The other guys in our party had multiple misses with 270 and 7mm rifles, at between 400 & 500 yards (as they had no ranging equipment or ballistic turrets). They eventually got animals at <300 yards.
Rightly or wrongly, my conclusions were: 1. Accuracy/bullet placement is the #1 priority, especially at longer ranges 2. A 6.5mm with ~140gr bullets can penetrate and kill large game animals cleanly 3. I would have struggled to get my Elk if I'd taken a more traditional calibre, like 30-06, 8mm or a 35 Whelan.
Why do you think that you would have struggled with an '06?
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
I can only add the experience of one Elk hunt, but I think it's relevant. In 2016 I had a one-off opportunity to hunt Asian Elk, in Kazakhstan, and was warned that distances were very long, due to the landscape. I took my 6.5 Creedmoor and (on the recommendation of a member of this forum) went with 139gr Scenars, loaded to ~2840fps. I had ranging binoculars & a ballistic turret on the scope.
In a week's hunting I had only one chance at a large mature bull, across an open valley, and had about a minute to take the shot as he was about to get up and chase off after a younger Bull. The bullet hit right behind the shoulder at ~590 yards and put him down within 20 yards. To my surprise it also exited.
The other guys in our party had multiple misses with 270 and 7mm rifles, at between 400 & 500 yards (as they had no ranging equipment or ballistic turrets). They eventually got animals at <300 yards.
Rightly or wrongly, my conclusions were: 1. Accuracy/bullet placement is the #1 priority, especially at longer ranges 2. A 6.5mm with ~140gr bullets can penetrate and kill large game animals cleanly 3. I would have struggled to get my Elk if I'd taken a more traditional calibre, like 30-06, 8mm or a 35 Whelan.
Why do you think that you would have struggled with an '06?
After reading your post, my conclusion would be::
At long range, good bullets with a good BC, ranging binoculars, and turrets are more important than headstamps.
I guess my take is guys who can shoot can shoot with whatever rifle they happen to be using. Ballistic coefficients don't mean much until ranges are way over 400 yards. My little elk hunting group practices at a 1000 yard range from hunting positions and the guy shooting a 300 Win mag manages to hit the 600 yard gong without turrets a special reticle or super BC billets or a Kestrel but he does use a rangefinder. Knowing your trajectory from lots of practice matters more than trendy cartridge selection.
The guy shooting a 308 Norma with CDS tops out at 500 yards for reliably hitting targets from field positions. His marksmanship limitations don't seem to be a big problem because he kills one or 2 elk along with a few deer most years.
I've never killed anything as far as 590 yards but I did put 2 180 grain TTSX bullets from a 300 Wby through the same exit hole on a large cow at 550 using a Z800 reticle on a 3-15 Conquest. Yes I practice all the way out to 800 yards every year and have a target at 490 yards at home that gets frequent use with lots of rifles. There really is no substitute for practice and familiarity with your gun......if you are afraid of 30-06 recoil and think your Creed is a magic death ray- use it. If you are a capable rifleman or rifle woman for that matter use a more appropriate tool for the job.
[quoteBallistic coefficients don't mean much until ranges are way over 400 yards.][/quote]
I'm not going to tell anyone which bullet to use for elk, but I strongly disagree with this. A 30-06 shooting a high BC 180 gr bullet hits harder and with more speed at 100 yards than a 300 WM firing a 180 gr RN bullet even though the magnum starts faster. The magnum, even with poor BC bullets, will still shoot flatter out to 300-400 yards, but that isn't the point. That is an extreme example, but the real advantage of better BC is that you can start bullets at moderate velocity and recoil have them impact at faster speeds down range than bullets with poor BC's even though they start faster. A couple of inches in trajectory can be compensated for.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
I have two .260's and I have no doubt they would easily take a elk. However for the type of hunting I do I prefer a little more versatility. I have identical .300 & 7MM mags.
With good bullets either of these will pretty much punch through elk at almost any angle. Case in point....year before last I was fortunate to take 3 elk. Cow, 5x5 and 6x6, all with the 7mm and Nosler bullets.
The cow at 200 yards was pretty much a bang flop. (lungs) 5x5 @ 200 yds. ran downhill about 30 yds.
Third bull, 6x6 was a different story. Jumped him in old growth timber at the point of a ridge. Fortunately for me they ran down of the ridge and then turned left offering me a trotting broadside between the trees about 200 yds. First shot hit him in the hip, and slowed him down. (broke both hips) Three more shots one of which was a miss, hit him in the chest and the diaphragm. Trailed him about 150 yards and found him alive tangled in a blow down. Pretty much dead but gave him a finisher.
Not pretty at all....but dead. I just got him back from my taxidermist in Great Falls.
Would the .260 have worked I don't know, but I have my doubts. I may have not taken the shot or I may have and lost the elk. I guess my self control is not good enough to trust myself when a big bull bust out through the timber and presents a "iffy" shot.
I don't see why it wouldn't work, as stated in this thread bullet placement and bullet construction is more important that case capacity. I started elk hunting in 1975 with a 270 Win. loaded w/ 150 Gr. NPT and it worked a few times with no issues. My uncle used his 257 Roberts from the late 1950's until around 2000 shooting factory ammo for deer and elk and he only needed a follow up shot once in all those years. If I lived in elk country I'd haul my Tikka T3 Hunter 6.5x55 mm up the mountain loaded w/ 140 Gr. NAB or PT (whichever shot best) and make sure my knives are sharp.
"What's adequate for elk?" threads always remind of something Layne Simpson wrote years ago, and may be his best quote: "If you can shoot, the .270 Winchester's an elk cartridge. If you can't, it isn't."
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Hunt with what you want, but I'd not hunt elk with anything less than a .30 cal of some sort...
I guess you and I belong to the ole fart class, big gun for big critters. I may use my 7RM with 175 NPT's, which it shoots well with its 8 twist Brux.
I like my .300 WM Ed Brown Damara, too.
DF
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by redfoxx
Hunt with what you want, but I'd not hunt elk with anything less than a .30 cal of some sort...
I guess you and I belong to the ole fart class, big gun for big critters. I may use my 7RM with 175 NPT's, which it shoots well with its 8 twist Brux.
I like my .300 WM Ed Brown Damara, too.
DF
I've hunted past 10 years or so with a .338 Win Mag with 225g Accubonds... bang-flop most of the time. I like having some extra horsepower to deal with the realities of hunting situations, like non-perfect shot placement, bone, moving animals, etc. IMHO, it does the job with purpose if I do mine. Like you said, big gun for big critters. But that's just me. And yes, I shoot it very accurately.
Last one I saw killed was with a Partition out of a .338 WM.
The guide likes .375's.
Where I hunt LA WT's, a .223 is an effective round. Other than youngsters, adults are expected to shoot something bigger. And, I do. I have an 8 twist .22-250 that loves 80 gr. bullets. It would be a great WT round.
Hunting public land with lots of pressure it is rare that I get multiple opportunities on elk particularly legal bulls. So I never want to pass up a shot because of a tough angle or a little extra distance or proximity to a private property line. I'm ok shooting them in the neck under about 250 yards but prefer heart / lung shots based on room for error like most hunters. Bigger billets moving fast work a little better at anchoring elk with that target area. I don't want another hunter claiming my animal or a pissing match with a local rancher. I want to get to work with my knife on an elk that never got out of my sight.
Sorry, it's just not enough gun for elk. If your asking the question, you already know the answer. Internet experts can flame away, but you all know it's true. I'd use that round for deer sized game, but not for elk. Sure, you can kill them with that round under perfect conditions, but why knowingly take a knife to a gun fight? I love threads like this, they pop up every Fall.
SBHooper, - you asked why I thought I'd have struggled to make a good long shot with a 30-06.
I guess I could talk about recoil and trajectories, and so on, but the bottom line is confidence. Confidence in a gun that I can shoot inside 1/2 MOA in field conditions, and in a bullet with a Sectional Density comparable to a 190gr .308 bullet.
The mid-sized 6.5s (Creedmoor/Swede/6.5-284/SAUM) give you that, which is why they are such versatile hunting calibres.
At long range, , ranging binoculars, and turrets are more important than headstamps.
Not disagreeing with 6.5. But you should know your range, no matter what caliber. So if other guys were having problems at longer ranges, it may have been because they were not good at longer ranges.
Confidence is actually a very good reason to select a rifle for an elk hunt, if you think you can't miss you probably won't. My magic death ray rifle is a 7mm Remington that has shot several groups you could cover with a dime and killed lots of deer and elk. After 4 years of carrying the 300 Weatherby it is finally starting to have that same feeling.
If your 30-06 or similar good elk cartridge kicks too much for you slap a muzzle brake on it and see what that does for you - I'm a big fan and you can manage the noise or thread on a solid cover if you hate it.. But there really isn't a substitute for confidence gained by practice and experience.
SBHooper, - you asked why I thought I'd have struggled to make a good long shot with a 30-06.
I guess I could talk about recoil and trajectories, and so on, but the bottom line is confidence. Confidence in a gun that I can shoot inside 1/2 MOA in field conditions, and in a bullet with a Sectional Density comparable to a 190gr .308 bullet.
The mid-sized 6.5s (Creedmoor/Swede/6.5-284/SAUM) give you that, which is why they are such versatile hunting calibres.
Makes sense.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
Well aside from the legal issues in myhome state.(270 min) the 6.5x55 seems to have served the Scandinavians for years on stag, moose and reindeer so with appropriate bulletsyou s/b fine. My friend uses a 6.5x55 and judging from the penetration and wound channels he has put on deer I don't think an elk would fare to well after a well placed shot. A creedmore is essentially the same .
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
Those 6.5 and 260 users who failed are too embarrassed to admit it on a public forum.... for to think of it few people admit to failure on these forums. I'll share that I switched to Barnes after a Nosler Ballistic Tip failed to penetrate ribs on a good sized bull - shrapnel in the lungs killed him after a 500 yard run through the snow (easy tracking job thankfully) and shortly after that from 7mm to 300 Weatherby for a little more range and stopping power.
If I start hunting in the middle of a private ranch on flat ground I'll be glad to downsize my elk rifle. While they can travel down steep canyons or off public I'll stick to the more powerful loads.
Those 6.5 and 260 users who failed are too embarrassed to admit it on a public forum.... for to think of it few people admit to failure on these forums. I'll share that I switched to Barnes after a Nosler Ballistic Tip failed to penetrate ribs on a good sized bull - shrapnel in the lungs killed him after a 500 yard run through the snow (easy tracking job thankfully) and shortly after that from 7mm to 300 Weatherby for a little more range and stopping power.
If I start hunting in the middle of a private ranch on flat ground I'll be glad to downsize my elk rifle. While they can travel down steep canyons or off public I'll stick to the more powerful loads.
I think most people are hesitant to post that they screwed up or that things didn't go as planned. regardless of the cartridge or bullet or other circumstances involved.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 08/12/17.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
I have taken a lot of Elk at long distance with a 264 Win Mag. I wouldn't hesitate to take one with a 6.5 120 BarnsTTSX. Either in a Creedmore or a 260 Rem.
Texans and Kentuckians talking about elk in any capacity is always funny.
Actually Elk as well as Bison cougar & beaver were native to Kentucky unfortunately they were killed out by the. Long hunters about75 years before there was a Colorado. At that tine I believe the locals favored Bows and flintlocks from 40-58 caliber. Hearing people from Colorado talk like they invented hunting is pretty funny too. Oh and for what its worth it was a guy from KY that drew the map so you could find Missouri Iowa Nebraska Colorado, the Dakotas Montana Oregon. ;^)
I hit pressure signs somewhere around 2900 with H4350...and backed off a fair ways to save brass life. I think I am between 2800 and 2825: somewhere in there. Don't have my rifle notes book with me. Stupid accurate with H4350; else I'd look at RL17.
Since 140 AMAX are now discontinued and availability of the 143 and 147 ELDs are erratic, I decided to pucker my ass hole and use bergers for this season 'till ELDs are more reliably available. Still with H4350.
I started with Vv n-165 when I first built my 6.5-284. Target shooters were using it, so why not.
It topped out at 2,950 with 140 VLDs. I found accuracy nodes along the way; it's a great powder.
RL-17 is a whole different animal. I didn't see hard accuracy nodes, just consistently good groups as the loads increased. Now, n-165 at an accuracy node is slightly more accurate than RL-17, but by just a little. I pushed RL-17 to 3,100 fps. No real pressure signs, but a half MOA gun was now shooting 1 1/2" groups. So, I backed it down to 48 gr. and that's where it's been since.
I know RL-17 doesn't show pressure signs like conventional powders, probably due to its flat pressure curve. It is a very high performance powder and I like it. Don't see me going back.
Texans and Kentuckians talking about elk in any capacity is always funny.
Well aren't you cute! I'm a native Texan and I've been hunting elk in your state for over 30 years, and I've killed my fair share of them. So your welcome for all of us Texans pouring millions of dollars into your economy. Assuming that just because someone doesn't live in elk country that they don't know anything about elk is pure ignorance. Some people. Now, GFYS.
Elk just aren't that hard to kill. Bigger rounds make a more immediate impression, and can put them down a few seconds faster (sometimes), but dead is dead. The smarter way is to use a round you can shoot well, year in and year out, because shot placement trumps sheer horesepower, and shot placement is directly tied to shootability. It's all well and good to talk about a nano-second of recoil a few dozen times a year, but that's not the way to good marksmanship. Yanking a trigger is a good way to create a merry chase. I'll take a guy who is familiar and comfortable with his rifle over the guy that shoots a couple dozen rounds a year any day.
Shot Placement is no.1 Bullet quality is no.2 Cartridge is a far distant no.3... cartridges are more alike than different.
And on an elk mountain I'll always take a lighter rifle than a heavier one...
Take the hunting rifle that you shoot most accurate with in the shooting position that you anticipate that you will be making the shot from. lots of hunters bench shoot their magnums from a lead sled but can't replicate their shots standing. Pick a good bullet. I like Barnes and accubonds. Make certain you shoot within your limits.
Fact is..... if you're shooting a .260 (or Creed, or .243, or .257 Bee, etc) at elks, then you're gonna have to pass on some shots that a dude with a .338 could probably take.
Shot placement is #1..... only if you've got enough gun/bullet for the shot at hand.
Example:
Bull at a hard quartering away angle, moving his cows out of the meadow 125 yards away. "Great shot placement" with a 210 Partition outta the .338 is just in front of the near hip, aimed toward the off shoulder.... this is a shot many of us would take in a heart beat. Bullet ideally plows through the guts, grass bag, liver, diaphragm, both lungs, blows the heart up, and comes to rest in the middle of that opposite side front shoulder.... bull hunches up, takes a couple steps, and face-plants.
My question:
Is it still "Great shot placement" if your shooting a .260 with a 140 Partition at 2750 fps, in the same scenario above? How about a 140 Amax.... or a 139 Scenar?
Can you be under-gunned even with "great shot placement"?
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
I hit pressure signs somewhere around 2900 with H4350...and backed off a fair ways to save brass life. I think I am between 2800 and 2825: somewhere in there. Don't have my rifle notes book with me. Stupid accurate with H4350; else I'd look at RL17.
Since 140 AMAX are now discontinued and availability of the 143 and 147 ELDs are erratic, I decided to pucker my ass hole and use bergers for this season 'till ELDs are more reliably available. Still with H4350.
Don't be skeered to try a Lapua Scenar. In my limited use I've found them very easy to get to shoot. They have a very good rep on game. My use has only been on pronghorn so far, but I have caught a 165gr Partition from a 30-06 in a pronghorn, but not a Scenar yet from a 260.
That being said.... my wife and daughter will be chasing elk this fall (antelope and deer also) with a .260 running 130 Accubonds at 2780. I have full confidence in that load.... more importantly, I have full confidence in either of them to be rather judicious about shot selection, and in their ability to place said shot well.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
Bullets do indeed do weird things at times. I had a 260 grain partition out of my .375 H&H not fully penetrate a broadside wolf. That same load has broke both shoulders of bull elk and kept going before...On the other hand, having too much of a bullet is just as bad. I've seen lung shot coyotes run a few hundred yards after being double lunged with "elk" bullets out of my .340 Weatherby...mind boggling since they rarely go 5 feet with the same hit from a .17 Rem and 25 grain HP.
Kind of off subject from the Creed's performance on elk, but it does illustrate that one can never completely trust a given variable.
If the quartering away angle was really steep, who has opted to bust the hip/pelvis to break them down rather than count on a whole lot of straight line penetration which may well not occur given a correspondingly steep angle of incidence for the bullet's impact?
I hit pressure signs somewhere around 2900 with H4350...and backed off a fair ways to save brass life. I think I am between 2800 and 2825: somewhere in there. Don't have my rifle notes book with me. Stupid accurate with H4350; else I'd look at RL17.
Since 140 AMAX are now discontinued and availability of the 143 and 147 ELDs are erratic, I decided to pucker my ass hole and use bergers for this season 'till ELDs are more reliably available. Still with H4350.
Don't be skeered to try a Lapua Scenar. In my limited use I've found them very easy to get to shoot. They have a very good rep on game. My use has only been on pronghorn so far, but I have caught a 165gr Partition from a 30-06 in a pronghorn, but not a Scenar yet from a 260.
Scenars are good, both the 123 and 139 in the 6.5 CM (.260 and Swede).
They have a thin jacket, but must have a harder alloy. They seem to stay together better than VLDs and are some of the easiest bullets to develop tight shooting loads.
Look at Scenarshooters portfolio of dead critters.
Anyone here use a 6.5 to hunt elk? Heading to Colorado in Oct and will be carrying my Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creed. I carried it last year and was able to take a my first mule deer. I hand load and shoot the 143 eldx bullet. Have pretty good success with H4350 powder although its not the fastest shooting round ever it is very accurate. Any success stories or experience would be appreciated.
Oh boy, that's a stretch!!!! Elk are very very tough animals!!!!
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
100gr 243 Winchester 130,140,150gr 270 Winchester 140gr NPT, 154gr Hornady 7mm-08 Remington factory 7mm Rem Mag (do not remember the weight) Have all worked just fine, so I see no reason why a properly placed 140gr 6.5 bullet would not do the job.
My personal favorite is a 338-06 with 210gr bullets.
I can certainly understand the bigger diameter projectiles for dark timber close range hunting. If I found myself in that situation, I would probably carry my 9.3x64 loaded with 286gr Hornady or NPT. The 300gr SAF could also get some consideration. My 9.3 rifle would get the nod simply because it would carry better than my 375 in the thick stuff.
"What's adequate for elk?" threads always remind of something Layne Simpson wrote years ago, and may be his best quote: "If you can shoot, the .270 Winchester's an elk cartridge. If you can't, it isn't."
Like my Johnson... and thanks for noticing. Still doesn't make a 6.5 Creedmore an appropriate round to hunt elk with. You internet fan boys have been watching too much Outdoor Channel. But keep up the like think... our Country really needs more of that. The guy that disagrees with the in crowd gets demonized. Is this CNN? You'll be talking about the latest and greatest fad round next Fall right before hunting season opens. So predictable... I'll keep killing elk while you are looking for the wounded one that you hit with your "creed". Sounds cool... like Apollo Creed. Maybe thats why it's so popular, because it has such a cool kid name? Damn I hate not being in the in crowd. Now, go look in the mirror, and be disappointed in what you see.
Yeah, in hindsight I came off like a total a-hole. My Apology to huntsman22 and others as such. One of these days I'll learn to keep my fat trap shut and play nice with others... and maybe even keep an open mind every now and then as well. Sorry folks... I'm putting myself in timeout until I learn some manners.
Yeah, in hindsight I came off like a total a-hole. My Apology to huntsman22 and others as such. One of these days I'll learn to keep my fat trap shut and play nice with others... and maybe even keep an open mind every now and then as well. Sorry folks... I'm putting myself in timeout until I learn some manners.
I'll take a guy that can make a mistake, but apologize for it, everyday over a guy that "never makes a mistake", and can never apologize. Well done!
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
If the quartering away angle was really steep, who has opted to bust the hip/pelvis to break them down rather than count on a whole lot of straight line penetration which may well not occur given a correspondingly steep angle of incidence for the bullet's impact?
That is exactly what I would, and have done. Between hunting, depredation, and ballistic testing- bullets sometimes do odd things. If I can't see the chest cavity, and I am going to shoot anyways, then center of the tailbone/hip is the first shot. Yes, it requires a follow up shot and the potential is there for the animal to crawl on the front legs, however in a few dozen animals shot that way I have never seen one not go down and allow an immeadiate follow up.
Like my Johnson... and thanks for noticing. Still doesn't make a 6.5 Creedmore an appropriate round to hunt elk with. You internet fan boys have been watching too much Outdoor Channel. But keep up the like think... our Country really needs more of that. The guy that disagrees with the in crowd gets demonized. Is this CNN? You'll be talking about the latest and greatest fad round next Fall right before hunting season opens. So predictable... I'll keep killing elk while you are looking for the wounded one that you hit with your "creed". Sounds cool... like Apollo Creed. Maybe thats why it's so popular, because it has such a cool kid name? Damn I hate not being in the in crowd. Now, go look in the mirror, and be disappointed in what you see.
Lots of great input but also a lot of assumptions that I would be hunting long range. lol Don't believe I once mentioned long range in my question.
In that case, you are using the wrong bullet. That ELD is not your ideal non-long-range elk bullet. But the cartridge is fine. Try an Accubond, Partition, or TTSX.
140grn accubond at 2848fps muzzle, impact at 100yds into milk jugs filled with water, 18+ inches penetration into 4th milk jug which caught it....ended at 85grn..........should do just fine!
What 26 cal bullet would you recommend for elk if your rifle has a 1:9" twist?
I'm not an elk hunter unfortunately but I'm surprised no one uses a Barnes X style bullet (like a 120g TTSX or similar). What is the downside of using an X bullet? I can stabilize the 120g X bullet with a 1:9" twist. What other options are there? I can stabilize most 130g bulllets.
What 26 cal bullet would you recommend for elk if your rifle has a 1:9" twist?
I'm not an elk hunter unfortunately but I'm surprised no one uses a Barnes X style bullet (like a 120g TTSX or similar). What is the downside of using an X bullet? I can stabilize the 120g X bullet with a 1:9" twist. What other options are there? I can stabilize most 130g bulllets.
I'd try a Speer 140-grain Hot Cor or a Hornady SP Interlock (also 140) if you're talking about shooting from a cartridge like the Creedmoor, 260, Swede, etc. Those cartridges don't push 140s fast enough to worry about whether or not the bullet will hold together. Those bullets will expand to greater frontal area than a solid or mono-metal bullet at Creedmoor speeds. They're both flat-base spitzers, too, so a 9-twist is probably enough. I didn't check JBM's stability calculator to verify; run it through there if you like.
If I get the chance to shoot one in late October I will be using a 260 with 140vld. I don't feel under gunned or under bullet with this setup. Of course I have limited myself to 400 yards as a personal limit. My rifle is a 1-8 twist though.
You fellas can hunt with whatever lets you sleep at night, but in my opinion there is no better elk load than a Barnes TTSX launched from a fast 7mm or .300 magnum. I don't use .257's or 6.5s for elk and never will. I'm a huge fan of the .257 Roberts and .250-3000 Savage, just not for elk sized beasts. One of two possibilities is likely; cripple and lose an animal and hate yourself for a long while or get lucky and put one in the dirt and join those who pride themselves on using the smallest caliber possible to kill the largest critters. Happy Trails
......................................In agreement with WAM on this subject. Although I have never owned a 6.5 Creed and if I did would not use it for elk, the 6.5 CM nevertheless will kill elk. But the Creed would not be amongst my top choices. For my ten elk, I used a 300 Win on nine and a 300 WSM on one.
On the next elk trip, my newly ordered 28 Nosler will get the call.
[quote=WAM]......................................In agreement with WAM on this subject. Although I have never owned a 6.5 Creed and if I did would not use it for elk, the 6.5 CM nevertheless will kill elk. But the Creed would not be amongst my top choices. For my ten elk, I used a 300 Win on nine and a 300 WSM on one.
On the next elk trip, my newly ordered 28 Nosler will get the call.
[quote=WAM]......................................In agreement with WAM on this subject. Although I have never owned a 6.5 Creed and if I did would not use it for elk, the 6.5 CM nevertheless will kill elk. But the Creed would not be amongst my top choices. For my ten elk, I used a 300 Win on nine and a 300 WSM on one.
On the next elk trip, my newly ordered 28 Nosler will get the call.
I don't believe that.
.....................Believe it or don't? I really do not care Bosco1........................
You don't happen to have a picture of any of those ten elk you can post do you? How many of the elk stayed dead after they died?
.................Well... Well.... Well....If it isn't my 'ol buddy 406 SBC..........Yep! I happen to have plenty of pics taken over many years by 35mm cameras of those ten elk, some deer and a number of hogs. All in several nicely leather bound photo albums.
Now I suppose I could take all or some of those pics and have them digitally converted enabling me to post them in such a way that would please you in order for you to finally like me. Interestingly, you ask me to post pics in your first question. But yet your second question above truly reveals your boyish and sarcastic im-maturity.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
Therefore I should appease and capitulate to what you and they want? Don't think so.
Tell ya what SBC. If you ever happen to get down here to So Cal you PM me there 'ol buddy. Then you shall see the pics you seek. And then we shall also see if there be any further digs and extra sarcastic comments that come forth from your mouth ( just like on this forum) when face to face with me.
You don't happen to have a picture of any of those ten elk you can post do you? How many of the elk stayed dead after they died?
.................Well... Well.... Well....If it isn't my 'ol buddy 406 SBC..........Yep! I happen to have plenty of pics taken over many years by 35mm cameras of those ten elk, some deer and a number of hogs. All in several nicely leather bound photo albums.
Now I suppose I could take all or some of those pics and have them digitally converted enabling me to post them in such a way that would please you in order for you to finally like me. Interestingly, you ask me to post pics in your first question. But yet your second question above truly reveals your boyish and sarcastic im-maturity.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
Therefore I should appease and capitulate to what you and they want? Don't think so.
Tell ya what SBC. If you ever happen to get down here to So Cal you PM me there 'ol buddy. Then you shall see the pics you seek. And then we shall also see if there be any further digs and extra sarcastic comments that come forth from your mouth ( just like on this forum) when face to face with me.
Watch out 406 SBC, he's in phenomenal shape and has multiple black belts in internet BS. Face to face he'll scare you so bad you'll pee yourself! At least that so how it'll go in his head.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
You literally started a thread claiming to be a relative and saying that you had died.
Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
You don't happen to have a picture of any of those ten elk you can post do you? How many of the elk stayed dead after they died?
.................Well... Well.... Well....If it isn't my 'ol buddy 406 SBC..........Yep! I happen to have plenty of pics taken over many years by 35mm cameras of those ten elk, some deer and a number of hogs. All in several nicely leather bound photo albums.
Now I suppose I could take all or some of those pics and have them digitally converted enabling me to post them in such a way that would please you in order for you to finally like me. Interestingly, you ask me to post pics in your first question. But yet your second question above truly reveals your boyish and sarcastic im-maturity.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
Therefore I should appease and capitulate to what you and they want? Don't think so.
Tell ya what SBC. If you ever happen to get down here to So Cal you PM me there 'ol buddy. Then you shall see the pics you seek. And then we shall also see if there be any further digs and extra sarcastic comments that come forth from your mouth ( just like on this forum) when face to face with me.
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
You literally started a thread claiming to be a relative and saying that you had died.
..................................Well u are wrong there bellydeep. But it doesn't matter. You, SBC, the Yetti and a few other clowns on here really could care less about any truth.
And Mr. Yetti.....The same invite made to SBC applies to you too. Black belts in internet BS? LOL......... Well please come on down from whatever cave you happen to be residing in as a yetti within Colorado and pay me a visit!!!!.............
You don't happen to have a picture of any of those ten elk you can post do you? How many of the elk stayed dead after they died?
.................Well... Well.... Well....If it isn't my 'ol buddy 406 SBC..........Yep! I happen to have plenty of pics taken over many years by 35mm cameras of those ten elk, some deer and a number of hogs. All in several nicely leather bound photo albums.
Now I suppose I could take all or some of those pics and have them digitally converted enabling me to post them in such a way that would please you in order for you to finally like me. Interestingly, you ask me to post pics in your first question. But yet your second question above truly reveals your boyish and sarcastic im-maturity.
Obviously, you and a few others on here continue to think and will always think, that beyond any doubt I faked my own death on this forum some six or seven years ago. Nothing I can do to convince you or they otherwise. Hence, the reason why the sarcasm in your above second question and in that regard as well, that subject will always be a source of good entertainment for you and a few others as you and they follow me around on this forum.
Therefore I should appease and capitulate to what you and they want? Don't think so.
Tell ya what SBC. If you ever happen to get down here to So Cal you PM me there 'ol buddy. Then you shall see the pics you seek. And then we shall also see if there be any further digs and extra sarcastic comments that come forth from your mouth ( just like on this forum) when face to face with me.
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
That you believe your situation is fine is actually your sad situation.
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
That you believe your situation is fine is actually your sad situation.
Originally Posted by 406_SBC
Originally Posted by bigsqueeze
Originally Posted by 406_SBC
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
That you believe your situation is fine is actually your sad situation.
I left California 20 years ago with no intent of returning (except for 30+ days at NTC, no choice on that one). No "offer" from an internet tough guy is gonna get me back in that cesspool.....
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
That you believe your situation is fine is actually your sad situation.
Originally Posted by 406_SBC
Originally Posted by bigsqueeze
Originally Posted by 406_SBC
I'll take that to mean, no you don't have pictures that you can post. You're in a very sad situation. May God have mercy upon you.
.......................Nice try SBC...Have plenty of pics. And my situation is fine. You looked a little thinner in one of your posts I happen to run across recently. Lose about 70 lbs or so?...If so keep up the good work.
That you believe your situation is fine is actually your sad situation.
.....................LOL>>>LOL>>>LOL............
Here you are making my point by laughing at the cancer in your life when treatment is readily available. As I said, may God have mercy upon you.
What 26 cal bullet would you recommend for elk if your rifle has a 1:9" twist?
I'm not an elk hunter unfortunately but I'm surprised no one uses a Barnes X style bullet (like a 120g TTSX or similar). What is the downside of using an X bullet? I can stabilize the 120g X bullet with a 1:9" twist. What other options are there? I can stabilize most 130g bulllets.
I'd try a Speer 140-grain Hot Cor or a Hornady SP Interlock (also 140) if you're talking about shooting from a cartridge like the Creedmoor, 260, Swede, etc. Those cartridges don't push 140s fast enough to worry about whether or not the bullet will hold together. Those bullets will expand to greater frontal area than a solid or mono-metal bullet at Creedmoor speeds. They're both flat-base spitzers, too, so a 9-twist is probably enough. I didn't check JBM's stability calculator to verify; run it through there if you like.
Curious as to how many elk have been crippled by hunters who were terrified while pulling the trigger on their 100 million magnums. Shoot what you are comfortable shooting and stay within your limits. Seems kinda simple.
Broncos are officially the worst team in the nation this year.
What 26 cal bullet would you recommend for elk if your rifle has a 1:9" twist?
I'm not an elk hunter unfortunately but I'm surprised no one uses a Barnes X style bullet (like a 120g TTSX or similar). What is the downside of using an X bullet? I can stabilize the 120g X bullet with a 1:9" twist. What other options are there? I can stabilize most 130g bulllets.
I'd try a Speer 140-grain Hot Cor or a Hornady SP Interlock (also 140) if you're talking about shooting from a cartridge like the Creedmoor, 260, Swede, etc. Those cartridges don't push 140s fast enough to worry about whether or not the bullet will hold together. Those bullets will expand to greater frontal area than a solid or mono-metal bullet at Creedmoor speeds. They're both flat-base spitzers, too, so a 9-twist is probably enough. I didn't check JBM's stability calculator to verify; run it through there if you like.
Add the 140 Nosler Partition.
Especially the Partition.
Given my observation from finding unrecovered dead elk (shot in the front half) on our lands and adjacent public lands, Hot Cors and Interlocks would be well down my list of good elk bullets...........
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Given my observation from finding unrecovered dead elk (shot in the front half) on our lands and adjacent public lands, Hot Cors and Interlocks would be well down my list of good elk bullets...........
From moderate-speed 26-cals in particular (like we're talking about here), or just in general? A couple of friends and I have found it difficult to recover 140-grain 26-cal bullets from big game, but our experience base is doubtless lower than some here.
I've used the 6.5 x 55 and the 6.5 x 284 to take about a dozen elk and witnessed maybe another half dozen taken with the 6.5 x 55. I have used the 130 vld, 130 accubond, 140 bt, 123 scenar, and 120 ttsx. Had great results with the 6.5 on elk. The 6.5s are more than adequate for the types and distances of shots I opt to take and kill very cleanly, at least compared to the other dozen chambering I've use to harvest elk. Headstamps don't limit the types of shots I take but ethics often do. The only 6.5 I caught was a 130 accubond in a wolf taken at about 30 yards.
I've used the 6.5 x 55 and the 6.5 x 284 to take about a dozen elk and witnessed maybe another half dozen taken with the 6.5 x 55. I have used the 130 vld, 130 accubond, 140 bt, 123 scenar, and 120 ttsx. Had great results with the 6.5 on elk. The 6.5s are more than adequate for the types and distances of shots I opt to take and kill very cleanly, at least compared to the other dozen chambering I've use to harvest elk. Headstamps don't limit the types of shots I take but ethics often do. The only 6.5 I caught was a 130 accubond in a wolf taken at about 30 yards.
This doesn't surprise me much. Various tests with big bore cast bullets have shown that faster often results in less penetration than slower. I've seen this in my own tests on water jugs where really slow bullets out-penetrate faster ones. Some examples from my testing:
Granted, there are no apples-to-apples comparisons there. Nevertheless the slower 1167fps 350g hardcast out-penetrated both the 1812fps 460g hardcast and the non-expanding 1554fps 500g Speer AGS, 12 jugs to 9.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 10/02/17.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
There is a rather detailed study on penetration out there and it clearly showed that high speed results in less penetration. It was somewhere around 1700-1900 FPS that resulted in the greatest penetration. Faster was less and slower was less. I don't recall the exact details...
I've used the 6.5 x 55 and the 6.5 x 284 to take about a dozen elk and witnessed maybe another half dozen taken with the 6.5 x 55. I have used the 130 vld, 130 accubond, 140 bt, 123 scenar, and 120 ttsx. Had great results with the 6.5 on elk. The 6.5s are more than adequate for the types and distances of shots I opt to take and kill very cleanly, at least compared to the other dozen chambering I've use to harvest elk. Headstamps don't limit the types of shots I take but ethics often do. The only 6.5 I caught was a 130 accubond in a wolf taken at about 30 yards.
This doesn't surprise me much. Various tests with big bore cast bullets have shown that faster often results in less penetration than slower. I've seen this in my own tests on water jugs where really slow bullets out-penetrate faster ones. Some examples from my testing:
Granted, there are no apples-to-apples comparisons there. Nevertheless the slower 1167fps 350g hardcast out-penetrated both the 1812fps 460g hardcast and the non-expanding 1554fps 500g Speer AGS, 12 jugs to 9.
Bullets that hold together under high impact velocities, like the MRX in your list, tend to defy that trend, IME. Interesting that the .308" 180gr MRX penetrated right up there with the heavy, .458" bullets that you tested.
Yeah, "premium" bullets tend to penetrate deeper when driven faster.
The occasional exceptions are those that open much wider at higher impact velocities. Some of the bonded-core bullets with no mechanism in the jacket to limit expansion will open so widely penetration is less. I have seen this a number of times, and for the same reason cup-and-core bullets often penetrate less at higher velocities.
But bullets like the TSX, E-Tip, GMX, Partition, North Fork, Trophy Bonded, etc., where expansion is stopped at a certain point in the shank tend to penetrate deeper when driven faster.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Bullets that hold together under high impact velocities, like the MRX in your list, tend to defy that trend, IME. Interesting that the .308" 180gr MRX penetrated right up there with the heavy, .458" bullets that you tested.
I think that is because they have less frontal area than bullets that expand into a circle (more or less).
Have to admit I'm very happy with MRX and TTSX. Plan to use a 180g LRX this year in my .300WM. Have yet to catch an X in an animal.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 10/02/17.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
From moderate-speed 26-cals in particular (like we're talking about here), or just in general? A couple of friends and I have found it difficult to recover 140-grain 26-cal bullets from big game, but our experience base is doubtless lower than some here.
You're correct in pointing out that moderate speeds can help. But.......most elk I've killed have been at shortish range--and many of those at less than 50 yds. So, what's the impact velocity of a 140gr C&C bullet from a 260 at 50 yds?
When I referred to the unrecovered elk I couldn't find an exit. On a couple elk--that were fresh enough--I have done a "bullet necropsy", the bullet stopped in the first lung, allowing it to run far enough in dry conditions the hunter obviously didn't find it. Or he thought he missed......
Moderate expansion, deep penetration, that's the secret. Caliber, BC, velocity, and to some extent even weight don't mean much. If we polled most of the elk loonies, who handload, and have spent a large part of their life in the Rocky Mountains and hunt elk, the bullets that penetrate seem to be the most popular.
There's a number of good bullets out there, I choose the NPt because it seems to be the most consistent bullet that penetrates well across the widest range of velocities.
On Tuesday I shot a 250lb bear almost straight on at 32 paces. Hit on the point of the shoulder (and the exploding bone just destroyed that shoulder). The NPt exited right in front of the off side hind quarter.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Indeed! My Wife just finished her Arkansas Elk hunt. We had spotted a couple of good Bulls the last weekend of Sept and the morning temps "dipped haw" into the mid fifties at daylight but when the 5 day hunt started Oct 2nd we had a full Moon and 90 degree temps, not too good a combo for daylight movement, bugling and all activity stopped but you could hear them from camp at 1:00-4:00 AM all you wanted plus the woods was coated with big whiteoak acorns. We had to spot and stalk and forget about food plots where others connect in seasons with logical weather. She connected on a 400# Spike with 20 minutes remaining on the last day. The load for her 22" RAP was a 140 gr. Partition at 2825 fps with RL26. I tried H4350 first but did not get good velocity. She centerpunched the front shoulder and did extensive damage through facing ribs and into the chest cavity, and a small exit (back half of bullet no doubt) out and into the hillside. She was good to go to at least 300 yds. (her self decided limit) I believe if at 300 yds instead of 60 and a 600# Bull instead of 400# the outcome would have been the same other than he may have ran 75 yds. instead of 5 yds. She killed a Bull 8 years ago with her 6.5 Swede, same bullet with a mv of 2600, again through the shoulders, this time at 140 yds and the same result. I was trying to decide between a 120 TTSX and a 140 Part, the TTSXjust to do it with a different bullet and I believe it would but I will use those in my 264 Lipsey #1.
I don't see any way to improve this performance for such a round or quite a few others.
Thanks
You will not make peace with the Blue Coats, you are free to go
Like my Johnson... and thanks for noticing. Still doesn't make a 6.5 Creedmore an appropriate round to hunt elk with. You internet fan boys have been watching too much Outdoor Channel. But keep up the like think... our Country really needs more of that. The guy that disagrees with the in crowd gets demonized. Is this CNN? You'll be talking about the latest and greatest fad round next Fall right before hunting season opens. So predictable... I'll keep killing elk while you are looking for the wounded one that you hit with your "creed". Sounds cool... like Apollo Creed. Maybe thats why it's so popular, because it has such a cool kid name? Damn I hate not being in the in crowd. Now, go look in the mirror, and be disappointed in what you see.
I just agree ! its nothing more than a fad name just give me old killer 300 win mag for elk .
The result had nothing to do with a fad, I don't think the Elk was that well informed. And like I said her other Elk fell to the Swede going a little slower, so headstamp was not known to either Elk. I was just relating what happened and was pretty clear to me what to expect. Yes, I use a 300 myself and I think it helps at longer range but alas I was sharing experience related to the thread.
You will not make peace with the Blue Coats, you are free to go
Everybody knows you can't kill a deer with a .243 and you can't kill an elk with a 6.5 anything. These reports of confirmed clean kills must be fake news! 😄
Were you back up in some familiar ground from your younger days?
It seems familiar to me too.
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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