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I prefer the 140 accubond, but loaded up some 120 BT's for my nephew's first rifle, a Remington 700 in 7-08. He's not a very big kid, so I thought I would start him with something that had modest recoil.

Got a moderate load of H380 to shoot the 120's very well, chrono says 2825 fps.

Had him apply for a NR cow permit here in Wyoming last year and he got his first elk with the above set up, about 70 yards, broke the on-shoulder and recovered the bullet just under the hide on the off-side. Did very well, the cow only took about 10 steps, then flipped over backwards and that was that.

You can see the blood on the shoulder, just perfect for a heart shot, which it went directly through.

[Linked Image]

Recovered bullet, didn't weigh it, but went through plenty of bone.

[Linked Image]

My nephew has also taken a deer with the 120 BT's as well, no problems at all. Not a huge sample size, but I talked with plenty of people that have used the 120's and they never had any problems. I see no reason to change things up for a while...

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hooray for that kid, and tip of the hat to you for taking him. look at the fire in his eyes! he can't believe he's an elk hunter now!


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
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Originally Posted by Sycamore
hooray for that kid, and tip of the hat to you for taking him. look at the fire in his eyes! he can't believe he's an elk hunter now!

+1


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In another BT thread in the Reloading forum Mule Deer identified the 120 7MM BT as one of the relatively few with a heavy jacket.

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Not quite. Its one of the BT's with a VERY heavy jacket, comprising around 2/3 of the total bullet weight. Generally these models retain at least 60% of their original weight, even if they lose the lead core. This is apparently what baffles some hunters, because they've long believed any bullet that loses won't penetrate deeply.

But all the "hunting" BT's (as opposed to varmint models) have far heavier jackets than other cup-and-core bullets. Those I've recovered retain around 50% of their weight, give or take 10%--about like the Hornady Interlocks I've recovered.


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I've not sectioned a lot of Ballistic tips. Of the ones I have the .30 180 grain was most impressive. I'd have to say the 150 grain .284 was maybe the least impressive. You fellas have me thinking I should try a few 120s in my 280AI. Might be a real hum dinger. It currently loves 140 TTSXs. Hard to stray from those though.


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Otter,

The thickness of the jacket isn't the entire story. The hardness of the core also affects expansion.

The 7mm 120's and 150's have the same base thickness. Or at least they used to. Bullet manufacturers often tweak their designs.


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This got me curious, so I just sectioned a 120 and 150. The base of the 150 was actually a little thicker than the 120's. though not by much--but the 150's were a batch from a year or two ago, and the 120's a little older.

The 120's might retain a higher percentage of their weight, but the 150's often aren't driven as fast so might retain more.


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Most of you have seen these pictures from the past. I don't know how the picture quality will be now since they had to be made smaller. Yet, this is what a 7mm 120 grain nosler ballistic tip will do to an elk.

Attached Images
Scapula II.jpg (43.57 KB, 373 downloads)
Kim's NM Elk II.jpg (37.31 KB, 342 downloads)
Cow elk scapula, 7mm-08, 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip (235 yard shot)
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How does this bullet perform at lower impact velocities, say around 2200 fps? Enough expansion on deer or antelope on just the rib cage?


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I don't know velocities as I haven't run them through a chronograph, but I am loading the 120 BT's in reduced-recoil loads using 25.5 gr. of R4759 for our daughter's 7mm-08. Accuracy is excellent and the results on deer have been very good even at the lower velocity, I just don't know exactly how fast or slow that is.


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Are those onside and offside scapulas of the same elk or separate animals?


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It was a one shot, broadside, through and through on that cow elk. Between the dime and recovered bullet is the entrance hole. Above the quarter is the hole it left exiting the offside scapula after passing through the elk's chest. Then, the bullet stopped just on the inside of the skin passed the big hole and shoulder muscle.

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"Its one of the BT's with a VERY heavy jacket, comprising around 2/3 of the total bullet weight."

Does anyone have a list of what bullets have the "very heavy jacket"?

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Thought I posted it here, but evidently it was an another thread about Ballistic Tips. These I know about by sectioning bullets: 7mm 120; 165, 168 and 180 .30; 180 8mm; 200 .338. The 200 .338 is now only available in the Ballistic Silvertip version, but despite the black coating and.silver plastic tip, it's the same jacket and core as the plain 200 Ballistic Tip. The 150 7mm also has a pretty heavy jacket, but I don't know if it's 2/3 of the bullet weight.

I would also be pretty sure the newer 220-grain .30 and 300-grain .458 Ballistic Tip and Ballistic Silvertip bullets also have very heavy jackets.

All of this could change. Nosler didn't make any major announcement about beefing up the jackets of the 165-180 .30 calibers. Instead they just went ahead and did it, because so many hunters insisted on hunting larger game with those bullets. But the 200-grain .338 was introduced in the early 1990's, and had the very heavy jacket from the beginning. I know this because Nosler sent me some to test back then. I shot some side-by-side with 210 Partitions into dry newspaper, my standard heavy-duty media for testing bullets, and the 200 BT's penetrated about 90% as deeply as the 210 Partitions. Next I tested them on big game, mostly larger than deer, and they penetrated very deeply. In fact the only one I recovered was several years later, when I shot a mature gemsbok bull, weighing around 450 pounds, in the right shoulder as it quartered strongly toward me. The bullet was recovered from under the hide of the left ham, retaining 59.4% of its weight.

The very heavy-jacket .30's and the 180 8mm are constructed the same way. There was also a very brief period when Nosler made 225 .358, 250 9.8 and 260 .375 Ballistic Tips, but soon after they were introduced Nosler changed them into AccuBonds. However, even when not bonded the 260 .375 still penetrated very well. I field-tested it in Africa on a cull hunt in 2002, loaded to around 2700 fps from a .375 H&H. Among other things it shot lengthwise through springbok, and broke both shoulders of a gemsbok bull weighing 550 pounds on a certified scale--in both instances exiting.

One of the interesting aspects of all this while Nosler was introducing these initial heavy-jacket Ballistic Tips, a lot of hunters continued to believe they would "blow up," because they were Ballistic Tips. Of course, those hunters never tried them.


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Excellent!
Thank you, sir!

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Some of them do indeed have a lot of heavy jacket in the construction. I shot a deer a few years ago quartering hard away and the 168gr .30cal NBT would up in the neck, just under the hide. When I cut the hide, the jacket was there, with some of the lead core lying next to it. The remaining jacket weighed 69gr, which is a little over 40% of the original bullet weight, and this is after expansion, so I'd not be surprised if that bullet is actually close to 50/50 jacket/core. It's a great performer on deer and hogs at .308win speeds.


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Is there a certain grain 6.5mm ballistic tip with a thicker jacket that any one knows about?

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Originally Posted by dogzapper



DELETED





Ok I have to ask what was deleted? And why/who deleted it.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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My lovely wife shot this big cow last November using a standard 280 with 150gr ballistic tip.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by 79S; 08/15/17.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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