Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives Newer diesel which one?

Looking for a newer crew cab diesel pickup, haven't purchased a pickup since 2001 when I bought my 99 F250SD regular cab manual transmission for $15,000 with 50,000 miles. My old truck has been so bulletproof I haven't kept up on diesel trucks. I'm keeping my old SD but my daughter 5'10" at 14 we don't fit three very well anymore in the cab, so we don't get much use out of our travel trailer anymore since it's the only vehicle I have that can pull it. $30,000 will probably be my max budget, and hope to buy in the next 6 months.

Has anyone tried the Dodge Ecodiesel? The 27 MPG highway is kind of what's turning my head and it'll pull my 6000 lb 32' travel trailer no problem. I've read some of the problems with it, plus it's small enough my wife won't be afraid to drive it. When I look at 3/4-1 ton pickups it seems that Ford gives you more options for my money on the used market around here. What are the major years I should avoid in Ford, Dodge, and Chevy?

Thanks.

My 2017 ram Cummins 3500 is one hell of a nice truck and pulls like nothing is back there. Biggest thing that drew me to a 3500 desiel was the fact of how much it will still be worth in 10 years and 250k+ miles.

I've got Duramax diesels. The only one to watch out for was the 2001-2004 LB7 engine code Duramax. They have injector issues to the tune of $5k+ every 75k-100k miles. The 06 and 07 LBZ engine code Duramaxes were the best of the pre-DPF emission models. I bought an LBZ new and still drive it almost daily. Mine's tuned, has 1 Ton DRW double spring packs and frame perches, solid front and rear sway bars, etc... It's set up to work— to tow heavy and haul ass. The LMM and LML engines are also very reliable. In 2017 they've upgraded to the L5P. It's my understanding that the L5P is being produced by GM rather than Isuzu. I've also got a 2016 LML. The interiors on the new GM trucks is fantastic. There's tons of integrated storage. The GM diesel equipped trucks ride better than their Dodge and Ford counterparts. I've previously had a Cummins equipped Dodge. I haven't owned any Powerstroke equipped Fords, but have been around plent. They're very popular. I find the Fords sit unnecessarily high and I don't want to climb in and out of one all day. It's also been my experience that the Fords ride like buck boards. If I was looking for a 450 or 550 class truck, Ford would likely get the nod, but at that point there's better value in a 33K GVW single screw with air brakes. That's another topic.

I haven't kept up with all the Powerstroke iterations. The 7.3L is legendary. At least one later version, IIRC the 6.0L, had issues with head studs stretching. A problem for which there are well known and proven fixes. Someone more familiar should speak to the Fords. I loved the Cummins, but the Dodge wrapped around it was a POS. In under 2 years and 39k miles, the front end was shot.

Good luck in your quest. Anymore, they all make a pretty good truck.

I pull a tractor rarely. But drive around 40-50k a year. Curious about 1500s that ford and dodge have or are coming out with, I am sure GMC soon to follow. Though even if it adds years to engine, the rest of the truck still has XXX miles on it.

Really odd that some have issues with front ends on the Rams, and others have great luck with them. I'm one of the latter group. 248k on my '03 before I replaced ball joints and center link. Sold it with about 300k on it, and as far as I know, it's still tight with about 350k on it. Current one is a 2014, 85k miles and still tight, only suspension replacements have been shocks. Bit the bullet and went with King shocks and couldn't be happier.

I never got the "death rattle" on my 06 2500 Cummins, but the front end had loosened up and needed a rebuild at 120k. I'd think the quality or lack thereof of one's roads would play into how long the front end lasts.

All in all the Ram/Cummins was solid and treated me well for 10 years and 150k on the odo. Hopefully next spring I can swing a 2017 or 2018 to replace it.

Avoid the ford 6.0 diesels like the plague... ford 6.4 diesel was a decent motor but that motor was in production couple yrs.

This except I'd avoid the 6.4 as well.

For $30,000, I'd be looking for a Dodge or Chevy/GMC.

Alan, my Dodge was a 2004 Ram 2500 SLT, 4x4, Cummins, quad cab, standard bed, Laramie H pkg. I wouldn't have believed it myself.

$30,000 is my max budget and it better be one hell of a nice truck for me to spend that much, I'm hoping to find one under budget like most people. Around here in Southeast Colorado (500 mile radius search) I find I get a lot more truck with Ford for the money, such as newer, fewer miles, 6.7L, and more options. Especially when it comes to Chevy/GMC, these trucks usually are over budget with over 100K miles on them even as old as 2008 models. Dodge I can get into 10-12 models and just under 100K miles. I've found some Fords as new as 2013 around 85K miles in my budget. I usually find the best deals in OK and TX, CO wants to much money IMO. I can get as new as a 2016 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel in my budget with less than 50K miles.

It just boggles my mind how a 5-7 y/o truck with 100k on the odo is 2/3-3/4 the price of a new one. My truck was 10 years old with 150k on it when it got totaled out and insurance appraised it at 56% of what I paid for it.

A car of similar mileage and age is going to be 1/3-1/4 new. My wife's latest car was 2 years old with 11k on the odo, got it for slighly under 2/3 of new cost. Her previous car was ~7 y/o with 62k on the odo and less 1/4 the price of new.

Unless you can find a super clean low mileage truck at a great price, IMHO used trucks just don't pencil out.

My '07 2500 Cummins is basically worth what I paid for it 8 years ago and I've got a handful of people that would buy it in a heart beat. I put less than 5 thousand annually on it and it basically doesn't see any winter roads so it looks like new.

F'ing crazy what a new ones are priced at

I want to know how a new truck pencils out? You have to be able to write it off and make a living with it to afford a new truck. Had a buddy drop over $60K on a 2017 Powerstroke, I can't get creative enough to pencil that one out. Hell even after a substancial down payment he pays more a month on that pickup than my mortgage is.

I don't buy vehicles often, and haven't had vehicle a payment since 2003. I figure any decent diesel truck should last 300K miles if properly maintained, my 1990 Chevy 1500 gasser went 318K before the odometer quit and my Dad drove it for six years after I gave it to him when I bought my Powerstroke. So buying a pickup with 100K on the odometer these days is a lot different than buying a high mileage pickup back 30-40 years ago.

Cummins!

Go to diesel forums and read first hand info from different owners.

You should be celebrating your mortgage!

For what it's worth, I bought my 2016 Ram 3500 SRW, Crew Cab, Tradesman 6.7l cummins new for $38k out the door last October. Came with the snow chief package, aux switch bank, higher amp alternator, etc. Great deals can be found in October/November.

That was a steal!

Tradesman Rams run ~$40k from Dave Smith motors for 4X4 crew cab with the Cummins. Sure the upgrade packages are nice, but not $10-20k nice. And I can assure you a $60k truck is never going to ride like a $60k Mercedes.

Tradesman Rams run ~$40k from Dave Smith motors for 4X4 crew cab with the Cummins. Sure the upgrade packages are nice, but not $10-20k nice. And I can assure you a $60k truck is never going to ride like a $60k Mercedes.

The way a new truck pencils out is you buy a base model for $40k, drive it for five years with no need for repairs, and you sell it for $30k and repeat. Unless you have the mad skills to always find a clean used truck, drive it for a couple of years and sell it for what you have in it and replace with a similar vehicle, there is no way a used truck is going to pencil out as a better deal than a new truck depreciating $2k/yr for the first five years. There is also the time value of money trying to find the perfect used truck, and lost time dealing with repairs. I have never owned a vehicle that didn't need a several thousand dollar influx of cash somewhere between 100-200k on the odo.

I'd love to have a mortgage less than a car payment.

Yeah, but I farm. A new truck is new for about a week before it has it's first serious scratch. Three months later, the tailgate gets creased because a load shifts. A month after that the stupid front spoiler gets ripped off in a rut. After that, I quit babying it...

Ain't nobody wanting to buy MY 3 year old "near new" truck at "near new" prices.....

I don't ranch full time but my family does and I do run about 25 head of my own cattle. They run with my Dad's herd, all it takes is one cow to back into a fender or door to put a nice crease in it. I put a pencil to my used 99 Super Duty I purchased it for $15K 16 years ago, put 200K miles on the odometer and almost $10K in repairs both major and minor. That's 5 cents a mile to repair, or about $1,670 a year to own. I didn't include oil changes, license fees, or insurance in that costs, but for me that pencils better than any new pickup does.

I tried to find a $40K 2017 Tradesman diesel best I could do was $48,000 for a cab and chassis and $51,000 for a standard bed, before negotiations and incentives. The only 13 Tradesman trucks I found that was even close to $10K less than a new one all had less than 50K on the odometer. Any model year 13 Tradesman trucks 75K plus on the odometer were about half of a 17 base model Tradesman.

Another of my frustrations is the demise of manual trannies. I'll run my six-speed, 04 crew cab 350 until it literally dies. Had to put about $1,200 into the front end here at about 155 k. I need it mostly to get back and forth to the office.

Should try Dennis Dillon in Caldwell Idaho - they are known across the country for having best pricing on Ram Trucks.
I picked up my ram in December of 2016. 3500 CC SB 4X4 6.7, Has uconnect 5.0, auto 4x4, cold weather package, tow mirrows, ect. - Basically everything you can do to a tradesman without jumping to a SLT. I purchased for $41,200 before tax.

Since purchasing, I added a bed liner, running boards, and better tires and have a truck that should last me years and years to come. Oh BTW, that 6.7 cummins sure pulls the 7k travel trailer nice...lol

I'll bet it does!

I guess it depends on area of the country. In 2015, I traded in my 2013 Ford F250 6.7L Powerstroke King Ranch. It had every option except for the bed side steps. Paid $68K for it. The dealer gave me 40K. It had 18,000 miles on it, and not a mark on it. A guy drove from OK to buy it. I bet he's happy.

Call Dave Smith Motors for the out the door price. Their sticker price on their website is not the out the door price and you don't have to dicker to knock it down. Just pick the truck you're interested in, call them with the model number and they'll give you a price.

I have a 2017 Ram diesel and I really like the truck. The mirrors are to wide and there is a chrome trim ring around the center console that will reflect the sun right in my eyes. If that is what I am bitching about, the truck is really solid. I get good mileage (for the size), loads of power and it is really easy to drive. I would recommend one to anyone who asks.

Dennis Dillon gave me such a good deal on my truck, I flew to Idaho from Ohio and drove back. With flight, fuel and food, I saved 5k over local offers. Ask for Monique. She was excellent.

How do you define a 'newer' truck? If you want brand new, seems like the guys above have it covered.
Honestly, if you're only towing ~6K and plan on keeping the truck (which makes resale less of an issue) then buy one of the newer HDs with a gas engine and call it a day. I'm dead serious.
I've either owned, operated extensively through work, or been in charge of nearly all of the makes/models of diesel trucks. I don't claim to be an expert but 'know' a fair amount.
Gone are the days of simple diesel trucks that run ~300K miles without much expense. ALL of them have major electrical and emissions controls equipment that can get VERY expensive when the warranty runs out.
If you're capable and interested in doing your own work you can save a ton of money. If not, or if you don't have a solid bank account, my advice is to skip the diesel and go gas.
Nearly every model has issues and fixes. The key is to either have access to a shop that specializes in that engine, or to do your own research and invest in the tools necessary. Dealers are seldom the shop that specializes in the 'older' versions.
Research to death the make/model/year you're interested in so you know what to look for/expect. For example, the '03 and early '04 Fords with the 6.0 Powerstroke had issues. The later model also did, but to a lesser degree. The '05-'07 had a new front suspension and a host of other upgrades. All of them can get expensive very quickly if you don't know what you're looking at when you buy. It's not difficult to spend major cash on a bad 6.0 Powerstroke, or waaaaay more on a bad 6.4 Powerstoke, or $4K+ on a transmission for a Dodge + $1,500 on the front end (that's if it isn't one of the Cummins that has washed out the #6 cylinder...), or as mentioned above, expensive injectors for a Duramax (I also had to do a wiring harness and flywheel on the one I had). The 6.4 PSD and 6.7 PSD require the cab to be lifted to do any major (and some minor) work. The Ford 6.7 is shaping up to be a reliable engine, though the 2011s had some issues to watch out for.
Another thing to keep in mind is how the engine has been modified and/or tuned. Some folks like to tune the crap out of their diesels, but don't do the supporting upgrades. This can result in a lot of nasty, expensive surprises. Again, decide what you want and research it until you'r bleary-eyed and exhausted, then go shopping. I don't know that I'd buy any 'newer' diesel that has an OBDII port without (at a minimum) hooking it up to a monitor and watching the vitals relevant to that particular engine's health. Even better would be to take the prospective truck to a shop that specializes in that make/engine for a thorough inspection.
Having fun yet? Consider my previous comment about buying a gas rig.
Now consider your budget and threshold for financial pain, then go forth and shop. In my opinion, if you buy a diesel in the 2003+ range, have a slush fund account for upgrades and repairs. You may not need it, but...

I'll give you a quick example as I went through this about a year and half ago. After paying big bucks for a brand new 2013 Ram 3500 Cummins I was a happy camper. Until the problems started. A little over a year after purchase RAM bought it back from me, and I took delivery of a 2014. It seemed like a great truck, but I was disenchanted and decided to unload the payment while I could. Ultimately I needed another diesel but was absolutely set on paying cash. After ridiculous amounts of research, online shopping, and looking at dozens of trucks, I learned that people believe the mid 2000s models of Cummins and Duramax variants are made of gold, and that clean ones are tough to find. Many of the same year Powerstrokes were hammered or had been owned/tuned by young guys who were ignorant about them. I ultimately decided that I wanted a 2006 or 2007 F350 with the (gasp!) 6.0 Powerstroke. Partly because I could get a 6-speed manual. Also because I'm a fan of Ford's drivetrain. Also because I could get one for significantly less than a Cummins or Duramax. All markets are different, but I found a 2007 F350 Crew Cab 4X4 diesel with a 6-speed, unmolested but used, with 86K miles for about $8K less than a comparable Dodge of GM with 150K miles. I do my own work and can get a lot done for that $8K (assuming the Dodge or GM whouldn't have required anything, which is a pipe dream). Well over a year and about 11K miles later, and I don't think I've put a dime into it because I 'had' to. Sure, I've done upgrades and done preventative improvements. I suppose it could blow up tomorrow, just like any of them, but I monitor it and take care of it. It's the resident 'tow pig' and is nearly always hooked up to something, and I've been well pleased with it so far.

In short, if you don't need a diesel, don't buy one. If you can't buy one under warranty, have a decent sized savings account to take care of things. Do major homework and don't get in a hurry to buy. Have ANY of them inspected by a reputable shop. Understand the emissions laws in your area, as some newer diesels 'need' to be deleted to realize their true reliability/power/economy.

By newer I'd like to get a pickup at least a 08-12 model year. While the camper usage is the main reason I want a used crew cab diesel it isn't the only. I also pull other things like a 28' tandem dual flat bed with dovetail, 16' thru 24' stock trailers, as well as 18' car hauler. I don't pull everyday but I do often enough that I want a diesel, I'm considering a 1/2 ton only because I am keeping my old 7.3L. However, I'm not sure I want to go with a 1/2 ton at this time either.

From 10/10/15 to 10/10/16 I went without a paycheck, I fell off a ladder and did one hell of a number on my right leg. My wife didn't have a job until July 2016 that grossed about $2400 a month, about the time I could start driving myself to appointments and really didn't need her as much anymore for getting around. We survived that year paying our mortgage and other bills because we hadn't over extended ourselves. We made it off of savings alone with a little help from the church in the way of food staples and my dad provided us with a half of beef. I've been back working almost a full year and while I have a small amount saved for a down payment, I don't have enough for a new truck to where I'd feel comfortable with the monthly payment.

I'm not against a 6.0L but it has to be the right truck, I'm also willing to look at pickups with 100-150K on them but again it has to be the right truck. I'm looking for a mostly stock pickup and have told all the dealers this as well and absolutely no lifts. I do most the maintenance already on my own pickup, but I'm not investing in a bunch of money in specialized tools. If I could find a deal like my buddy I'd be really happy, he scored a 2012 Ford 6.7L 4X4 XL for $27K with 54K on the odometer but deals like those are few and far between.

Based on your statement above, I would avoid a diesel. Deep pockets are sometimes needed with a diesel.

www.powerstrokehelp.com

checkout his videos on youtube

Mike

Do Ford or Chevy diesels have an engine brake? Do the new Dodge 1/2 tons have it? I have one on my Dodge 2500 and love it. It's fantastic coming down a steep hill with curves, running heavy or light.

I believe all of the new HDs with a diesel have an engine brake. I don't know about the Ecodiesel. Some of the 'older' diesels with a VGT turbo can have an engine brake feature written into the ECM program. I have one on my 6.0 and it works surprisingly well; no hardware required.

My neighbor had an '04 Dodge with the 5.9 diesel. It didn't come stock with the engine brake but there's an aftermarket one they can add...for $1400. I think they made them stock in 'late '07 with the 6.7.

I just read on a diesel forum that the Dodge Ecodiesel 'sort of' has an engine brake but its much different from the 6.7. It works with the cruise control. When the cruise is on and you go down a hill, it will automatically shift down to prevent speeding up above the cruise setting. It's not a brake at all but just a computer setting.
It's a far cry from the exhaust brake on the 6.7. they said that if you mess with the exhaust on the ecodiesel trying to add a brake, you'll set off every engine code in the computer.

I've visited his web site while doing research. I've also visited others as well, and one thing I've come to realize is the EPA and CA really have screwed up the diesel industry. The more I learn the more I'm thinking anything built before 08 might be the way to go.

I have a 2006 Duramax that has been a great pickup! I don't farm or log but use the pickup! It pulls my trailer well, has plenty of power, and rides good! Bought in 08 for 22k. Had 27 thousand miles, I believe it's worth that much today! New isn't always the best deal! Mine is stock, I changed all oils in February, when it turned 100 k! I'll keep driving this one until it's worn out!

The older ones with less [bleep] to go wrong specifically emissions related (EGR, DEF , DPF, etc...) are still holding their value fairly well. I wouldn't buy a brand new diesel.

Do a little research on those Ecodiesels, which they have had in Europe for quite a while..

they are Italian Made...

They aren't built to have the durability people think of when they say Diesel.

Google up Ecodiesel issues...also on youtube...

if you can't afford constant repairs, pass it by....

I like the ecodiesel. Not a fan of Dodge in general but the little diesel makes a lot of sense. My neighbor has a 2016. He simply loves it. He claims great fuel mileage and it pulls a hunting trailer with ease. He "chipped" it, whatever that entails.

If you google looking for issues, you'll find them, on anything.

Payload on the eco diesel ram's is literally worse than an Impala. Why buy a truck that 4 passengers and a cooler in the back put over the GVWR?

Lol. No clue what the Impala's payload is, but ya, the Dodge 1/2 tons are all rated pretty low.

If you dont tow much and your trailers or boats weigh less than 8k or so, it looks like a good daily driver with great MPG.
Everything is a compromise somewhere. Just a matter of whats important to you.

I looked when they first came out. Yes, they get passenger car mileage with passenger car payloads to match. They are supposed to tow pretty decent, loads, but again, payload may be an issue when you add the 10-15% tongue weight you are supposed to have. I just hate to see someone get a truck that can't do what they want because they didn't read the specs. But truth be told, most trucks are used as glorified cars, so capability doesn't matter much anyway.

All I do know for sure is I have had two buddies that had the 6.0 and both were ready to toss them off a cliff. It was always something breaking or leaking and half the motor had to be dis assembled to fix. Plus neither had gotten to 150 K yet and had to do complete front ends. YMMV

Just sold a 99 F250SD with the 7.3L and 54k miles today. Guy flew out from portland to buy it and drive it back. That was a beast of a truck. Im not towing a horse trailer anymore, so it will probably be the last diesel I own until Im retired. Diesels are a lot of work to maintain properly, much prefer gas.

I have a 2016 crew cab Eco-Diesel and so far love it for my needs. The mileage is what I really like. But it also rides nice, is quiet, and has good power. I get 24-25 mpg with a mix of city and county roads when driving to work. On the open highway its pretty common to get 27-29 mpg when not loaded heavy and just cruising along.

Hell, it gets almost as good of mileage as the wife's Camry and is nicer to ride in. I've pulled up to 10K with it when towing a trailer loaded with gravel, but I think that was pushing it. I currently don't have anything that needs towed so really can't say how mileage or power is when under heavy load. Mostly I'm just hauling the wife and two adult-sized kids with maybe a 4-wheeler on back or a half cord of firewood for most loads. But that is all I really need to haul at this point.

I have 20K on it now and had a sensor go out at about 12K (under warranty) and oddly enough, the cruise switch had to be pushed hard to engage, but that was covered also.

Just keep looking. Sooner or later you will find a "pavement queen" at a good price.

BTW don't buy one from a Chukar hunter;-)=

Wife has a 2015 1/2 ton Ram with the Eco Diesel. At 40k miles the injectors had been replaced, 5 weeks in the shop for a leaking egr cooler. She tows a 215SS Crownline Boat which is less than 5k, the oll temp will climb to 235-240 when towing. She also tows her 2 horse feather lite loaded w the horses and equipment, and that lill truck does not like to tow heavy. Mileage is okay when not towing 23-25. We are looking for a Ram 2500 w the Cummins. The Eco diesel was made to get descent mileage, not to tow heavy loads.

If you're going to tow a trailer with any regularity, even if it's a relatively light trailer, you'll be so much happier with a 3/4 ton diesel. It's nut just about the torque, the brakes are more robust and the stiffer suspension allows the truck to handle the trailer vs. the trailer to handle the truck.

Duramax and Cummins seem to have an edge on the Ford product. I have an '06 Duramax with 140k on it and haven't had any issues with it. As mentioned, the 3/4 trucks are set up for towing with brakes and cooling systems to match.

Mine has averaged 15.1 mpg all in since I've owned it, mixture of city, highway, towing, hunting.

If you haul heavy loads or trailers, a set of air bags is great. You can deflate them for normal driving, then blow them up when you have a load on. It's the best of both light and heavy springs.

I have them on my 3/4 Dodge. With Dodge, the only difference between the 3/4 and the 1 ton is the springs. All other parts are interchangeable. So, with the air bags, I can blow them up and have 1 ton capacity if I need it.

My 1997 Dodge Cummins was paid off in 1999. Done a lot to it since then. Mucho power, hauls anything, solid in the backcountry, but certainly rides like it, too. 250,000 miles and I have no intention of buying another any time. The wife will probably bury it and me together.

Buy the 3/4 ton truck of your choice, then throw a 12 valve six banger in there.

IF it was me & I was looking for a "forever PU", I'd find a 6.0 Ford with a BAD motor & drop a Cummins 4BT or a 12-valve 6BT into it. =====> You'll get sick of looking at it eventually but you won't wear it out in decades.
(A member of our truck club has over 700,000 miles on a "FUMMINS" that he dropped a 4BT into with a 5-speed ZF.)

yours, tex

A GM truck with the Duramax and the Allison transmission of course.

I looked for a used diesel for quite some time. Nicer stuff was $30-$35k, had 75k miles, and most importantly, NO warranty. Found a new Dodge in the low $40's, with a 5 year/100k driveline warranty. Diesel repairs get expensive FAST. Drive it for 5 years, keep mileage below 100k, get a new one. Lose $10k-$15k on old truck trade, or likely lose $10k repairing old truck when warranty runs out, AND you still have an older truck... The new ones have gotten too complicated.

Note: This doesn't work if you drive optioned out $70k Platinums or Laramies, etc.

Just bought a 2016 Platinum on Thursday at $54k. Has 26k miles on it so 10k miles and 2 years left on warranty, so feeling hopeful we are good for mechanical's for a while.
Last year for steel bodies. They had a new 2018 Pt on the floor at $84k...yikes! That's almost what we paid for our house 30 years ago.
Only complaint is single 26 gallon tank and average fuel economy..
Am used to having dual tanks for 37 gal on my 1997 F-250 with 7.3L. It routinely gets 16-18 mpg...the 6.7's looks like they only get 13-14mpg. Not sure I understand why 7.3 would get better miles than 6.7 and doesn't have the extra expense of the DEF to boot? Maybe 7.3's 5 spd manual over 6.7's auto trans is the difference.
Also looked at a new 2017 Lariat at $62k, with Al body. Not sure I wanted to go there...wonder about durability of Al over Fe metal with off road excursions. Had steel bodies crack due to body torquing from rough uneven trails. Been told Al bodies more costly for body work etc. All that made me cautious.
Enjoying it for now. Time always tells.

That is the ONLY reason I would consider a Ram truck. You can still get a Cummins with a stick.

Why would one give away nearly 10% of their HP and nearly 20% of their Tq to have a manual transmission? 6.7L Cummins w/6-spd manual = 350HP/660Tq. 6.7L Cummins w/6-spd auto = 370HP/800Tq. New autos all offer a "manual" mode allowing you to pick and hold a gear. I like to fancy myself adept with a clutch, but, my 6.7L PSD Ford will ease into a start on slippery ground exponentially better than I've ever been capable of with any manual tranny. Couple that with a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear start at my fingertips and I find the manual hard to love save nostalgia. About the only thing a true manual will do that a newer auto won't is allow an over-rev downshift. I suppose there's a time an place for that but proper planning should negate the need.

and being able to 'rock' them outta a hole/stuck. And coast/pull to start.....

Two years ago I looked at all the brands, Ford, Chevy/GMC, and Ford. Had a Ram 2005 5.9 with a manual that blew a ring at 173,000miles. Was totally paid off years before and was in awesome shape. Lost $10,000 on the resale. Was pissed. Anyway, ended up with another Ram, even with the sour taste still in my mouth. The Chevy had the highest price with the lowest horsepower and torque ratings, plus has some dumb-a$$ looking box under the cab to house some emissions fluid. It was in a prime spot to be ripped off by a rock on a back mountain trail. The Ford had the highest power ratings and was about he same price as the Ram's, but the interior and quality seemed so low. Just felt cheap. Ended up with a 2016 Ram, 2500 6.7 with auto trans. For another $5000 I'd love to have gotten the Aisin transmission, but couldn't justify it. The truck is great quality wise, but I hate, hate, hate the initial acceleration lag. If you step on the throttle, it just sits there for 1-2 seconds deciding if it should go fast or not like you really didn't mean to step on the gas. I'm surprised some digital "Are your sure you want to go fast? Push here for yes" question doesn't come up on the info-screen. I don't like the electronic 4-wheel drive engagement - what happened to the simple pull lever? It's also a bitch to park in the city with the solid front axle. I think I'd have to do a 3-point turn to turn around in a football field. That being said, it tows like a dream. It absolutely does what it was designed to do, extremely well. I've towed with suburbans, jeeps, 1500's, Chevy's, Rams, gas, diesels, just about all the heavy duty trucks, and the truck I have now is by far the best. You can hook up 8500lbs and drive with one finger through the mountains and still have some umph left to pass Subaru's. Highly recommend for towing, highways, big roads. If you need a commuter/city truck, the Ram 2500 diesel is not it.

IME, you could say that about diesel powered HD pickups from any of the big 3. IMO, the only real difference between any of them long-term is which one has the best servicing dealer within a reasonable distance. Unless of course you want a de-rated engine with a manual transmission, then RAM is your huckleberry. Despite my lighthearted jab @ the derating for the manual, 350HP/660Tq is still a great plenty to do what needs done with a pickup.

I have a 2004 Dodge, front end rebuilt at 150,000 and a water pump. 170,000 miles now. I’m gonna buy another 3/4 ton in October. Best truck I’ve ever owned. It will pull my gooseneck plus tractor down the road 80 miles an hour with ease.

The "Dead pedal" issue is well known and documented. It can be minimized with software updates through the dealer, or eliminated with aftermarket programming. My '14 with aftermarket software is now more responsive than my '03 ever was......

Badger - is there something specific to ask the dealer to do on the programming? I had mine in the shop (for one of the several recalls) and asked about the dead pedal. They looked at me like they had no clue what I was talking about and just said "that's the way it is, we can't do anything about that".

With all of the computerized crap on this truck, I got the extended warranty. As much as I HATE the dead pedal, I don't want to void my warranty with aftermarket programming.

Thanks!

Ryan, cumminsforum.com has a lot of info on this. Your dealer is likely unaware of the TSB's that address the dead pedal issue. Do a search on the 4th generation section of the forum and you'll find the info you need.

Great, thanks for the help.

MO2AZ,

Check out http://titanfueltanks.com/products/mid-ship-fuel-tanks for a larger replacement fuel tank on that super duty. We have put several of these in customers trucks and have been a great product every time. A nice thing about these tanks is they fit in the original hole under the bed and they use the factory fuel pump and sending unit, so if you ever have a sender go out on a trip you don't have to wait for some special part to get shipped in. I have also had to get replacement parts for an older Titan tank and the customer service from Titan was second to none. Highly recommended!!

Lots of 2018’s on sale now!

I have an 04 Dodge 3500 rear wheel drive, and the Cummins 5.9 straight six is a hoss and super smooth. ECM went out and was replaced under warranty. I think I remember replacing a front hub with a sealed wheel bearing once. And had the drive shaft rebuilt, which takes a press, because the carrier bearing went out.
And I replaced the very heavy starter, and a couple of batteries.
Also, have mostly worn out a slightly underrated floor jack. I think it has one wheel left on it now.
And it needs a front end alignment. Hopefully not the same rebuild issue as some of the other posters since this is rear wheel drive only. I was quoted $125 for the alignment.

Back to the engine. I have the six speed manual because the Allison was not available at the time. I had a 30k Reese Remove-a-ball gooseneck installed and have pulled 28,000 pounds, or maybe it was a little more, about 36k gross, with no problem. It’ll do 90 miles an hour up hill with the max rated 31k GVWR and not miss a beat.
Can’t imagine the newer bigger motors could be any less powerful.

For normal city driving and maneuvering and parking the dually gets old sometimes. Even though if you’re dogging it, it handles like a twenty foot long sports car that’ll drift through corners just like the little Jap cars in the movies.
For hauling a big trailer it’s a dream. Maybe more than the minimum needed for a travel trailer, but the dually makes for a very comforting feeling for hauling.
The downside of course is when you have to buy tires it’s $1500.

There should be no surprise a Dodge dealership has not a clue about servicing the chit they sell..

Buddy who's a cattleman sold his '18 Dodge diesel after it left him out in the pasture. Seems it has a bunch of sensors, always going off. One day the truck stopped running with sensor lights blaring.

He got a 4 dr. Ford F-350 with an aluminum bed, a gasser. He says he gets 10 mpg or so, and it keeps on running.

The old diesels were great, like the first Cummings, the 7.3L Ford made by International, etc. The new ones...

Well, gasoline is starting to make more sense for that size truck.

DF

Yep Dirtfarmer, I live in farm and cattle country and I’m seeing more and more guys buying 6.0 GMs and 6.2 Ford one tons with bale beds. 15-20 years back when I was farm handing everyone was switching over to diesels for the way they’d pull, no fire danger from catylitic converters in grass or straw, and cheap fuel. Now they’re swinging back to gas for cheaper fuel and increased reliability. I only know one farmer who never switched, he’s still driving a 94 F350 with a 460.

You getting feedback on how the GM 6.0 stacks up against the Ford 6.2.

DF

Not to mention the fact that these ultra low sulfur diesel fuels today just, well......suck. Additives have to be added back to them after refining just to make them "palatable". That and this Blue Def hogwash is the reason I won't own one.

Most of the Ford guys have always been Ford guys and Chevy guys Chevy guys so I don’t get much true to life comparison input. But I’ve heard very little complaining from either camp. The secret to the Ford is ordering or finding one with the 4:30 rear. The standard 3:73s are just to steep to get in and stay in the sweet spot. I’ve had more than one guy tell me they’re like a totally different engine with the lower gears. Doesn’t seem to make any difference mileage wise either, especially for farm driving, short trips, pastures, and what not.

I am not and likely won’t ever be a GM guy. But I admit the 6.0 and whatever tranny combo they have now seems to be pretty solid. I will say I’ve never seen one with a few miles on it that didn’t rattle and clatter on startup and that’s a little off putting. Had a bud with a 4.8 and two with 5.3s that did the same so it must not be too serious since they seem to last a long time.

One guy has a 6.4 gas Ram but he’s a dickhead so I’ve never asked him about it. I’m sure it runs over chevys and pulls fords in half if he is telling it.

That's what happens when you let the government get involved in the automotive industry through completely asinine environmental regulation. It's not the newer engines that are inherently bad, it's the EPA garbage that smothers them and causes 99% of the problems.

.gov could f#@k up an anvil with a Q-tip.

Low speed, low load, and low engine operating temps are the most problematic situations for the '07 and later diesels w/particulate filters. Whomever decided that EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) was a good idea should also have their testes removed via repeated paper cutting sans anesthetic until the job is done.

I think it's more than just the govt. although that's bad enough.

Diesels generally have a rather steep, short torque curve, thus the multiple gears in a big rig.

People like the way a gas engine excellerates, so diesel engines were tweaked to put out a broader torque curve. Evidently that hurts mileage.

I have a friend who for years drove an early Dodge Cummins, the 5.9 L. That truck gave over 20 mpg, he claimed 22 mpg on the road. The Ford 7.3 was a great engine, too. Then Ford went thru a series of "improved" engines, some pretty bad.

The latest diesels have all that EGR stuff, multiple sensors and electronic gadgets and they don't give near the mileage the early ones did. I think part of that was consumer driven, wanting a different torque response. Of course, the govt. made their contribution.

Anyway, they ain't what they used to be...

DF

Given a similar emissions set-up, I think my 6.7L Ford would match or even exceed that old 5.9's fuel economy while delivering significantly more HP/TQ over a wider RPM range and due to reversing the flow and greatly shortened exhaust-gas pathway, would continue to have the throttle response of a gasser.

It will certainly match it. "I may have heard of a guy" who did a full delete on his 2011 or 2012 (can't remember which, whatever year they first began using the "Scorpion" 6.7L as it is referred too at Ford.) "I heard" he did away with the EGR and DPF systems, as well as all of the passive catalyst systems. He has a straight piece of four or five inch pipe from the turbo to the factory exhaust tip. He's running a tuner set to STOCK, only to deal with the missing emissions systems and his PCM.

If you look at truck close, you can notice blackened soot on the stock exhaust tip, which is generally clean on those trucks. As well, even at normal driving, the turbo spooling up and the barking wastegate are clues that something isn't exactly stock.

He claims 18-22mpg, dependent of course upon whether he is running empty or towing, city or highway, etc., etc. I believe him, he's not a the kind of feller to exaggerate much, and I know plenty of older Cummins and 7.3 Powerstrokes that pull that kind of mileage, pre-emissions of course.

"I may have heard of a guy", sorta reminds me of the Viagra commercial where a guy is asking question for "his friend"...

DF

Right!! Same concept, different motives!!

Just sucks that if you buy a new $55-80k pickup you have to void your warranty or take your chances with it leaving you stranded. My uncle drives a 2015 f350 with the 6.7 for work, state vehicle so no mods at all. His emissions system clogged up and crapped out at 20k miles or so and the whole rig shut down, no limp mode or nothing just flat quit. Had it towed to the dealership and they replaced the entire emission system from the turbo to the tailpipe. It was under warranty but billed out at almost $5k.

I may have heard tell, somewhere, that in these parts, diesels where certain parts fell off sell for about $5K more than stock diesels. They said. Who knows?

The new emissions systems work ok as long as the truck is frequently used under heavy load. Idle a lot, pussy foot around a lot and the system will load up with soot and crap out. Drive it like you stole it. Our new Kenworth actually has a smaller motor in it than we would have liked because the smaller motor increases average engine load and that decreases expected down time.

The dealers were loaded with the Dodge Eco Diesels in the Midwest and couldn't sell them. I went to a Ford 6.7 and am well satisfied. More than enough power and very quiet. I pull a 39 foot 5th wheel and a 6X12 trailer with a side by side and it handles it easily. Previously I owned a 7.3 and 2 6 liters. The 7.3 wouldn't handle a 28 foot Montana and it had every toy on it you could imagine. Both 6 liters gave me good service. I wanted more power and did not want to bullet proof my last 6.0 so I traded with no regrets. I stayed with Ford because every other brand in the Midwest was rusted out after several years. I use a 1994 Ford Ranger and a1974 Ford F250 Highboy for hunting.

Most likely way too much time running @ less than full operating temp. Maybe lots of idling time or maybe lots of low-speed use. During my last oil change I asked the service guy about DPF and how long they last as I'm closing in on 130K on mine. He said the only chronically problematic trucks were operated by state DOT and had tons of low-speed/low-temp time and lots of idle time.

Some of you guys are so funny, you like living in the past as if things were made so much better back then, which they weren’t! I owned a 1997 3500 with Cummins, 2001 2500 with Cummins and while those motors were simpler than today’s the trucks had a lot of issues that kept a guy at the dealership regularly. I most recently had a 2014 Ram 2500 with a Cummins , drove it for 3 years and put almost 60,000 miles on it and it never went to the dealership for anything. Regularly got 20+ mpg on the highway and 18 mixed driving. I towed a 8000 lb boat from Central Texas to Venice,La in 100 deg heat several times and got 12-13 mpg and the truck didn’t even know it was back there. When I sold the boat I didn’t feel the need to have a diesel so I sold it. Been running a F150 for the last year and a half and since moving to Colorado I’ve been looking at Cabover campers and after looking at the ultralight campers that fit in the little F150 bed I decided that I want more. Plus I’ve been putting a lot of miles on the truck running all over this state and really didn’t want to end up with a ECO with 100,000 miles in 4 years . So I started shopping diesels again in the last month. GM is out of their mind, a nicely equipped duramax was way more than I wanted to spend. The F250’s in a nice packaged lariat was also quite high and after talking with a few guys that run the newer Ford diesels it seems they have quite a few quirks in their sensory. I ended up at the rams which IMO are at the point now where this 4th gen has had most of its quirks worked out (though I never experienced any in my last one) the Cummins with the 4th gen DEF is really pretty simple and not a hinderance like the DPF crap was. Was able to negotiate a really good price on a loaded Laramie and couldn’t be happier. This was my last nice truck purchase since I’ll be retiring before I’ll have the itch for a new truck, and kinda spoiled myself, never bought a truck that’s got all the goodies this one does. Had it two weeks now and after 1,012 miles of driving it it’s performing awesome! This pic is the readout since new for all my driving.




97 3500 worked hard but always being worked on



2001 Solid truck that ran great but had a mechanic on standby and Alaska winters ate seals from front to back every winter. Front end replaced after every other oil change!



2014 problem free

Well I thought it was time to update the thread. I put a deposit down on an 06 Duramax, if it passes 3rd party inspection it'll be headed my way. One owner (confirmed both by Auto Check and Carfax) just under 140K miles LT3 package, way fancier than I needed but the only truck I was able to get under LTV. Almost broke down and bought a 2013 Ram 2500 with 110K on it for $15K more locally, man it was tough to find anything under $40K once I got 2011 or newer and under 100K miles.

I found the truck in Flint Michigan of all places, paid an extra $350 to have a 3rd party inspection done on it with fluid analysis. If that all passes then I need to find a shipper to have it delivered or a cheap flight to Flint and drive like hell to get back to Colorado. First time I have ever tried to purchase a vehicle off the web, can't tell you how nervous it makes me.

Get lots of photos of the undercarraige. Flint, Michigan you say? More that a good chance it's been in the salt.

It has only been in Flint since July, and from the pictures I got it doesn't have rust issues. It passed inspection with oil analysis, so it's my truck now. I just need to figure out how to get it home.

I just had mine fixed for that ,Accelerator senor (might be wrong in the name) was the cause. $600aftermarket Ekline, Dodge, same maker is $1000

Taylor, I'd just grab a quick flight and go pick it up. Get the hell out of Flint and plan a nice trip back. Good time of year and a good excuse to get out.

Problem with that is I don't have a normal work schedule with normal weekends, and due to family emergencies I'm out of vacation for the year. So flight, lost wages, and diesel will be a wash. I'd like to drive it home and may do it, but it won't be a a nice easy going trip back.

I test drove a brand new 2018 Ram 2500 a week or so ago. Tradesman, crew, reg bed, 4x4.

The base models are nicer than a lot of older fancy trucks. I was shocked how nice the base model Ram was. Only options it had was the chrome appearance package and the Cummins diesel. Sticker was $52 or $55K. I bet some careful shopping would get that truck for mid to low $40's.

I don't know this truck is pretty darn fancy.

That's an 06 or 07, I suppose.